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Can ping, but not see

Posted on 2002-03-23
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Last Modified: 2010-04-11
Almost have my computer network set up properly.
Here's the scenario:
XP machine (monster) connected to 98 machine (di) through crossover.
XP can ping 98's machine both by IP and by name of machine (di).
XP also sees the share of 98 and can access it through network places.
98 on the other hand can ping the IP of the XP machine, but not the name (monster).  It also does not see monster in network neighborhood.
I have netbuei set up on the 98 machine.  I have the gateway on the 98 to be set to the ip address of the xp.  I manually set the ip addresses are they 169.254.66.1 for the xp and 169.254.66.5 for the 98.
Does anyone have any idea of why i cannot access monster from di?
Thanks in advance,
Avi
0
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Question by:amozes
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35 Comments
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6891617
169.254.x.x is the APIPA addreses range (when it can't find a dhcp server it assigns itself this range of ip addresses. try using 192.168.0.1 for the xp and 192.168.0.2 for the 98
mask 255.255.255.0 for both
then add entries to the lmhosts and hosts files on each machine
lmhosts file info
http://www.realcomputerguy.com/lmhosts.htm
hosts file info
NT
location
C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\ETC\hosts
also see here
http://www.smartin-designs.com/
here
http://www.smartin-designs.com/hosts_info_left.htm
and here
http://www.octopus.iastate.edu/files/11edit_hostfile.html
9x http://www.brother.com/european/networking/chapter18/chapter18_tcpip-hosts-file.html
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6891642
By switching to the 192.168 way, now neither can ping each other nor see each other.
I put 192.168.0.8 for the xp
192.168.0.7 for 98 with gateway of 192.168.0.8.
Both subnets are 255.255.255.0
I haven't done the lmhosts yet, but I'm guessing something is wrong if I can't even ping anymore.
Avi
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6891691
remove gateway of 192.168.0.8
do you have ICS set up on any of the machines? If so you MUST use 192.168.0.1 on the NIC connected to the LAN of the host machine
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LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6891695
Does you DSL use PPPoE? If so, then you must choose the PPPoE adapter as the connection to the internet, and not the NIC connected to the modem
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6891697
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/ics
click on the xp section
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6891789
I now am using the .1 and .2 configuration with no gateway.  My DSL uses PPPoE, so when you're talking about choosing it as the connection to the internet, so mean select ics on it with the home networking connection having the value of the lan connection (which is lan area connection 8 for me).
By the way, I have two nic cards in the xp.
One is connected to the DSL modem (local area connection 3) and the other connection to the 98 (lac 8).
Here's an output from ipconfig if it helps:
Windows IP Configuration


Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.38.60
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

PPP adapter DSL:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 64.160.15.56
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 64.160.15.56

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 8:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6891826
I set the ics on the dsl connect with the home networking
connection having the value of the lan connection (8).
I also set the lan connection to obtain automatically for both the xp (lan connection 8) and the 98 machine.
When I did a ipconfig /renew, here's the response I got:
Windows IP Configuration

An error occurred while renewing interface Local Area Connection 3 : unable to contact your DHCP server. Request has timed out.

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.38.60
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 8:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.66.43
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

PPP adapter DSL:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 64.160.15.56
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 64.160.15.56

I guess this is why I was using the 169.254.66.43 address because that's what it kept on assigning.
Any ideas of why this would occur and how to go past this?  Should I go back to the old configuration with the 169.254 addresses on xp and 98?  
Thanks for any help,
Avi
0
 
LVL 31

Expert Comment

by:rid
ID: 6891925
Does your internet connection work at all?
I can't say I know XP ICS in detail, but in a case like this I'd suggest a restoration of your LAN side TCP/IP setup. Use static addresses internally in the 192.160.0. range. Bind file sharing to NETBEUI. Gateway for internal machines will be the 192.168 etc address of the ICS machine. Depending on what ICS can do, your DNS servers may be set to either the gateway address (for the internal machines) or to the DNS servers named by your ISP.

