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Duplicate email problem happened on 5.06a NOTES server

Posted on 2001-09-17
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Dear all,

We recently have users complain to receive duplicate email from users. After checking from sender and confirm that single email was just send out, but users recieve the same message with more than few times and even more. It does not only happen on NOTES, but also happen on other email system who recive duplicate email from NOTES

Our system is under Sun 8 with 1G memory
Notes version is 5.06a
Clinet version are upgarded from 5.06 to 5.08

Any commends are welcome.

Edmund
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by:marilyng
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There is a wealth of Notes.Net documents on the topic:

http://www.notes.net/46dom.nsf/Search/090e2630fa5ec52b852567980049681f?OpenDocument

Or search using "duplicate AND email" to get the whole list.  

Also, Notes Knowledge base has an article relating to a Cisco fix or anti-virus programs that sometimes cause this to happen.


I'll search some more to see -- meanwhile, post your firewall, antivirus programs to narrow it down.

Marilyng
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HemanthaKumar earned 150 total points
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So far I haven't heard any clear-cut reason that why duplication arises. Will wait and see who has got the answer.

This link gives you the possible checks, http://support.lotus.com/sims2.nsf/eb5fbc0ab175cf0885256560005206cf/872c2d8533a781fa8525653e006ede62?OpenDocument

And this one is related to R4, and seem to be fixed in R5
http://support.lotus.com/sims2.nsf/eb5fbc0ab175cf0885256560005206cf/872c2d8533a781fa8525653e006ede62?OpenDocument

~Hemanth
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HemanthaKumar,

Your first response and 2 links refers to broadcast messages where the TO: list of recipients is larger than 15K.  I'm not sure this is what the user is describing.

Your second response and links refers to anti-virus program and firewall issues that MY link in Notes Net and directions for subsequent searches refers to.  But, since there can be a variety of possible causes, with the most likely being the Cisco Router, or known issues with the PIX firewall, I've asked the user to provide router and firewall information in addition to anti-virus programs so that we can narrow it down a bit.

Don't you agree?
marilyng






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 Dear all,

I have already posted this topic to notes discussion group to follow up.
Any suggestion is welcome

Edit New topic Post response Add to My Interests Previous  Next  

RE: Duplicate Outbound Messages Solution?
Posted by edmund li on 18-Sep-01 at 12:10 AM
Category: Domino Server -- OtherRelease: Release 5Platform:
Dear all,

It does happen to our environment with the same case. Actually, we are having Release 5.06a server under SUN environment.

Recipient keep complaing to obtain the duplicate email from sender and sender confirm that they do only send out once. Morever, More cases are found out that it does not only in outbound message (SMTP to internet or other email server), but also even to internal users from same NOTES server.

The problem is getting servious and we have tried the following

1)Update/hotfix the problem users
2)Rebuild mail.box in server

FYI
1 Most of users are using offline mode
2 Have long distribution list

Please advise and Thanks in advance.

Edmund



 
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edmundli,

If your duplicate emails include long (15K or more) distribution lists, then you need to follow Hemantha's links for suggested resolutions.

But in order to help you isolate the problem we need to know OS, firewall, anti-virus settings as well as if those cases are long distribution lists.

regards,
marilyng
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 Dear all,

I have already posted this topic to notes discussion group to follow up.
Any suggestion is welcome

Edit New topic Post response Add to My Interests Previous  Next  

RE: Duplicate Outbound Messages Solution?
Posted by edmund li on 18-Sep-01 at 12:10 AM
Category: Domino Server -- OtherRelease: Release 5Platform:
Dear all,

It does happen to our environment with the same case. Actually, we are having Release 5.06a server under SUN environment.

Recipient keep complaing to obtain the duplicate email from sender and sender confirm that they do only send out once. Morever, More cases are found out that it does not only in outbound message (SMTP to internet or other email server), but also even to internal users from same NOTES server.

The problem is getting servious and we have tried the following

1)Update/hotfix the problem users
2)Rebuild mail.box in server

FYI
1 Most of users are using offline mode
2 Have long distribution list

Please advise and Thanks in advance.

Edmund



 
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by:edmundli
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Dear all ,

Does it for 5.06a ? it looks that HemanthaKumary's solution is for 4.x version and fixed in 5.0 ?

