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cd-rom problem w/ pnp bios off

well, ok. here's my prob:

- i've installed w2k w/ bios setting "pnp os = yes".

- i've installed linux.

- the sb live! didn't work.

- problem was, that emu10k1 can only detect sb live! correctly, when pnp is set to "no" in bios.

- when starting w2k now, i can't read cd's any more.

- switching back to bios setting "pnp os = yes", w2k will read the cd.

- there's no chance to get sb live! running w/ "pnp os = yes".

so.

how can i make w2k read cd-roms properly w/ bios setting "pnp os = no" ?

should i delete the drive devices from device manager and reinstall'em?

should i kill pnp driver from device manager?

do i have to reinstall w2k with bios setting "pnp os = no" in order to have it correctly installed?

i dunno.

please help quick.

mayb it's simple, mayb not.
if i wasn't in a situation where i do need both systems stable rite now, i'd try a little bit. but since i dunno if there are consequential problems when killing the devices in device manager, i'm asking you, experts.

therefore, this q is worth 200.

regards,

BlackDeath.
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BlackDeath
Asked:
BlackDeath
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1 Solution
 
kahleanCommented:
did you cdrom is succesfully displayed during the POSt bootup. If the cdrom is displayed in the bootup table, then it should be fine. As a suggestion, at the standard cmso setup, set primary master, slave, secondary master and slave to auto, let bios detect the cdrom.

REgards
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
;-)

that's not quite the kinda support i've hoped to recieve.

of corze everything is set up fine.

as i said:

when i set "pnp os" in bios to yes, everything's ok.
when i set "pnp os" in bios to no, the cd's can't be read any more.

if it were as u assumed, it wouldn't work in either case.
but it does. with pnp os = yes.

any other suggestions?
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SysExpertCommented:
As a test, I would Install win2k into a Seperate directory with PNP = Off and see if this works, Then you will have a quick answer.

I hope this helps !
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
yeah right.

pretty quick eh?

;-)))

guys, i want some constructive suggestions.

i mean, whaddaya think?

e.g.:

q: i get a blue screen when open the cd tray while playing diablo. where's the problem?

a: get yourself another copy of diablo

or

a: get yourself a new pc

or

a: reinstall windows

hey guys - no harm meant, but do you really think i'd spend 200 pts for the suggestion "install w2k another time"?

i know, you don't wanna play me for a sucker, neither do i.
but please, be a little bit more serious, ok?

i wanna know what's the problem.
i don't wanna kick in the waste and run into it another time, just by not knowing the reasons, you understand?

thanx for listening. please forgive me for being rude and gimme another suggestion.
i'd really appreciate.

BlackDeath.
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
apparently in this section a serious answer is a little bit more expensive... ;-)
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SysExpertCommented:
BlackDeath : Sometimes there are no quick answers.

Here are some more things to test.

1) Check that there are no IRQ conflicts.

2) do a Start - run - SFC to check the system files.

3) Get the SP2 patch and any other relevant updates from windowsupdate.com

4) Get the latest drivers for ALL of your hardware and the newest BIOS.

The PNP option normally does NOT make a difference for IDE unless you are using a second IDE controller in your machine.
If the BIOS can identify the drive, then win2k should also !

I hope this helps !
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dew_associatesCommented:
BD,

Let's begin at the beginning and straighten that box out. First, SB Live should detect the EMU either way, but most assuredly though it should work with PnP set to yes in the Bios.

This could be caused by either or both of two things, the Bios for the MB is outdated, and you're using the original SB Live drivers from the Creative CD. Flash update the Bios and then clear the CMOS and set the Bios to its defaults and use PnP yes! Blow out the old Win2000 install and start fresh, but this time use the new driver sets available from Creative for Windows 2000. **This is a known problem with SB Live and Win2k.

After this, we'll straighten out any leftover problems.

