AMD K6-2 500MHz with Windows 2000 (wrong processor speed))

I agree with jmiller47. There is no 100% reliable way to report the CPU speed for the operating system. If the BIOS shows the correct speed, and if the machine does not feel sluggish (you would notice if it was really slow, wouldn't you?), so it's just misreported.

I am a gamer... At lot of game can not be played in this PC because the speed of this PC also stepped down.

Don't you think this is wrong??? I know it can be a different... but is that possible to reduce until 50% CPU speed?

The effective CPU speed is made of two components: the FSB speed (Front Side Bus) and the multiplier. Now, in your case, the FSB is probably 100MHz. Now Windows may be detecting a wrong multiplier of 2.5 instead of 5, which would exacly have consequence you are experiencing.

I would download the AMD processor utility and see what speed it's REALLY running at. As far as a slow game, that COULD be anything... I would start with he Processor utility though. There is always a slim possibility that the CPU is running at half speed. This way you will know for sure. This utility won's show the programmed speed. It shows actual cycles in a test. It shows numbers like 597 ro 602Mhz not EXACTLY 600. A real processor does not run at EXACTLY 600Mhz.

Well, why not try the following: run some sort of CPU-intense benachmark, then put back the 350MHz K6-2 into the machine (along with the correct switch setup of course) and run the benchmark again. If the first run is faster, it's running at 500MHz. If it's slower, you should check the possible causes for the wrong CPU speed (like, problem with multiplier switch configuration or so). Also upgrade to the lastest BIOS if not done already.

Note: many games nowadays not only require a FAST CPU (usually more than 1GHz is suggested), but also a powerful graphics card and a fine-tuned software configuration (latest drivers and appropriate configuration of these). Also, many Direct3D drivers in Windows 2000 are less optimized (and thus slower) than the Windows 98 versions. So if you're saying that your games are not running well, this does not indicate that your CPU is not running at 500MHz.

do you believe that this PC can not run Starcraft. If you know this game...

I mean starcraft run very slow in this PC... Do u this I should step back to Windows 98SE?

I cannot tell without knowing the rest of your configuration, like, graphics card, memory, etc.
For instance, while the minimum to run Windows 2000 is 64MB, it requires at least 128MB to run ok, while Windows 98 is ok with 64MB. I would suggest to use 256MB for Widnows 2000 to run nicely.

I have no idea if it can or not (Especially without knowing the amount of RAM, the video card, if DX8.1 is installed, the correct drivers are installed and optimized, etc...) but I do know that Windows 2000 is not a gaming operating system. Yes, you can play games on it... But,it has a LOT more problems with games that most other operating systems.

If this is a gaming machine, I suggest going with Windows 98, ME, or XP. These OSs are made for gaming. If that's what you what, that's what you should install...

As I said, if you want to know if the processor is running at the correct speed, use an actual test like the AMD info application or AvonWyss's suggestion above.

PC information:
CPU       - AMD K6-2 3DNOW 500MHz
RAM       - 256MByte SDRAM
Display   - Voodoo3 2000 16MByte

I will try to tet the AMD utility on that PC and I will feedback you all.

The Voodoo3 card may be a caveat in Windows 2000 when used with original drivers. However, there are alternative/pathed driver sets available. You can find some here:
http://www.voodoofiles.com/category.asp?x=2

Good point! Now that they went out of business and their drivers were not good from the start, it's probably a good idea to try to sell it off and get yourself a new NVidia card. They are cheap now.

VooDoo=BadMojo

OK, I brought up a machine with an AMD K62-500, 256MB PC133 RAM, but it has a GEForce3 Ti500 video card...

I installed Windows 2000 SP2, DX 8.1, and the newest recommended drivers.

I then installed Starcraft and everything runs fine on that system. If the AMD utility does not return positive results, I recommend getting a new OS or video card, whichever is easier for you. I would shoot for both if possible.

Wow, I'm impressed by your efforts, jmiller47. But the result is not really surprising... ;-)

Yep...Kinda figured that.. wanted to test the game out. I've never played it. Plus I need only 310 more expert point to hit the 10,000. ;)

Yep...Kinda figured that.. wanted to test the game out. I've never played it. Plus I need only 310 more expert point to hit the 10,000. ;)

Ok, I hit those a long time ago... currently short before 150'000 ;-)
I hope you enjoy helping here at EE!