Edmund
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by:HemanthaKumar
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Yes that is what they say, but there is no fixed list in R5 saying that duplication has been corrected. Probably I would have missed. Check Lotus site if it is fixed or not.

My second note says that the duplication still exists in Domino 5.x

AS Marilyng suggests, if you can give some info about firewall, OS and AV it would be very good starting point.

~Hemanth
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by:edmundli
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OS is Solaris 2.6 with patches.
1G memory
72G harddisk
Around 800 users.

Firewall == Sun EFS 3.0

We do find case happen within SERVER itself,

Users are within the same server, but they complian to have duplicate email.

Some of problem to shows that
1) They use very long distribution list
2) We use scanmail as virus detect program

Thanks

Edmund
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by:HemanthaKumar
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Well then the distribution list might be the one which is causing the problem. As them to break the list manually and then try to send.

Marilyng what do you think. Where does the problem occur ???
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Dear all,

I do find some cases that users does not have a long distribution list, just pickup from system book.

Edmund
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by:marilyng
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There are a couple of causes.. the long distribution list is normally broken up by Notes Server when it exceeds 15K, which is why the email is duplicated.  There is a specific fix for this,

The other cause is the virus scanning software.  Here's one:

For the sake of anyone who may be having this problem ... further investigation points to this problem being caused by our virus scanning software for e-mail.

The virus scanner seems to set aside mail messages that contain attachments and actually modifies the document before sending it on. The clues to this are that the second message contains the receiving server name in the $UpdatedBy field and the fact that a new field called "scanned" contains the value of "scanned".

I'm still not sure why this happens some times and not others. When it does not happen, the message received does not contain the extra "scanned" field nor does the receiving server modify it.

The Other is a known issue with Cisco PIX firewall:

Problem:

A Domino R5 administrator starts to receive duplicate messages inbound from various Internet domains. This occurs even though there have been no changes to the Domino environment, the network or firewalls. The customer is running a PIX firewall made by CISCO Systems.

Solution:

The problem has been reported to CISCO Systems and was determined to be an issue with the "Fixup SMTP Protocol" feature. In this customer's particular case, the duplicate messages stopped after disabling the "Fixup SMTP Protocol" feature.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Be sure to refer to the CISCO documentation on what this feature does and how it would affect the environment before disabling it.

Here's another solution:

 
 
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RE: Multiple Emails Being Sent Out
Posted by Stephanie Seaton on 14-May-01 at 07:28 PM
Category: Domino Server -- OtherRelease: 4.6.4Platform: Windows NT
I have just been through Notes.net looking for something else (similiar) and came across a number of relevant entries after searching for "multiple and duplicate". Try this search. The most relevant reponse I found was by Matt Chant 01/17/2001 subject: "RE: SMTP MTA causing duplicate outgoing mails - URGENT".

I also had a similiar problem - and I couldn't find the duplicated emails inside the Notes system. Best we got to a workaround is as follows :
> the main group was divided into subgroups not bigger than 20 - 30 members
> some external addresses that wouldn't work in a subgroup with other addresses I put into their very own special subgroup and this worked (god knows why)
> the server settings on the MTA side only allowed 2 retries on failure and was an hour apart

Scenario for multiples to occur seemed to coincide with the size of the header - sort of. I couldn't duplicate it myself though and it didn't occur across all clients - only one - and only one particular group of people using only one particular group. (And yes ... the group got recreated umpteen times).

After quite a lot of background investigation through some techo stuff (packet sizes and routers etc) I barely understood I came to the same conclusion that Matt Chant espouses, and the above work-around seems to work 99% of the time. The instances have dropped right off and the other 1% the client seems to be able to handle because it occurs rarely now.

Hope this helps in some way .... I spent months with this one.
 
