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Can't Get my two PC listed on the network Neighborhood

Posted on 2002-04-05
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Last Modified: 2010-04-11
Hi,

I have two machines:

1 Dell XPS T 700R
1 No BRand Penium 4 1.4GH

The Dell is connected to the Minihub
The P4 is also Connected to the minihub
A Cable goes from the Minihub in (Uplink Mode) to a DSL Modem.

There is no Collision and both computer access the Internet Properly.

I set the Workgroup name as "Workgroup" (I even try changing the names several times) on both Machines.
Both machine have:
 - "Client for Microsoft Network"
 - "Microsoft Family logon"
 - "File and printer Sharing for Microsoft"

They both requires a different password at logon (just in case it matters) . I tried everything.

Both PC have at least one folder set with Sharing capability.

I tried all kind of combination with the Cables.

the best that I get is each computer listing their own icon on the Network Neighborhood. When clicking to entire network it gives me a blank listing.
 
I am running out of options. They are connected since they both access the internet. They act like they are not on the same Workgroup. Even though they are. Will changing the Netcard make a difference ?, any softare setting I am missing. The process is usually pretty straightforward especially on only 2 machines. Grr. :-(

Please help. I am stuck and need to get this resolve ASAP.

Thank you for your help and complete details of the different optiond and troubleshooting.

R.
 
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Question by:rembrandt
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30 Comments
 

Expert Comment

by:EricMD
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Does the subnet mask on both machines alow one to comunicate to the other or is it set too small ???

what Ip addresses do you use and what aree the subnet masks ? or mask. If you have a dsl modem or cable modem
connected to the hub is or are the net cards configured to talk only with the modem or maybe have the same IP ???

let me know then I can give you a more detailed awnser.
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Expert Comment

by:hangman
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Under LAN Properties where it says components checked are used by this connection, click install, select protocol, and then select NetBEUI Protocol. You need to install this for your computers to see each other.
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Expert Comment

by:scraig84
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Before you go installing NetBeui (which is not necessarily needed, but may be a quick fix), I would do some IP troubleshooting first.  EricMD is on the right track.  Can you ping each machine by IP address?  What about by computer name?  If so on both, can you see shares listed if you go the run command and type \\computername for the other computer?  If all of these work, then it is purely a browsing issue.  However, if one of these don't work, you either have an IP issue or a sharing issue.
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Expert Comment

by:geoffryn
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What OS is on each system?
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Expert Comment

by:mbruner
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Do you have NetBIOS bound to TCP/IP?  NetBIOS is a layer 5/6 protocol that Microsoft uses communicate between machines.  Unfortunately, it typically needs a lower level protocol to transport it across the network.

Binding NetBIOS to TCP/IP is pretty simple.  It is typically a radio button or check box in the TCP/IP network settings.  I'd give you detailed instructions on how to check, but we need more info on what OS you are using.
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Author Comment

by:rembrandt
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- They both run Win98 Second edition.
- None of them had netbios (Didn't have time to add those yet after your answer)
- The computer Name are different on each machine.
- I cannot see the other computer when looking for Computer on the network "\\Station2" for example.  

Let me know. A little step by step would help as well. Hope I answered all your questions.

R.
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Author Comment

by:rembrandt
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- The TCP/IP Setting are set to automatic so no Specific IP address is set.
- Nothing on the Subnetmask either
- Looks like no particular setting are there for them to talk to each other. other than the DSL modem since I didn't do anything special beside installing "Client for Microsoft Network"  Ppoblem might lie there.

let me know

R.
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Expert Comment

by:SysExpert
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by:rembrandt
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Before using NetBIOS, I would try changing the Family logon to MS network Client.
This should help."

How do I do this ? is it an option in Family logon ? When clicking on Family logon the propertes is disable.
or is it another client called "MS network Client" not provided by default on Win98.

R.
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by:scraig84
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"Before using NetBIOS"??????

Since when can you not use NetBIOS?  I am assuming you mean NetBeui, but that is NOT the same thing.

