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PPPoE over Ethernet over IP Network

Posted on 2001-07-30
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Last Modified: 2008-02-01
Hi all,

Is the following configuration feasible?
1. End user with PPPoE clietn and Ethernet connection to HUb
2. Multiple PPPoE session connected to a Router via a shared Ethernet
3. Router connected to Remote BRAS via a IP Network (either a multi-hop network or IP VPN/L2TP)


PC1--PPPoE-\
PC2--PPPoE---HUB---Router--(IPVPN/L2TP)--BRAS
PC3--PPPoE-/
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Question by:tomyu99
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25 Comments
 

Expert Comment

by:digized
ID: 6365171
Yes, it is feasible?
Are you having a problem?
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Expert Comment

by:HDWILKINS
ID: 6395793
PPPoe is a nightmare.

Put a Linksys router between your DSL Modem and the hub.  Let it provide DHCP and everyone will have access to the Internet.  I should cost you less than $100 bucks.  Look at www.linksys.com

Harry
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Expert Comment

by:frazell
ID: 6405413
didnt fully get your wuestion lol but its possible heres my setup with WinPOET (uses PPPoE)

PC1 - Winodws 2000 PRO Connected w/ PPPoE
PC2 - Windows 2000 Adv. Server Connected w/ PPPoE
Westell DSL Modem Set To Auto Dail In Using PPPoE To Provide Firewall, DCHP, and NAT To The Network

All connected to one HUB u can have unlimited PPPoE connections ;)
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Expert Comment

by:HDWILKINS
ID: 6406814
frazel - how do you get by duplicate logins with your ISP?
Also, none of the Westell modems that I've used supply DCHP or NAT?  As far as I know, they are designed for one user, one login setups - unless you use a Linksys??

Harry
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Expert Comment

by:frazell
ID: 6406862
Well the westel modems are compatible ( http://www.westell.com ), u must use thier software called WebShare it has NAT, DCHP, Firewall, Etc. Multiple logins is supported by PPPoE its within the standard (Though a ISP can customize that).
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Expert Comment

by:svdamme
ID: 6463909
you can have multiple connections if you have multiple accounts from your provider.. no problem there but i don't see the use for it since bandwith will be limited to the ADSL line

The only reason for this i guess would be to overcome the down/up load limit wich as far as i know isn't enforced by most ISP's
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Expert Comment

by:frazell
ID: 6464120
Maybe many providers have limited the amount of simultaionous connections from one account. But if your ISP uses WinPOET im quite sure you can do multiple logins. As always you can call your ISP and ask, also see if your modem supports that software from westell let me know how it goes;).
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Accepted Solution

by:
The--Captain earned 300 total points
ID: 6473920
Don't know why everone is arguing about whether or not he can get multiple accts.  That has nothing to do w/ the original question.  How do you know he doesn't want to set up the PPPoe server himself?

tomyu99 - Yes, it is feasible.  It is almost the same network model used my most boneheaded DSL providers (sorry, I hate shared segments.)

tomyu99 - does that answer your question?

-Jon
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Expert Comment

by:Moondancer
ID: 6954374
tomyu99 -->  Please update and finalize this question, as well as the same one you posted in another.

Experts, please guide me here on closing this if Asker does not respond within the next seven days.

Thanks,
Moondancer - EE Moderator
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Expert Comment

by:HDWILKINS
ID: 6963444
Moondancer, I don't think what he wants to do is possible unless he puts in a router and lets the router handle the PPPoe.

HW
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Expert Comment

by:The--Captain
ID: 6965066
HDWILKINS is incorrect - this is quite feasible - the router just has to be able to pass the traffic properly to BRAS.  

HDWILKINS - why do you think it will not work, specifically?

I nominate myself for the points, since no one else seems to care except HDWILKINS, and he seems confused.

Cheers,
-Jon

BTW, moondancer - can you ask Jan whatever happened WRT EOW?  I sent my picture like they asked (admittedly a bit late), but so far, no dice - maybe triskelion's term as EOW just has to expire (bummer, since I had already prepared myself for a wonderful roasting in the lounge).

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by:The--Captain
ID: 6965072
Oh yeah - As #2 expert in this TA (isn't pulling rank fun?), I second my nomination for these points hehe

-Jon

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Expert Comment

by:Moondancer
ID: 6966567
Sent the EOW request in for you to get update.

Since you and HW were only respondents here, does a point split to you both sound fair?

Moondancer - EE Moderator
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Expert Comment

by:The--Captain
ID: 6966972
Sigh - I guess so, although it pains me to see someone who is incorrect get points - if the router can forward (read: bridge) ethernet frames, then the diagram as presented should be able to work.