Dennis
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
to sysx:

1) no conflicts (irq, dma, i/o, whatever)
2) i'll do (but i don't expect wonders)
3) already done
4) already done

to dew:

1) problem is the other way round: alsa/emu10k1 detects sb live but wants to hook it to irq 0 (!) - of corze that causes a failure
2) fact is: sb does not work under linux with pnp yes; sb does work under linux with pnp no; sb does work under w2k either way
3) bios is latest available phoenix bios for mobo sfc d1064
4) sb is working fine under w2k, so why should i replace'em? is it possible that they affect the ide-controller when pnp is set to no? i don't think so.

one point is that the sb card is being hooked to irq 7 by w2k when using pnp. that's not too nice, since it's sharing w/ lpt1. all parport actions lead to cracking sounds.  

mayb for that reason i'll give it a try and see if there are sb drivers newer than those i already use.

i want to get back to the point: what does this all have to do with cd-rom-drive being able to read cd's or not?

i mean, it can't be a general ide problem, because there ain't no prob with my harddisks at all.

mayb my configuration helps you further:

mobo sfc d1064
pII400 deschutes bx400
hercules nvidia geforce 2 mx
sb live!
1.ide:
  channel 0: samsung 30gb dma master by jumper
  channel 1: fujitsu 6gb dma slave by jumper
2. ide:
  channel 0: samsung dvd pio master by jumper (windows states dma, but that can't be, cause philips can run pio 4 max)
  channel 1: philips cd-rw pio slave by jumper

anything of interest i've forgotten?

what now?

BlackDeath.
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
btw:

i've been to creative's home page and had a look @their latest drivers which came out to be live!ware 3.0.

i do have them installed already.

i think it may be worth a try and explicitly assign a pci slot irq to sb card and then tell alsa to use the appropriate i/o, irq and dma settings...

if i get the bastard running on linux this way, my w2k-problem is gone.

but anyway, i'm not through with this. i wanna know why the stupid d*** shows this behaviour.

to say it w/ tim curry's words:

"so i remove the cores and not the .... symptoms"

;-)

BlackDeath.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Sure, plenty.

Move the 6g to IDE #2 as a master and the DVD as a slave to IDE #1.

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dew_associatesCommented:
If you're getting an IRQ assignment for SB Live of 7, then that's a Bios reporting issue, which is probably being caused by the switching back and forth between PnP yes and PnP no.
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
ah.

if i move the 6g to ide 2, it'll run in pio, cause the philips cdrw will be slave to it. if i remember right, the 2nd ide channel can't address its peripherals in different modes.

as a consequence, linux will perform bloody bad, cause it's installed completely on the 6g.

i assume "sure, plenty" refers to "anything forgotten" ?
well, i think nothing of interest.

what's missing?
ok, monitor sni 1706 ntd, logitech mouse and iomega zip usb.
latest drivers/inf of corze.

all other hardware not listed above is driven by native ms.
e.g.: hp820c, keyboard, well, what else?

no modem, no isdn, no scanner, no joysticks, no pads, no wheels, no dat, no ieee, no whatever...

the problem w/ irq 7 existed before switching pnp to no.
i.e.:

after flashing the newest bios i've installed w2k (merely 4 weex ago, quite fresh the little bug) bios pnp has been set to yes that time. sb live has been hooked on irq 7.

b4 i forget: it has been irq 7 before the bios update, too.

hm.

BlackDeath.
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
apart from that:

the primordial problem remains the same:

why is it that the cd-drives (both are affected) can't read cd-rom's when switching pnp from yes to no?

what the heck is goin on in the system...

BD
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dew_associatesCommented:
If you're looking for an instant fix, you're not going to find it. I can only tell you from an enginerring and developers standpoint works and what doesn't. If, OTH, your not interested, just let me know and I'll move on to another Q.
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SysExpertCommented:
Try moving the SB card to a different slot or removing it temporarily to test to see if it is causing the problem in wn2k.

Are there any motherboard drivers needed for your machine ?

One last thing to try.

Clear the CMOS NVRAM using the jumper on the MB.

I hope this helps !
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
sorry, dew.

maybe you've got a wrong impression.

i'm into computers for 15 years now.
i'm installing up to 3 machines per month for people wanting to perform video editing, midi sequenzing, gambling their mind out whatever.

most recently i've spent 2 weeks setting up an amd1000C on asus a7v133 w/ 686b southbridge @a time the famous bug wasn't known yet and the whole thing with a bloody pinnacle studio dv. at least, i came out with a running system - after setting up each and every fart manually.

apart from that i'm a system's engineer for 13 years now, meanwhile having spent nearly 3 years in administration.

it's not that i'm a bloody rookie, you know.

it's just that i've got the heck no explanation for this phenomenon and, first of all, i ain't got no time for playing around with this machine.

if there ain't no other way to find out, i'll just twist it the way it works and that's it for the time being.

but i'll be after the core of the problem.
i posted this q here in x-x cause i've made the experience that in delphi section, there are some really good guys always being ready to look for a solution of abnormal problems.

i appreciate your help very much, dew - and i hope we can find this together, cause it's not a normal behaviour.

and i'm really interested in finding out.

i'll raise the points another time in order to show my willing to get this done.

it's not a matter of time anymore, i think. more of success.

okeydore, let's go for it.

regards,

BD.
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
sysx:

>>Try moving the SB card to a different slot or removing it temporarily to test to see if it is causing
the problem in wn2k.