Rembrandt, I am still curious as to whether you have basic IP connectivity to this machine.  Can you ping the IP address of each machine?  If so, can you ping it by name?  

Before you do anything else, you have to go to the basics - if you can't ping the other box, you can play around with other settings all day long, but you may not even have basic connectivity going here.

You mention in your original post using "uplink" mode to your DSL modem - this is not typical.  I could be wrong, but I have a hunch that one of the machines is getting an auto-assigned IP address fromt the ISP and the other is getting auto-assigned by Windows, and they can't talk this way.  If you could post up the IP addresses of the machines and their subnet masks that may help as well.
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by:rembrandt
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Thanks scraig84

Yes Meant NetBeui. I just paste Sysexpert comments.
The uplink issue might also be the problem. I will let you know later this afternoon. But I am pretty sure they both have auto assignement of IP with no value in them.

R.
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Expert Comment

by:scraig84
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Actually my NetBIOS comment was directed towards Sysexpert...

"But I am pretty
sure they both have auto assignement of IP with no value in them"

I don't understand or possibly you don't understand me.  I am not saying I think someone has plugged in an IP address, I am saying its possible that the DSL connnection has handed one of your machines an IP address - through DHCP.  It is important to see if they can ping each other via IP address or not - and if not, why.  This is why I asked for this test and the IP addresses on both machines.
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Author Comment

by:rembrandt
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Thanks scraig84

Yes Meant NetBeui. I just paste Sysexpert comments.
The uplink issue might also be the problem. I will let you know later this afternoon. But I am pretty sure they both have auto assignement of IP with no value in them.

R.
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Author Comment

by:rembrandt
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Ok. What would be the procedure ?
what should I ping. Where should I get the Ip address to ping. Let me know.

thanks.
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Expert Comment

by:mbruner
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I'm doing this from memory, so please bear with me if I'm off a little bit on the names of the tabs and what-not.

Try right-clicking on Network Neighborhood and click properties.  This will bring up your network properties dialog box.  Select Microsoft Family Logon and click the Properties button.  Go to the advanced tab and make sure that NetBIOS is bound to TCP/IP.

Give it a shot and let us know if it was already bound.

Good luck!
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Author Comment

by:rembrandt
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ok I'll try this. I will get to the pc at about 4:30 Pacific time (USA) . hopefully someone will be here. thanks

r.
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Author Comment

by:rembrandt
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ok I'll try this. I will get to the pc at about 4:30 Pacific time (USA) . hopefully someone will be here. thanks

r.
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Expert Comment

by:EricMD
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I'm sorry to rain on your party guys , but netbios isn't gonna solve this problem, the way I see it these two pc's get their IP from the modem ( correct me if I'm wrong. ) Thus from a DHCP server on the net. Netbios is a protocol that can't be routed therefor installing netbios over tcp/ip won't enable both machines to see each other. The only way these two machines are gonna see each other is we]hen the IP address of both machines are gonna be static and within the same range eg. : 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.1.2 . It's also very important that both machines have the same subnetmask on the tcpip properties eg : 255.255.0.0 they don't have to be in the same workgroup to show up on each others browslist

I'm a bit confused though on the modem subject. I assume it's a dsl modem or a cable modem. in wich case it can only connect to 1 machine the best thing to do is to add a second network card in 1 of the compu's and enable modem sharing or set this machine to become the gateway ( also set within the properties of TCP IP protocol).You need a program like winroute to mascarade your ip address to the internet.

This is a lot of work altogether but it will work.
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Expert Comment

by:geoffryn
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EricMD...You might want to do a little research on the difference between Netbios and Netbeui.
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Expert Comment

by:EricMD
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I'm sorry to rain on your party guys , but netbios isn't gonna solve this problem, the way I see it these two pc's get their IP from the modem ( correct me if I'm wrong. ) Thus from a DHCP server on the net. Netbios is a protocol that can't be routed therefor installing netbios over tcp/ip won't enable both machines to see each other. The only way these two machines are gonna see each other is we]hen the IP address of both machines are gonna be static and within the same range eg. : 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.1.2 . It's also very important that both machines have the same subnetmask on the tcpip properties eg : 255.255.0.0 they don't have to be in the same workgroup to show up on each others browslist

I'm a bit confused though on the modem subject. I assume it's a dsl modem or a cable modem. in wich case it can only connect to 1 machine the best thing to do is to add a second network card in 1 of the compu's and enable modem sharing or set this machine to become the gateway ( also set within the properties of TCP IP protocol).You need a program like winroute to mascarade your ip address to the internet.