Here's Mike Chance's Notes and the Message Thread that I think is the cause of your particular problem:

 
 
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RE: SMTP MTA Causing Duplicate Outgoing Mails- URGENT
Posted by Matt Chant/CAM/Lotus on 17-Jan-01 at 11:30 AM
Category: Domino Server -- SMTPRelease: 4.6.6Platform: Windows NT
The most likely case for this is that theres a breakdown in communication between the MTA and the ISP relay host at or after the point the MTA sends the packet of data that indicates the end of the message content.
The MTA expects to get back a confirmation that the message content was received okay. If the receiving host is very slow in sending that back, the MTA may assume that the connection was lost, and requeue the message, when infact the message was sucessfully received. The receiving system *must* acknowledge receipt of the data as quickly as possible. If the receiving system is performing content checks, such as anti-virus or 'content-filtering' then it should perform those checks after receiving the message, not before acknowledging the receipt of the data, otherwise this kind of problem can occur.
You can use the SMTPMTA_TRACE_LEVEL ini variable to get a detailed log of the MTAs transaction, and see if at all, the ISP acknowledges the receipt of the message, and how quickly.
This issue has been detailed in RFC1047 (Duplication of SMTP messages) and it clearly put the onus on the receiving host to respond as quickly as possible, and not on the sending host to wait for inordiantely long periods of time....
 
http://notes.net/46dom.nsf/Search/d6ca586152a4af71852569d7005aadd2?OpenDocument

---------
I think Mike Chance's solution is probably the best one to try..

HemanthaKumar, do you agree?
marilyng

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by:edmundli
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Dear all,

I do find some cases that users does not have a long distribution list, just pickup from system book.

Edmund
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edmundli,

If you read the ENTIRE note above, the solutions cover a variety of possibilities that you will need to evaluate for your specific server configuration, and links for you to review that might help you diagnose the problem.

This is not an easy problem to isolate, and we would need to be monitoring and tracing your mail in order to do it effectively.  Since this is not possible, the next thing we can do is point you in a general direction so that you can evaluate and isolate the cause of the problem.

I'm pretty sure it's a SMTP/MTA problem.

marilyng


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Marilyng.

After having a long discussion and we may done something

1) verifing the scanmail program in software == ok
2) Distribution list == still have discussion to ask user to do this
3) Firewall, ==, we may not consider that first, as it happens to internal server also.
4) OS version upgrade == vendors are still checking 5.06a under 2.6 at our monment
5) mail.box size is not normal == have 70Mb with no doc in side. === vendors are still checking

Case happend
1) NOTES USER TO NOTES USERS
2) NOTES USER TO other users

1) HAVE long distribtion list and not disbribution list
(more chance to have duplciate error in long distrubution list)

Under my above points , can we confirm this is a NOTES server problem ?


Do we consider mailrelay as also the issue, but it seems that it related to NOTES user to OTHER users --- mailrelay probem ?

I can not explain NOTES TO NOTES is we pin point to mailrelay problem

Still can confirm this is NOTES SERVER ISSUE ?

Edmund
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by:edmundli
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Marilyng.

After having a long discussion and we may done something

1) verifing the scanmail program in software == ok
2) Distribution list == still have discussion to ask user to do this
3) Firewall, ==, we may not consider that first, as it happens to internal server also.
4) OS version upgrade == vendors are still checking 5.06a under 2.6 at our monment
5) mail.box size is not normal == have 70Mb with no doc in side. === vendors are still checking

Case happend
1) NOTES USER TO NOTES USERS
2) NOTES USER TO other users

1) HAVE long distribtion list and not disbribution list
(more chance to have duplciate error in long distrubution list)

Under my above points , can we confirm this is a NOTES server problem ?


Do we consider mailrelay as also the issue, but it seems that it related to NOTES user to OTHER users --- mailrelay probem ?

I can not explain NOTES TO NOTES is we pin point to mailrelay problem

Still can confirm this is NOTES SERVER ISSUE ?

Edmund
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edmundi.

I couldn't say for sure only because I have not experienced this particular problem.. perhaps sloeber or jerrick might have an answer, since they're both more on the Admin side.

However, check the document properties on the duplicates and see if you have any additional fields like: SCANNED, and see who last updated the docs.. this will indicate that it's your virusscan software, or Notes Server or NT server that's doing it.

If you can't get a full trace history, open a few of these in Notes Peek.. the Notes to Notes users should indicate some of the set tags on the document.

I'll search some more and see what else I can find.. Hemantha, any thoughts?

marilyng
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Some of thing are found

1) mail.box size is not normal in one of our server
normal size in our environment is around 20M, but it went up to 80M. Vendor has checked in mail.box but there was nothing in side.

