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Slow browse speed with Netware 5.1

Posted on 2001-08-10
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Last Modified: 2008-02-01
Recently we upgraded our 7 servers from Netware 4.11 to 5.1.
Now it seems that the browse speed is really slow.  For example.
When we use "run" and browse to the server
\\cg_lan3
Sometimes it takes 30 seconds to see the volumes and printers in that server.
Is there something about explorer and Netware 5.1 or ??????
Will appreciate any help.
Scott
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Question by:scottinmesa
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by:geoffryn
ID: 6373848
Are you connecting to the 5.1 servers over IP?   Do you also have an NT domain? The problem is probably name resolution.
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6374381
Were connecting to the 5.1 Servers using W2K machines with IPX as the default protocol.
Browsing to the UNC name of the server, for example : \\cg_acad2 takes a long time.
Were using the Novell 4.8 client on the workstations.
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by:geoffryn
ID: 6374453
2000 uses DNS as the default name resolution, your clients are having to timeout and then use bradcast to find the server
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by:DSPoole
ID: 6391279
Check out your NetWare Client32 configuration - Protocol Properties tab - verify that IPX is set to your default (preferred) protocol.

Also - verify that the Microsoft-supplied client for NetWare was properly removed from the Services in Control Panel (Administrative Tools) - if not, set the startup of that service to Disabled.

I had to do those two things to my Win2K Pro boxes - solved a lot of problems.

Seriously consider what geoffryn has to say about Win2K and DNS - then if you have a DNS server, add a lookup (A record) and reverse lookup (PTR) of your NetWare server in there.  If you don't use a DNS server then make the neccessary modifications to your Win2K Pro HOSTS file.
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by:d50041
ID: 6393370
listening
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6393780
Whew -
First of all thanks for all the input.  Let me try and respond to the suggestions:
1) I'm hoped that by going into My Network places, Advanced, advanced by changing the  Provider Order and setting "Netware Services" to the top it would change the default name resolution suggested by goeffryn.
2) I reinstalled the 4.8 client with IPX only and added the client service pack 3 available from Novell.  Later I checked the client properties and made sure that IPX was the default protocol.
3) I didn't see the "Microsoft Client for Netware" service so I think I'm safe there.
4) We use a DNS server. I can do numeric as well as reverse lookups.
Browse speed is improved somewhat but 18-20 is still a long time.
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by:squidfishes
ID: 6414151
You could also try manually setting the frame type to 802.2 or whatever you're using instead of auto detect.  And you could set a preferred server as well, so the client doesn't have to look for one.

Here's a possibility too...

http://support.novell.com/cgi-bin/search/searchtid.cgi?/10052031.htm
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6491752
Well, I'm leaning more and more towards a server side issue vs. client side issue.  I tried changing frame type to 802.2, ethernet _ii and 802.3 without sucess.
The reason I'm thinking it's a server issue is that on some servers I can "UNC path browse" in 3-4 seconds vs. 45+ seconds now on other servers.
I just don't know what the dynamics of this browse function are...... and what variables on the server might change it.
(thanks for all the suggestions)
Scott
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by:JimBb
ID: 6604963
Have you checked this one on Microsoft's support?

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q269/5/90.ASP

Jim
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by:d50041
ID: 6605133
If the clients are only runing IPX then I would think DNS would not be relevant. DNS resolves host names to IP addresses.  Why not load IP on the NW5 servers and try one client with IP only on the client, use either DNS or the HOSTS file and see if this client does not perform the searches musch quicker.  Using IP only on my client, and having both NW5.1 and NT4 servers, we can browse very quickly, instantly in fact, even for the NW server on the other side of the WAN link.
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6625150
So far (as of today)
I have followed-up on JimBb's answer to locate the latest mstask.dll 5-14-200. I wrote an e-mail to Microsoft to see if they would give it to me in advance of the service pack.
If it works then at least the Win2K machines would be happy.
Will keep you posted.

Will follow-up with d50041

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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6627851
OK - I got the MSTASK.DLL download from Microsoft and installed it on the Win2k PC, Checked the default protocol (IP) on the Netware 3.31 client and made sure tcpip was loaded on the Novell Server. The \winnt\system32\drivers\etc\hosts file does contain the servers addresses.