-- c above

>>Are there any motherboard drivers needed for your machine ?

-- nope, it ain't no via buggy ;-) it's a plain old pII/bx/siemens mobo combination running smooth and steady since aeons ;-)

>>Clear the CMOS NVRAM using the jumper on the MB.

-- i won't do that, because that is in no way an adequate action for this problem.

thanx anyway, i'll take your suggs into account when assigning the points.

BD.
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
lezz diggit!
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dew_associatesCommented:
Okay, let's start with the MB. What is it capable of and does it have any problems of its own.

Is the IDE Bus capable of ATA 66 or just 33. Most BX based boards are 33, so you shouldn't be taking a performance hit by moving the drives around.

I might also try moving the SB Live card, although I'd try and get it to a non-shared slot though.
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
mobo: like all siemens mobo's it's capable of - just plain nuthin. it's been designed for running stable. no overclocking: no chance to change the fsb; it runs hard at 100. PLL is integrated into 440bx.
CPU: PII deschutes. no chance to change the multiplier; hard at 4.
cpu type: 0 (original oem processor)
family: 6
model: 5
stepping id: 2
-> (0,25? / 2,0V) core voltage. 4gb cacheable area.

there isn't and has never been any problem w/ it. it's just - running.

ide runs ata 33. but nevertheless i can't hang it together w/ cdrw, since this one runs pio 3 (the pio 4 above was a typo!)

yep - moving the sb from slot 4 to 3 might solve the problem w/ irq7 - dunno. i've had a terratec and a matrox before. the i've changed both to sb live! and geforce2mx at the same time. since the hercules prophet 2 mx is passively cooled, i didn't wanna use slot 3 for sb (2 near to gpu) but mayb i just put in a slot fan.

(is it called like that? slot fan? i'm from germany, you know, therefore i don't know too much of the proper english expressions. i think you know what i mean. just a slot fan...) ;-)

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dew_associatesCommented:
Well the biggest thing right now is getting it running, then we can work out the rest. Give it a shot and see.
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
p.s.:

you'll ask - why did he flash the bios when the bo is running that smooth?

a: i hoped to find a way to get the fsb running @133.
but there ain't no chance. blocked & bolted. and since the PLL is integrated i can't even make out the manufacturer of that thing so i won't succeed with softfsb or any other patcher.

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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
err - that should have been ,25 micro. the character has been changed to ?; i assume character set is responsible for faulty display.
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
ok - i'm off now and i'll give it a try.

too bad it's not as simple as killing a bottle of beer...


;-)))

dew - thanx so far, cu2morrow.

l8r, BD.
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
ok - i'm off now and i'll give it a try.

too bad it's not as simple as killing a bottle of beer...


;-)))

dew - thanx so far, cu2morrow.

l8r, BD.
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
NeXTSTEP
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
it seems as if i can't raise points above 300...
have tried for the 2nd time now - stays at 300. we'll solve that problem l8r...

bye,

BD.
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AvonWyssCommented:
Hey BlackDeath

I have a couple of suggestions:

* IRQ 7 problem: Windows 2000 by default chooses not to use the IRQ assigned to the parallel port for whatever reason. You can change this behaviour by choosing to always use the IRQ in the parallel port's settings in the device manager. By this, IRQ 7 will no longer be "free" and the sound card will be assigned another IRQ.

* CD-Rom Problem: You wrote that Windows displays it as DMA device even though the drive supposedly does not support it. Try to force it to PIO mode; devices not capable of DMA just do not work when they're addressed using DMA, so this could be the explanation.

* The thing with the second IDE channel being an ISA device / not allowing mode selection / [much more] is a myth for most mainboards - probably also your BX board. However, it's not a myth that slow devices can block the IDE bus when not idle and thus slow down the performance of the other attached device on the same cable. Thus it's not a good idea to put a slow and a fast device on the same cable, and because of this I do not agree with the given suggestion of putting one hard disk and CD per controller but would leave them as they were initially.