-Jon

BTW, thanks for giving the heads up to Jan...
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Expert Comment

by:Moondancer
ID: 6969708
Reread this the 5th time and finalized; off for a couple of days to clear the head.  Thanks to all for their help here.
Moondancer - EE Moderator
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Expert Comment

by:HDWILKINS
ID: 6972599
I'm sorry, I didn't get back to you sooner.

I will accept your wisdom if you tell me that you have done it or have had direct contact with someone that's done it.

My experience with PPPoe is that it offered by Telco ADSL providers.  

Please explain to me a senario where any one client on a hub (assuming the other clients are all on the same sub-net) would have access to PPPoe.  Who would be serving up the IPs.  

Maybe I'm just not thinking big enough?  I just can't begin to guess how anyone that purchased a PPPoe connection would get that through the hub without a router handling the PPPoe and providing a set of non-routable IPs for the rest of the network.  (Unless you were a telco because under any other senario, I can't see why anyone would use PPPoe.)

Harry

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Expert Comment

by:The--Captain
ID: 6972639
Sigh - I knew this would degenerate into "how do I do that" instead of just "is this feasible".  If you need me to connect the dots, so be it.

>Maybe I'm just not thinking big enough?  

Exactly.  The problem is you are trying to relate to existing configurations that you have seen, instead of the underlying possibilities.  You are trying to tie PPPoe to ADSL, when there is no direct relationship between the technologies.  AFAIK, DSL routers generally use ATM connections back to the telco.  This allows the router to send anything it wants [read: is configured to do] (including ethernet frames for PPPoe).  Once ethernet frames arrive from various ATM DSL connections, you may indeed see exactly the kind of config presented above (and again below).  You are thinking client-side...  Think provider-side...

PC1--PPPoE-\
PC2--PPPoE---HUB---Router--(IPVPN/L2TP)--BRAS
PC3--PPPoE-/


"PC" could mean "Public Connection", and have telco gear on the other side.  No reason they couldn't be PCs, as well - just depends on how you want to build out the network, and what your service demands are.

-Jon


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Expert Comment

by:The--Captain
ID: 6972640
I guess my point is that there is very little that is possible on the LAN that is not possible on the WAN, and vise-versa, if you are willing to pay enough for equipment.

-Jon



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Expert Comment

by:HDWILKINS
ID: 6972663
Jon,

I think my first question to you was, have you ever done this?  and I guess I'd like to here from TommyU99 about what his application is.

I will grant you that a Telco or an entity like a Telco can do this, (anything can be done with a bucket of money) but in the normal everyday world??  Can you think of any senario where this would be done?  And why would anyone do it? (Other than a telco?)

Why, in the real world, wouldn't you just put in a $75 router that supported PPPoe on the Wan side and let it provide IP and DHCP to the Workstation side.

I'm not trying to be a pain about this, I just don't understand the who or the why?

Harry
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Expert Comment

by:HDWILKINS
ID: 6972667
I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is a question like "Can man go to Mars"?  Well the answer to that question is yes, but not in my lifetime..  Is it dooable, yes, is it done, no.  

Or, are you saying that PPPoe is used (served up to clients) by entities other than Telcos?

Just trying to learn about something I guess I don't know about.

Harry
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Expert Comment

by:The--Captain
ID: 6973751
I got out of the corporate ISP game (now I consult for them and other well-connected businesses) right before DSL was rolled out in the area, but AFAIK, the diagram as initially presented is one way that telcos can resell DSL service to ISPs, without having to actually give up right of way or sell copper (the diagram would indicate the telco connection to the ISP).  Telcos typically handle the DSL lines, but I imagine PPPoe is used so that the client can still authenticate to whatever ISP they buy internet access from.

Think of it this way - router at telco DSLAM, BRAS at ISP who is providing bandwidth

If you ever saw a diagram of T1 and DS3 muxes and cross-connects, you would probably be confused by the concept of a T1 as well, but it's really not that complex.

This is the last thing I'm going to say on the subject - may I suggest a bit of personal research on your own?

-Jon
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Expert Comment

by:HDWILKINS
ID: 6974990
I think you answered my question.  It isn't done in the real world outside telcos and you've never done it.  

Thanks.

Harry
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Expert Comment

by:The--Captain
ID: 6975480
Correct and correct.

Cheers,
-Jon
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Expert Comment

by:The--Captain
ID: 6975500
Sorry if I was breaking your balls a bit - this question was kinda like asking if it is possible to fly a plane - sure it is, and although I've never done it, I might even me able to pull it off (badly) in a pinch.

Cheers,
-Jon
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by:HDWILKINS
ID: 6980589
No problem here, its been fun.

Harry
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