Yikes - still a long time ( 62 seconds in one case)  to browse to the server & display volumes.

Hmmmmmmm

DO appreciate the attempts ......
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by:d50041
ID: 6631453
I'm confused. Does the WIN95/98 workstation that client 3.31 is loaded on have the servers in the c:\Novell\Client32\hosts file??  Did you remove the client using UNC32 and reinstall IP only??

Are your problems with WIN2k machines or WIN95/98 machines or both??  You started this thread discussing client 4.8 on WIN2000 boxes and then your last post said you were using client 3.31 which is a WIN95/98 client.

Do you do any drive mappings in login scripts??  I like to select the preferred server in the Advanced TAB on the client login GUI and leave the Tree and Context blank.  Then I login in to a preferred server but also map to other servers using "If Member of..." statements.  Seems to work well and login and browing are very fast.
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6636336
The browse speed issue affects Win 95/98 and W2K.  Started with a generic statement then narrowed it down - for the sake of simplicity to W2K.
 ( Hence the  \winnt\system32\drivers\etc\hosts  file mentioned on 11/08 )

My posting of 8/16 10:06 details the installation of client 4.8 (W2K) with service pack 3.
(remove using UNC32 though ???)

Yes, we use drive mappings (to multiple servers) and login scripts which work correctly.  I set the preferred server only while removing the tree and context entries in the advanced tab of the client GUI as you suggested. However browse speed (for instance) to one server is still long 60+ seconds to one server and 20 seconds to another.  Both are in same physical  room.

To browse I do the following:
Start, run, ( server name ) ie:  \\cg_lan3   or \\cg_acad2,   enter.
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by:DSPoole
ID: 6637004
I don't know why this would affect Win9x - but I have seen this issue on WinNT/2K boxes - if they don't need to communicate with an NT Domain, why not just shut down (Control Panel - Services) the Computer Browser service (disable it and reboot) - I think you also have to shut down the Server service as well.

From what it sounds like, the workstation is broadcasting it's services every time you try a network function.

I know this wasn't a NetWare upgrade issue - just got done doing a NetWare 4.11/4.2 to NetWare 5.1 upgrade myself and don't have this problem.

However, I DID have this problem with Windows NT/2K in the mix and shutting down the Computer Browser and Server service in the Services section of the Control Panel did the trick for me.

Note - In Win2K it's buried further in the Control Panel - if someone hadn't stolen my keyboard I'd tell you exactly how to get to the Services section of Control Panel... I just can't remember off the top of my head - something to do with Administrator Services or something like that - damn Microsoft for making things more complicated than they needed to be...

The downside is that if you do this I think you will lose NT Domain networking.  Try it and see if it's worth the trade-off.  You should still be able to log into a NT Domain but some functions are negated.  ARCserve 7 for NetWare Manager got pissy with me until I re-enabled those services.
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6638931
Hi DSPoole:

Interestingly enough a colleague tried that (shut down Computer Browser and Server Services)  yesterday on his PC in an attempt to fix something else.

 Darn -  No affect though......  He just tested it for me now.

Appreciate the attempt.

Scott
 
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by:DSPoole
ID: 6639068
Scott,

When you upgraded the NetWare 4.x servers to 5.1 - did you replace ANY hardware or did you just upgrade the software?  Also, what NetWare 5.1 Support Pack is applied?
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6719211
FYI and update.  We upgraded our 7 Novell Servers to SP 3 over the Christmas Holiday.  Browse speed is still slow though.

Hope we can find an answer.

Scott
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Expert Comment

by:thesmer
ID: 6850671
Scott, try this command at the server console:
set client file caching enabled=off
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6857744
Hi and thanks for trying.  I checked one of our servers - \\Cg_lan3\  and it currently has that parameter turned off....
However it still took 62 seconds to borwse - and see printers and volumes.
Appreciate your trying.