Hope this helps - a guy from the Delphi section... ;-)
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dew_associatesCommented:
How ya makin out BD?
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
first i wanna apologize for not taking a step in here yesterday. i've just had too much things to cope with here in office.

hi avon - nice to meet ya here.

re: irq 7 problem: good suggestion, never thought of that.

yarr - the problem w/ pio/dma...

it's a really funny behaviour: the dvd rom on ide2 port1 master is probably running pio (due to the fact that ide2 port2 slave is cd-rw pio3, but i dunno) but i marked the controller to be dma-capable because otherwise powerdvd is *creeping* through the frames of a movie. i've been flabbergasted when i saw that the dma setting made the movie run smooth, even though the slow cd-rw was hooked to the same channel and thus should block the transfer.

but maybe it's just as you mentioned - as long as idle it doesn't interfere. who knows?

possible that the problems come fromn that config.


i think a really good solution will be to get another cd-rw. i've been thinking of the new ricoh. yes, i will.

dew - regarding my progresses:

i've got it now.

what i've done:

i've changed sb live! location from slot 4 to 3. (4 is linked to usb, that's a prob, cause when explicitly assigning an irq via bios to that slot it will be grabbed by usb and thus arbitrarily assigning sb another irq.

3 is fine. now. remember: i didn't wanna use it cos too near to agp - hercules with passive cooling - overclocked from 175/183 to 185/200 core/ram.
(that really comes out with 5-10 additional fps on my poor old pII - believe it or not... ;-))

with respect to a proper config i cancelled the overclocking in order to not let the gf2 produce too much heat, thus was able to use slot 3, put the sb in there, set bios irq assignment for slot C to irq 5, and -

emu10k1 on linux finds the sb even with bios pnp=yes.

finally.

this way i don't have to bother w/ the problem of cd-drive not reading cd-roms when bios pnp=no.

okeydore - that's it.

but, the question remains:

why is it that the cd isn't readable when pnp=no.

avon - do you think the dma setting is the reason?

what i'll do next (just for fun) is:

remove cd-rw, set bios pnp=no and look if dvd can read cd.
if so, ok, that's it.

if not:
remove dma setting from ide port 2, with bios pnp=no and look again if dvd can read cd.

if not, i'll give up.

if yes, replug cd-rw.
if ok, it's been dma setting. (f*** it)

if not, it's been a problem w/ cd-rw/dvd.

anyway, this is just cosmetics.
the system is running fine now.

i'll get myself an active cooling attachment for gf2, put it back to 185/200 and that's it for the little marble.

next machine i'm gonna get into will be hp e-pc c10, pIII 1ghz, i815E.
i'm really looking forward to it, i like that thing.
it's absolutely totally un-noisy. highly integrated. small. small. small.

that noise is what i'm suffering most from when dealing w/ all those giga athlons.

so guys - whaddabout the points?

my suggestion:

50 pts to sysx
150 pts to dew
100 pts to avon

whaddaya think?

if you all agree i'll ask darinw to split the points.

bye,

BlackDeath.


yeah, i will leave my hard disks together at ide1, else i can go to sleep. ;-)

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dew_associatesCommented:
Okay BD, I guess it's up to you now! Just let me know and I'll ask a moderator to make the changes.

Dennis
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ComTechCommented:
Hi BlackDeath, you left this in Community Support for darinw.  He does not participate often in CS as much, as he has other duties.

I will take care of the split for you.

This is a three way split on a 300 point question, you're request is:

50=SysExpert
100=AvonWyss
150=dew_associates

I will reduce your points here to 150 and you can accept dew_associates for that award.

Then you will need to create a 100 point question for AvonWyss, and a 50 point question for SysExpert.  

The questions should be posted in this Topic Area, entitled *Points for ????? on the other two Experts and In the comment box, leave a comment such as *For your help with my question # 20163883*  Then leave the appreiate number of points for each ecpert. (Please do not forget to leave an A grade)

Thanks,
ComTech
Comunity Support
Moderator

Ps. If you have any questions, feel free to ask either here or the CS question.
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dew_associatesCommented:
Thanks BD!
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ComTechCommented:
BlackDeath, are you having problems? I will help if you like.  I have not seen the posts for the other two Experts.

ComTech
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
hi, com.

i just arrived at my machine.
i'm gonna take care about it right now.

thx 4 help,

bye, BlackDeath.
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
com - apparently you accepted dew's answer for me. did you grade him A?

BD.
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BlackDeathAuthor Commented:
whoops - SysX:

due to old habits i went directly to delphi section and posted the points for you there instead of w2k section.

please go to Delphi Programming section and collect your pts there, ok?

sorry.

BD.
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