Just a thought
/RID
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6892131
when you enable ICS, are you enabling the connection to your provider, or are you enableing the LAN connection to the modem as the shared connection?
it should be the connection to the ISP, and NOT the LAN connection
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6892133
it should be the connection to the ISP, and NOT the LAN connection
should read
it should be the connection to the ISP, and NOT the LAN connection to the modem
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6892135
also note you must reboot the 98 box after changing the ip info
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6892406
Right,
I'm enabling it on the dsl modem with the connection when it asks of which lan connection to use as the home networking connection to be the oneconnected to the 98 machine.
But I could care less at this point if the 98 machine had internet access.  I just want the two to be able to file share and possibly play games right now.
So, off of the topic of ics, what needs to be done?
Avi
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6892424
enable NetBEUI on the xp box (so you have it on both)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q301/0/41.asp 
then
enable file and printer sharing on both machines
share a folder on both machines
install netbeui on both machines
ensure that they are in the same workgroup
do a find-->computer--> and search for the other computer (this establishes a session)
make sure the computer names are different, contain no more than 15 characters and have no wildcards and no spaces in them
make sure that netbeui is bound to both NIC’s
use client for microsoft as primary logon
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6892430
The only thing I haven't done from that list is installing netbeui on the xp. I'll have to hold that off til tomorrow since my XP CD is at work.  But I doubt that could be the solution to all my problems.  What do I put for the tcp/ip settings and nic card settings??
Avi
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6892443
first lets see if there are any phantom NIC's in your machine (all those LAN's may indicate so)
go here and enable hidden devices in device manager
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q269155
then make usre there are only the 2 NIC's
then for the NIC connected to the LAN on the xp box
ip 192.168.0.1
mask 255.255.255.0
disable dns and wins
on the 9x box
ip 192.168.0.2
mask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.0.1
disable wins and enable dns and use 192.168.0.1
(reboot both boxes)
then go to the 9x box and from a prompt type these commands
ping 127.0.0.1
ping 192.168.0.2
ping 192.168.0.1

then from a prompt on the xp box type
ping 127.0.0.1
ping 192.168.0.1
ping 192.168.0.2
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6892614
I did have about a dozen network adapters there.  Deleted the ghost ones.  But I still have the following:
Direct Parallel
NETGear FA310Tx (to other comp)
NETGear FA311 (to dsl)
Wan Miniport (ip)
Wan Miniport (ipx)
Wan Miniport (l2tp)
Wan Miniport (pppoe)
Wan Miniport (pptp)
Do I need to delete any of these?
Also, I set it up on the 98 machine to enable dns on the dns configuration tab for the host and domain to have values and the dns server search order to have the 192.168.0.1 value.  There is no value in gateway.  Is this correct?
When I restarted the machines, they could ping 127.0.0.1 and themselves fine.  Still could not ping each other.
Avi
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6892625
Also, when I'm setting the IP addresses and subnets, these are in the TCP/IP section.  There is also the section on the NIC cards that have the option to put in a network address.  As of now, I have them to not present.  Should I be setting them to their respective IPs?
Avi
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6892642
Direct Parallel
NETGear FA310Tx (to other comp)
NETGear FA311 (to dsl)
Wan Miniport (ip)
Wan Miniport (ipx)
Wan Miniport (l2tp)
Wan Miniport (pppoe)
Wan Miniport (pptp)
Do I need to delete any of these?
No, but you can remove the ipx/spx protocol (used for novel networks)

There is also
the section on the NIC cards that have the option to put in a network address.
leave these blank, they are also for ipx/spx (novel)
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6892648
Also, I set it up on the 98 machine to enable dns on the dns configuration tab for the host and domain
to have values and the dns server search order to have the 192.168.0.1 value.  There is no value in
gateway.  Is this correct?
NO, you need a gatewy for the 98 box
192.168.0.1

Still could not ping
each other.
Are there link lights lit on the adapters? The lights should be light
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6892679
Put the gateway for the 98 box, so now it has 192.168.0.1 for the gateway as well as the dns server search order.
Rebooted both machines and still they could not ping each other.
Link light is on both machines.  I have them at 10M Half Duplex.

Is this a problem though:

ipconfig /renew

Windows IP Configuration

An error occurred while renewing interface Local Area Connection 3 : unable to contact your DHCP server. Request has timed out.

LAC 3 is the one to the dsl modem.

Avi
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6892696
Is this the machine you are using now to send this? if so , then your isp server may not accept renewal requests
OK, now from both mahcines please paste the results here of
ipconfig /all |more
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6892700
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6892704
do you have any sort of firewall (zonealarm, blackice, or anything like that installed on either machine?
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6893070
No, there's no firewall on either machine.