Yep, I'm still fairly new here ;-)

I want to start into the KnowledgePro section. I wish I knew about this when it forst came out...

Just do 3000 expert points a month and you qualify to get KPro for free... ;-)

Nope, I already have that...

You need an initial 10,000 points also...

Ah, yeah, but that you also almost have... *g*
Are you sitting by the computer all day long? Lokks pretty much like this to me. Everytime I post something, you answer within just a few minutes...

yep

OK.. I am back again... I downloaded some utilities from AMD website. The results are different from the result shown by Windows 2000.

From:
- AMD utility 1 (AMD CPUID )--> AMD K6-2 501MHz
- AMD utility 2 (AMD CPU Information Display Utility )--> AMD K6-2 502MHz
- Windows 2000 (WINMSD.EXE) --> AMD 251MHz.

I think your processor is fine and that Windows is misreporting your CPU speed.

I would suggest upgrading your Video card and possibly your OS.

but I am using the latest driver for my video card and updated Windows 2000 pro.

There is also a slight possibility that if you resinstall Windows (fresh) that it wil report it correctly..

but Windows 2000 doesnt like that video card and the drivers for that - the drivers are very old since they went out of business...

do you have another video card you can use or borrow to test??

What MS Technical support reply me ... there will be not any performance issue with the CPU speed numbering if the value of the CPU speed is not shown correctly (meaning to say, I can just ignore the numbering). ]

Should I just take it as one of the correct answer?

one more thing, my motherboard does not support NVIDIA RIVA TNT chipset Display card even I have update my M/B bios and patches.

hold on.. let me check on that - itll be a little bit though - i have heard of that..

cwteoh, have you looked into that site I posted for 3rd-party drivers for your video card, which may run MUCH better than the latest official ones?

I agree. The official drivers are REALLY outdated for the VooDoo cards. If there is an updated driver, go for it...

which one???

AvonWyss posted:

The Voodoo3 card may be a caveat in Windows 2000 when used with original drivers. However, there are
alternative/pathed driver sets available. You can find some here:
http://www.voodoofiles.com/category.asp?x=2 

there are hundred of Voodoo driver in there... which is better?

Uh Oh
AvonWyss will have to field that... I haven't even been there...

I would try this one. BUT!! please wait to hear from AvonWyss first. He may know better than me because of specific experience with these cards. I have only had a littel experience with these cards and never known of third-party drivers for these cards.

http://www.voodoofiles.com/6651

I don't have much Voodoo experience myself, have been on the nVidia track since their very first card (with the NV1 chip and 2MB of double-ported VRAM... before DirectX even existed, thex had 3D acceleration, and supported Sega Gamepads *g*).

Anyways, the driver you pointed out is for 9X/ME. For Windows 2000, I would try the following:
http://www.voodoofiles.com/6344

I think a really good way to make things easier for you is to try and sell your VooDoo card and buy an NVidia. I'm sure you don't want to hear that, but I think that will work out best for you.

You can buy really good NVidia cards really cheap now and the drivers are spectacular!! You'll never have problems!

I will try to send some links to cheap, good cards and look into that Motherboard issue.

:)

jmiller, many Socket 7 motherboards do have problems with nVidia cards (TNT and newer). Most of these boards do have chipset issues (ALI chipsets for instance are known to be troublesome with nVidia AGP cards), and some also have power issues (e.g. the AGP bus is unable to provide enough power for the card to run currectly).

I agree that the nVidia cards are great on never boards (and I use them a lot myself), but it my not be the optimal solution in this case!

Ahh! That's very good to know. If that is the case, I would try to get any new driver that you can from that third-party site and try to get all the performance you can from that card.

A new motherboard, CPU, memory, and video card update MIGHT become a bit too pricey to play a game. :)

in http://www.ali.com.tw/eng/support/support_driver.htm website, there is a latest AGP driver/patch (AGP Driver 1.90) can be downloaded. But I am not that brave to try on it.

Should I go for it? By the way, is my Voodoo 3 cause my PC gone slow?

I did some searches on the net and came up with the following conclusion:

* TNT cards and newer can be troublesome (as predicted). Especially, when there is no power problem, they seem to work with AGP1X only, but constant lockups with 2X.