Scott
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by:d50041
ID: 6858518
This may sound simplistic, but as an experiment, open Windows Explorer on a workstation and MAP a drive to one of these servers using a drive letter:

MAP H:=\\cg_acad2

Then try to browse to H: and let us know is your response time changes.
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6864913
OK, here's the reply to attempting a std. map to:
K:\\cg_acad2\

The following error occurred trying to connect to K:\\cg_acad2\
The computer or sharename could not be found.  Make sure you typed it correctly and try again.

(We do have the server in the DNS / Lookup tables)

Hmmmmm
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by:d50041
ID: 6864983
Try it with the Netware format:

server\volume:\directory\subdirectory
or
server_volume:\directory\subdirectory


You also stated you have installed the clients with IPX only so the DNS is not relevent, DNS is only used to resolve IP addresses.  I would remove the client on one workstation, do a custom install IP only, no options, and try that too, if and only if you have IP bound to your server's NIC.  Easy to add IP to the server NIC if IPX only now.  What protocols are currently bound to your server's NIC??

daveM
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6866136
Hi Dave:

Browsing to the volume and directory level is fine.  It's a matter of browsing to the server level - especially to see print queues....  that we are after.

I have set up clients to IP (see 11/08/2001 note) only.......

Scott
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by:d50041
ID: 6866161
I am not clear as to the difference between browsing to the volume versus browing to the "server level"???  Normally one has a drive mapped to a volume/directory (SYS, DATA, APPS...etc) and can browse to any directory/file on the server.  If you do not have a drive mapped, then you can use the RUN cammand as you have stated before.  I typically map a new drive letter in Windows Explorer and deselect the "remember after reboot".  This dynamic map is quick and allows me to go back to that mapped drive until I log off or unmap the volume/directory.  Maybe we could help better if you explained what browing to the server level means to you and also what you are seeking in the print queues.  I am not familiar will looking at the print queues in Windows Explorer, if that is what you mean.

dave
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6866302
Yes, when you click start and run - and enter \\cg_acad2  that is an example of "browsing to the
server level.  The problem is that you can't map a drive to this level.

If I were to enter \\cg_acad2\vol1 - then we call it "browsing to the volume level" and, as I'm sure you can deduce, \\cg_acad2\vol1\workspace is "browsing to the directory level".  THose would map just fine.

In browsing just to the server level, our technicians can see configured printers (and subsequently install them from that point).

Once we install iPrint in Netware 6 this probably won't be an issue - but that is a ways off for our environment.  
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by:DSPoole
ID: 6866382
d50041:

"server\volume:\directory\subdirectory
or
server_volume:\directory\subdirectory"

The correct format is:

server/volume:\directory\subdirectory

You got the second one right, but not the first one ;)

Scott -

Open up Network Neighborhood/My Network Places - drill down via NDS (not the server name, but the context) to see your volumes and print queues.

You can then right-click on your volume names and select Novell Map Network Drive...

Your attempt to open up \\cg_acad2 directly will fail because that is an NT/2K mapping technique. Also - you cannot enter a just a \\server or \\server\volume via the RUN command with NetWare.

You can get where you are going, you just have to stop thinking in ways that NT/2K does it.
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by:d50041
ID: 6867943
Thanks Dave, I stand corrected on the first drive map statement.  And you do need to map to a Novell volume and/or directory, not to the server.

Scott, Dave is correct, NT and Netware do not work the same for drive mappings. When I install a printer, using queue based printing, I use Start\Settings\Printers\Add Printers, then select network printers, then browse to the queue fo rthe printer I want.  There are many different ways to setup users to a printer.
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6880561
d 50041  DSPoole

On my machine, (Win 98) clicking on Network neighborhood, doesn't lead to "My Network Places".  Now I can open Network neighborhood and "drill" into NDS - but eventually, to get to the printers, - on VOL1 - you have to select a server.   And the delay continues.

Actually, you can go the the volume level by using Start, Run, \\Cg_lan3\vol1\  and enter. That is where the printers are.  This painfully slow.  The slowness is really the crux of this issue.