This is a lot of work altogether but it will work.
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Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
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EricMD is on the right track
the two are connected to a mini-hub. this means that both machines are getting the ip from the provider (if your provider alows multiple machines/ip's)
well you wouldn't want everyone that your provider has to have access to your machine. Get a router, which can provde NAT and dhcp, then your network can stay private, and can share files, and also access the internet
either that or get a second NIC for one of the machines, connect one NIC to the cable/dsl and the other to the hub and enable ICS
for more info see
www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/sharing.htm
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/ics
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Accepted Solution

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scraig84 earned 200 total points
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My lord this is frustrating.  We have all made assumption after assumption on what is going on and we still don't know what the IP addresses are and whether or not the two boxes can ping each other.  Unless you know the type of DSL modem used (never mentioned) or the type of service (bridged or routed - also never mentioned) than you can't just assume that both machines get their IP addresses from the modem.  Like I said, if this is bridged service, one could be getting theirs from the modem and the other is just autoconfiguring because it doesn't get one at all.  However, rather than throw out suggestions and hypotheticals (myself included), we need to know what the two IP addresses are and if the two can even ping each other.

As far as I am concerned any further discussion on NetBIOS or NetBEUI is just plain ridiculous at this point.

Rembrandt - run winipcfg on each machine and report back the IP addresses you find - also mask and gateway information.

Good night - I'm going to bed!
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Expert Comment

by:hangman
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rembrandt  wrote
- The TCP/IP Setting are set to automatic so no Specific IP address is set.

I think that he should manually set the ip addresses of the computers, say 10.0.0.1 and 10.0.0.2.

Theny try ping 10.0.0.2 and if there is a response, try adding NetBEUI
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Expert Comment

by:EricMD
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Well geoffryn , before becoming a smart ass and telling people what to reasearch let's review the really brlliant comments you've made so far. then come back and tell me what I need to do again. If I said Netbios where I meant Netbeui at least I was trying to help. The only ting you came up with was , what os do you use. You can connect every os to another os . It might be more of an efford but non the less you still can connect them. wether it is Linux beos os2 win95 me win2k or XP they all use TCP/IP as their main protocol.



Rembrandt, When you disconnect the modem and you give both machines a static IP address within the same range and with the same subnet mask can you connect and or ping  ???
I think so start from there and then figure out a way to have both compu's use the modem. Microsoft has suplied you with some nice standard features like modem sharing that should make it very easy to do so. I still think you need to add an additional NIC to one of the compu's and hook the modem up like that.
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Author Comment

by:rembrandt
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Sorry guys I didn't get to the machines yesterday as planned. I will today though and try the different options. It generates a lot of passionate coments. I appreciate all your inputs. And will keep you posted later today. Hold the line...

Thanks

R.
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Author Comment

by:rembrandt
Comment Utility
Ok Here we go.

- I tried adding Netbui. No Difference.
- I am using a DSL modem. Verizon DSL
- When winipcfg I can see two separate IPs from each PC with the same Subnetmask 255.255.252.0
- I cannot ping the MAchine 1 IP's address from machine 2 and vice versa
- I tried assigniging a fixed IP to both PC. But they still cannot see each other or ping each other.

Help
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Author Comment

by:rembrandt
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Thank you guys. It works now. I needed to reinstall the Family Logon Service.

Thank you all for all your help. I will give the  point to scraig84 as he posted the most answer. HArd to partake.

Thanks again

R.
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Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
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What resolved the issue?
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Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
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LMAO
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Author Comment

by:rembrandt
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well all the comments help flter out the problem. And the final thing I did was removed and Reinstall Family logon.

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