2) More details log were found , even NOTES to NOTES users.
communication.

Duplicate email was found from one user
Actuall email send out one user. and another email was send from himself ?
Do you think this is the replication problem ?
Most of users are using offline mode and set replication schedule to download messagl.

3) More logs were found even NOTES to NOTES,
but actual email was deliveried to mailrelay (using SMTP address not NOTES address)

Vendor is going to change the setting in server level

4) We are going to check the mailrelay configuration,
Any idea?

5) Scanmail has not been confirmed yet..

6) We are going to check the problem users as special as th

a) replication setting
b) doc config.
c) distribution list

Do they think the email with attachment make duplicate problem ?

I am using Solars 2.6 with 1G memory system.
Server version 5.06 , we may not need consider the NT version.

Thanks in advance
Edmund
Thanks


One received message was check from
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by:edmundli
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Hi All,

Any news/update ?

Do you think this is what we can have the disucssion or nearly the end of discussion ?

Edmund
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Edmundli,

You mentioned in one of your note that scanmail is ok, How you confirmed that ???

I would suggest you to uninstall scanmail and test run. That may suggest few more things.

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Hemantha is right.. scanmail setup typically move a doc to a temp folder and scan it, then save it as "scanned".. the most common causes of the duplication that I can find is that the original is not removed from mail.box so scan is constantly rescanning it.. so if you check the doc properties, you should see different unids for each doc, which means they're not duplicates, but new docs created by mail.box or your scan program.  

marilyng
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Comfirmed by HQ is ok, but I am not sure how do they check this. It is be wrong.

I had checked some case that all message have same message id.

Here is the info, I changed my compay name to ABC. sorry about this.

CNMAIL02/CN/ABC
24.09 14:42 ZE8 - 24.09 14:42 ZE8

User:     Yaping LU/CN/ABC
Elapsed Time:     0 minutes
Documents Read:     0
Documents Written:     4
Network Port:     TCPIP
Network Usage:     20,2 KBytes transferred
Transactions:     22
     

     Documents     Documents     Time Open
Database     Read     Written     (seconds)
mail1/mail01/ylu1.nsf     0     1     0
mail.box     0     3     1


Additional info:
POSTEDDATE / Time  not the same
DeliveredDate / Time : same


Log 1
From:  CN=Yaping LU/OU=CN/O=ABC
PostedDate:  09/24/2001 02:41:03 PM
$UpdatedBy:  CN=Yaping LU/OU=CN/O=ABC
Categories:  
$Revisions:  
RouteServers:  CN=CNMAIL02/OU=CN/O=ABC
RouteTimes:  09/24/2001 01:42:55 PM-09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM
$MsgTrackFlags:  0
DeliveredDate:  09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM

Log  2
From:  CN=Yaping LU/OU=CN/O=ABC
PostedDate:  09/24/2001 02:41:44 PM
Categories:  
$Revisions:  
RouteServers:  CN=CNMAIL02/OU=CN/O=ABC
RouteTimes:  09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM-09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM
$MsgTrackFlags:  0
DeliveredDate:  09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM


Log 3
From:  CN=Yaping LU/OU=CN/O=ABC
PostedDate:  09/24/2001 02:42:22 PM
Categories:  
$Revisions:  
RouteServers:  CN=CNMAIL02/OU=CN/O=ABC
RouteTimes:  09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM-09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM
$MsgTrackFlags:  0
DeliveredDate:  09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM


Sender     Mail system     Sent date & time     Receipient     Mail system     received date & time     Message ID     Sent X times     Receive X times
Yaping LU     Notes server CNMAIL02     09/24/2001 02:41 PM     Aiwa LEE     Notes server CNMAIL02     2001/09/24 01:42 PM
                         2001/09/24 01:42 PM
                         2001/09/24 01:42 PM     "<OF45BEDFFD.0E1AD83E-ON48256AD1.00249ECF@LocalDomain>"
                              "<OF45BEDFFD.0E1AD83E-ON48256AD1.00249ECF@LocalDomain>"
                              "<OF45BEDFFD.0E1AD83E-ON48256AD1.00249ECF@LocalDomain>"     1     3


Edmund
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Comfirmed by HQ is ok, but I am not sure how do they check this. It is be wrong.