I agree that you can use, start, settings, printers, add....  but the issue (question) we've faced is why the slowness when you use the method:
Start, Run, \\Cg_lan3\vol1\  and enter
So the person that fixes that gets the points
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by:DSPoole
ID: 6880596
Sounds like SAP broadcasts sent out by the workstation.  When I disable Computer Browser and Server service on my NT/2K boxes, the delay problem disappears for me.

BTW:  in queue-based printing, you CANNOT see the actual Print Queue objects by opening the NetWare Volume object - you can see the queue filespaces/directories used by the Print Server/Print Queue objects - but what's the point there?

I guess I am confused why you need to drill down all the time to select a printer to use - one would think you would select File | Print from your application and then select the printer from the Available Printers drop-down list.

Also - have you considered Point and Print on the print queues?  With this you install the printer drivers on the Printer Queue objects and then drill down into NDS to install them.  With a little reworking of the .INF files you can even get the printers to be named the way you want to.

NDPS is another option and ZENworks for Desktops will allow you to do the Point and Print from NWAdmin32 (ZfD2) or ConsoleOne (ZfD3.x).

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by:thesmer
ID: 6885379
Are you using NDPS printing? If not kill that service on ALL w/s. Furthermore, kill File and Printer Sharing for MS on ALL w/s.
Can you give more details of your environment, LAN, WAN, routers, switches or hubs?
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6890134
DSPoole 3/19/02 - Your'e right you can only see the queues at the server level.  Sorry if
you understood they were at the volume level.  Our techs browse to the server level
ie: \\cg_lan3\ and install the printers from there.  (Using windows funtionality - point and print)
What were talking about is an initial installation of a printer onto a PC - specific to the location of the PC and desired print Q.  (if I users are trying to access their files this way then to bad for them - we suggest mapped drives).
I'd move on to test your NT/ W2k solution but we have 90% of our PC's that are WIN 98.

We don't have NDPS and don't plan on it for some time.  

We have seven Novell 5.1 servers, SP4,  one on a WAN segment, 3 on another WAN segment, 9000 accounts, anywhere from 200 Mhz  to 1000 Mhz CPU's all with SCSI Raid. We have Cisco 4000, AS5200 and Lightstream 1010 equipment in a mixed fiber and 10BT environment.
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by:d50041
ID: 6894632
Try adding printers this way:

Start\settings\printers\Add Printer
Next\Network Printer\Next\Browse
Select (click-on) the server that holds the queue you want to print to. Select the queue for the printer.
Click OK\Next\Next
After Windows sets up the driver database select the driver in the manner that best suites you and follow the prompts to finish the installation.  Don't forget to set the printer's properties, such as Notify, after setup.  See if this method works faster for you than the point and print method you are currently using.

daveM
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by:DSPoole
ID: 6895382
Scott,

You should NEVER have to browse to a NetWare Volume to install printers unless the printer drivers are stored there.  You should never even have to look at the print queue directories (QUEUES) - ever.

Do your Windows 98 machines suffer the same lag when opening up UNC paths or are they just as fast as mapped drives?
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6897552
Well I'm not looking for a new way to setup printers - both methodologies take time.

Going to \\cg_lan3\ and selecting the printer THAT HAS the printer driver stored there - is the established protocol here.

Let's refocus.  The crux problem here is this:

When we browse the a server using start, run, ex. - \\cg_lan3

The browsing takes up to 60+ seconds.  This is my reason for posting the question.  How can  this be fixed?

Scott
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by:DSPoole
ID: 6897565
Perhaps it's a Bindery Emulation issue - going to Start | Run and then entering a UNC for a server name is launching Bindery services via emulation.

Does the browse speed increase any if you open up Network Neighborhood and then select either the NDS tree or the current context and drill down to the Print Queue objects there?

If so, check your AUTOEXEC.NCF and see what your SET BINDERY CONTEXT = is set to.

note:  you can only have a Bindery Context set if a replica of the partition that stores the context that holds the server is placed on the server.