For the XP:

Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : monster
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 8:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : NETGEAR FA310TX Fast Ethernet Adapte
r (NGRPCI) #3
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-02-E3-08-0C-BC
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : NETGEAR FA311 Fast Ethernet Adapter
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-02-E3-24-24-D9
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.38.60
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

PPP adapter DSL:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : WAN (PPP/SLIP) Interface
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-53-45-00-00-00
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 64.169.113.58
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 64.169.113.58
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 64.160.192.70
                                            206.13.29.12

For the 98 machine:
(writing this down)
Windows 98 IP Configuration
Host name: diana.diana.com
DNS Servers: 192.168.0.1
Node Type: Broadcast
NetBIOS Scope ID:
IP Routing Enabled: No
WINS Prpxy enable: No
NetBIOS Resolution uses DNS: Yes

0 Ethernet Adapter
Description: NetGEAR FA310TX Fast Ethernet PCI Adapter
Physical Address: 19-02-16-08-00-02
DHCP Enabled: No
IP Address: 192.168.0.2
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.0.1
Primary WINS Server:
Second WINS Server:
Lease Obtained:
Lease Expires:

And that's it.
Hopefully this helps,
Avi
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6893077
Everything looks good, make triple sure that the crossover cable is blugged in to the correct NIC
 NETGEAR FA310TX Fast Ethernet Adapter

and also boot the 98 machine to safe mode, go to device manager and make sure there is only one NIC listed there (duplicates will only show up in safe mode)
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6893103
Triple checked it.  It's the 310 in the xp that it's connected to.  Plus dsl is working.  So the 311 is connected properly.
Check the 98 machine in safe mode -- no duplicates.
One thing to note as in my first posting in this thread was when I was using the 169.254 address, I had almost everything working in terms of file sharing.  I only could not see the xp from 98 in network neighborhood.  I could ping the xp from 98 though.  And if I tell it to obtain the ip automatically, it will give me a 169.254 address, not a 192.168 one.  Not sure if this tells anyone anything, but it could be important.
Avi
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6893136
169.254
this is the address range the computer assigns itself when it can't find a dhcp server.
I think you have both boxes so confused now they don't know what is what
YOu can try setting them back to the auto ip config and see if you can see anything. If not, you may have to remove all networking componenets reboot and reinstall them
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6893153
I think that's what I'll try.  To uninstall, I should remove the nic cards from both computers, turn on computers with no nic cards, remove the network adapters (should be ghosts in xp), put in nics, and turn on computers and let windows detect them. Correct?
Avi
0
 
LVL 41

Accepted Solution

by:
stevenlewis earned 250 total points
ID: 6893164
Before that, remove all protocols, etc by going to each local area connection, right click shoose properties, and remvoe them form there, then remove the NIC's from device manager, reboot and reinstall everything
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6893316
OK, removed everything.  Even swapped out the nic card in the 98 and put it in the xp (now being used for the dsl connection instead ofthe lan connection).  Reinstalled everything and now here's the results using the 192.168 ips:
XP can ping itself and 98 with ip and computer name (monster which is the XP and di which is the 98).
It can also see di (the 98 machine) and access it's share.
98 can ping itself and the XP with ip and computer name.
It sees itself in network neighborhood, but not monster.
I heard that it takes time (sometimes up to 15 minutes to show up), so I'm waiting now.  If it does not show up, what could it be?  I installed Netbeui as well.
The good thing is I never got this far.  I got one step further this time by actually getting the 98 machine to ping by computer name (monster).  So hopefully, if itcan see it in network neighborhood, the only thing I have to worry about is ICS.
If anyone has an idea of why i can't see monster on the 98 machine, please let me know.
Thanks,
Avi
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6893350
It seems when I uninstalled everything, it lost my shares (most likely the reason I couldn't see anything in network neighborhood), but when I try to share a drive or folder now, it gives me this error:
An error occurred while trying to share ---.  The Server service is not started.
The shared resource was not created at this time.

where --- is what I'm trying to share.

any ideas?
Avi
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6893367
Well, I got Internet working on the 98!  Still the only problem is the above problem.  If anyone has any ideas to this problem and can fix it for me, I'll open a new question to give points.
Thanks again stevenlewis for your help.
Avi
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 6893637
Go to control panel, admin tools, serices, and start the server service, set it to automaticaly
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6894345
Problem is: I don't even have the server service in there. :(
Avi
0
 

Author Comment

by:amozes
ID: 6894598
Opened up another question for this.  Please answer there.
Thanks,
Avi
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