I had checked some case that all message have same message id.

Here is the info, I changed my compay name to ABC. sorry about this.

CNMAIL02/CN/ABC
24.09 14:42 ZE8 - 24.09 14:42 ZE8

User:     Yaping LU/CN/ABC
Elapsed Time:     0 minutes
Documents Read:     0
Documents Written:     4
Network Port:     TCPIP
Network Usage:     20,2 KBytes transferred
Transactions:     22
     

     Documents     Documents     Time Open
Database     Read     Written     (seconds)
mail1/mail01/ylu1.nsf     0     1     0
mail.box     0     3     1


Additional info:
POSTEDDATE / Time  not the same
DeliveredDate / Time : same


Log 1
From:  CN=Yaping LU/OU=CN/O=ABC
PostedDate:  09/24/2001 02:41:03 PM
$UpdatedBy:  CN=Yaping LU/OU=CN/O=ABC
Categories:  
$Revisions:  
RouteServers:  CN=CNMAIL02/OU=CN/O=ABC
RouteTimes:  09/24/2001 01:42:55 PM-09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM
$MsgTrackFlags:  0
DeliveredDate:  09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM

Log  2
From:  CN=Yaping LU/OU=CN/O=ABC
PostedDate:  09/24/2001 02:41:44 PM
Categories:  
$Revisions:  
RouteServers:  CN=CNMAIL02/OU=CN/O=ABC
RouteTimes:  09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM-09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM
$MsgTrackFlags:  0
DeliveredDate:  09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM


Log 3
From:  CN=Yaping LU/OU=CN/O=ABC
PostedDate:  09/24/2001 02:42:22 PM
Categories:  
$Revisions:  
RouteServers:  CN=CNMAIL02/OU=CN/O=ABC
RouteTimes:  09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM-09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM
$MsgTrackFlags:  0
DeliveredDate:  09/24/2001 01:42:56 PM


Sender     Mail system     Sent date & time     Receipient     Mail system     received date & time     Message ID     Sent X times     Receive X times
Yaping LU     Notes server CNMAIL02     09/24/2001 02:41 PM     Aiwa LEE     Notes server CNMAIL02     2001/09/24 01:42 PM
                         2001/09/24 01:42 PM
                         2001/09/24 01:42 PM     "<OF45BEDFFD.0E1AD83E-ON48256AD1.00249ECF@LocalDomain>"
                              "<OF45BEDFFD.0E1AD83E-ON48256AD1.00249ECF@LocalDomain>"
                              "<OF45BEDFFD.0E1AD83E-ON48256AD1.00249ECF@LocalDomain>"     1     3


Edmund
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Dear all,

Do all of you think we do not have further discussion ?
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Other than what we went over, and just a shot in the dark from the logs you provided.. is it possible that the distribution lists have duplicate names? Or the user, working offline, is using a distribution list containing duplicate names?

My next suggestion would be to close this question and repost to see if one of the other notes experts have a solution.

I'm fresh out of ideas.. deepest apologies,

marilyng
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by:HemanthaKumar
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I would like you to take a look at this tech note.

http://support.lotus.com/sims2.nsf/5cc03e969ad30ea185256acd005a9c8f/965acfba14e330e3852566490071ac96?OpenDocument

Do you infer anything from this !

Suspect virus scanner.

~Hemanth
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marilyng and  HemanthaKumar

Thanks both of our supports and your valued experience.

Confirmed by HQ, it is not a virus scanner issue.

Meanwhile, It is also confirmed by IBM and Lotus.

The mail50.ntf is corrupted in our system and they had replcace the new one and we did also rebuild the mail.box.

Now we will see how it goes.

I believe that this is a complex case and should worth more than 200 points. As a result, we personally add one more 100 points and end up to 300 points

Do you know how can I make it equql points to both of you ?

Edmund
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Post a request to customer support with details about splitting points they will reduce the points to this question and will ask you to create another question with desired points to be awarded to the experts.

PS: Provide linkt to this question while contacting CS

~Hemanth
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Split arranged per request.

marilyng: points for you at http://www.experts-exchange.com/jsp/qShow.jsp?ta=lotusnotes&qid=20262528

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