Which may be another point, do you have a replica on that server of the parition that contains your local context?
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 6926411
We set Bindery Emulation via an ncf file from the autoexec.ncf file.
 When using Network Neighborhood, I can drill down thru the root to the server or go direct to the server.  Once at the server level though, the "browse" delay before printers are displayed still takes about 60+ seconds.  Some servers are a little faster.
We have replicas on all 7 servers.  We set the context on each depending on location.  (WAN of local)

Scott Wickham
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by:DSPoole
ID: 6926517
Just out of curiosity - what kind of printers?  I have some digital copiers that take FOREVER to get to, but others are zippy...
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by:d50041
ID: 6927990
This is an interesting thread.  I tried your method, Scott, of Start\Run ...  \\Server_name and it took 15 seconds to bring up the server and printer list.  My workstation is connected to the same switch as the server I was browsing for.  Yet I always get almost instantaneous response if I am working through mapped drives.  I normally do not work through Network Neighborhood and I tried browsing the servers through that tool this am.  My thoughts are that the manner in which we use these tools may often have a discernable affect on the efficiency.  All networks being different we sometimes need to seek other ways of doing things than we way we "have always done it".  I know I have changed techniques as a result of leaning from others, DSPoole has provided much useful advice and I have learned that he and I do many tasks diffently, not better or worse, just different.  I guess I am trying to say that perhaps nothing is broken at your site but perhaps your slow method of printer setup might be alleviated by trying a different way to do this.
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Expert Comment

by:thesmer
ID: 6928136
Scott,
I'm sure you have done some or all of this already. This is what I would do to try and isolate the prob. If speed is not an issue after you browse to the server than I believe the problem is along the lines of name,service or rights resolution. If I were having the problem you're having I would look at the following:

DNS- Are DNS servers slow,corrupt, inconsistant. browse to Server using \\'ip-address' is that any faster.

Protocols- IP,IPX,IPX Compat. (kill IPX Comp.Mode if running IPX on all servers & w/s)

SLP- Examine SLP configuration. Configured or M/Bcasting? Scopelist and DA's.

Replica- Are Replicas local, any partitons spanning the wan. Is DS in good health.

Tree Walking- Are clients tree walking for rights.

Hardware- is this happening on 1,many,or all servers; does this happen at 1,many,or all locations? Are the hubs causing a bottleneck(10/half or 100/full) Are there multiple LAN segments connected within the same Location,building,or campus. Are switches configured correctly. Are packets being dropped.

Clients- Are clients uniformly configured, how are network services discovered, name services (slp,sap,dns,nds,host).
Is zenworks slow, Is access to resources on mapped drives slow.
--T
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Author Comment

by:scottinmesa
ID: 7009396
Hi Thesmer:

I reviewed the list of suggestions (thanks) - were in good shape as far as the items listed.  Sorry I couldn't get back sooner.  The observations I have are that the delay appears to increased relative to the number of users logged into the server.  ie - server A) with 3 people responds much quicker than server B) with 276 users logged in.
60 seconds plus though !

Browse to ip (\\140.xxx.xxx.xx\sys) is fairly quick to VOL1 however the big delay is to SYS.  

RE: Tree Walking- Are clients tree walking for rights.
Can you explain more?  We grant rights to users / groups via NWADMIN then map to the directories required.  Is that what you mean?
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by:CyberWizard
ID: 7194039
has this problem been resolved or is the problem still occuring?

regards,

CyberWizard
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by:scottinmesa
ID: 7801430
I think that there is no answer to this question.
Will be closing it out soon I guess.

Scott
01/24/2003
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by:DSPoole
ID: 7802432
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by:CleanupPing
ID: 9156842
scottinmesa:
This old question needs to be finalized -- accept an answer, split points, or get a refund.  For information on your options, please click here-> http:/help/closing.jsp#1
EXPERTS:
Post your closing recommendations!  No comment means you don't care.
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Author Comment

by:scottinmesa
ID: 9163531
Sorry -

Previous answer was for Win 2000 machines.   I have a 98 here.

Please post refund / award me question points then close question.

Thanks to everyone for trying.
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ID: 9930116
No comment has been added lately, so it's time to clean up this TA.
I will leave the following recommendation for this question in the Cleanup topic area:

PAQ with points refunded

Please leave any comments here within the next seven days.
PLEASE DO NOT ACCEPT THIS COMMENT AS AN ANSWER!

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