* Other than that, the MB seems okay. However, I would install the AGP driver/patch (maybe do a backup of your system first, so that you can revert if needed).

The cause of your PC gone slow is very likely the *combination* of the Voodoo3 with Windows 2000. If you have the chance to try out an nVidia card, I would do that and see whether it works and if there is a real difference. I would try to get my hands on a GeForce2 MX400, which should not consume too much power but still be pretty good in performance. nVidia's support in means of drivers rock, they are still providing their newest drivers for all models down to TNT!

if I upgrade my ALi AGP driver, will it fix my NVIDIA problem? how can I check my AGP whether it is version 1 or version 2?

I don't know about how much it fixes or not. Haven't used Socket7 boards for years...

From the Gigabyte web site. Avonwyss, do you know how to tell the AGP version from the speed of the bus, otherwise I will look around for it. I used to have an article about that around here somewhere....

GA-5AA (Rev 3.2)
ALi Aladdin V AGPset


PROCESSOR
 Socket 7 for Intel® MMX™, AMD K6®-2, K6®-3, IBM®/Cyrix®, IDT™ processors
 Supports multiplier 1.5/2.0....../5.5 for future processors
 66/75*/83*/95/100/105*/110*/115*/120*/125*/130*/135*/140* MHz FSB
 CPU Voltage 2.0V~3.5V  


CHIPSET  ALi M1542 & M1543C AGPset

DRAM
 8MB to 768MB SDRAM size
 3 x 3.3V DIMM sockets  
 Supports 8/16/32/64/128/256 MB EDO/SDRAM DIMM module  
 Supports ECC Type DIMM module (72 bits)

CACHE MEMORY  512KB PB SRAM on board  

SLOT
 1 x AGP slot support 66/133 MHz speed
 3 x PCI Slot Supports 33MHz & PCI 2.2 compliant
 2 x ISA Slot

I/O    
 2 x Ultra DMA 33/66 Bus Master IDE ports on board
 1 x FDD, AT Keyboard on board
 2 x COM, 1 x LPT, PS/2 Mouse by cable
 2 x USB ports by cable (optional)

POWER
 AT & ATX power connector
 Power-on by K/B, LAN, RTC, Modem (COM A or B) & Switch (ATX Power)  
 Power-off by K/B, Windows® 98 shut down & Switch (ATX Power)
 Stop CPU fan when entering suspend mode

FORM FACTOR
 Baby AT, 4 layer PCB (22.0*21.0 cm)

BIOS
 1Mbit flash RAM
 AMI BIOS with enhanced ACPI feature for PC98/Win98 Compliance, Green, PnP, DMI, INT 13 (>8.4GB) & Anti-Virus functions
 IDE#1~#4, SCSI, LS 120, ZIP & CD-ROM bootable

OTHER FEATURER
 Includes Wake-On-LAN header (WOL)
 Poly fuse for keyboard & USB overcurrent protection

DRIVER
 ALi Ultra DMA 33/66 Bus Master IDE Driver
 ALi AGP GART VxD driver
 

DOH! I found it!

It is AGP 1.0... First page of the motherboard manual.

There is a good possibility that upgrading your AGP driver would not fix the NVidia problem, but that is my own opinion. I don't think it will help since the Nvidia problem is due to not having enough power for the cards from older motherboads. It may work, but you may want to upgrade the driver and then borrow a card from someone and test it out before buying one.

I hope this helps

I have tried to update my ALi AGP Driver last week. And it didn't fix the problem. My AGP shows me that it has some memory write allocation problem, which I do not know what is that.

Do you think it is the best choice to get a new Celeron or Duron with a new mother to solve this problem?

Well, upgrading your hardware may be the best solution to remain compatible with newer graphics cards. However, I don't know how much you're willing (and/or able) to spend for this, so I cannot give more advice than that.

What if I step back from Windows 2K Pro. to windows 98 or ME... will my performance increase?

Most likely, but it is not guaranteed. And those Operating Systems ARE a bit more prone to crashes..

I agree with jmiller. Windows 9x/ME has smaller requirements to the machine, but offers less in means of system features like program security etc.

I wasnt thinking so much security as I don't think you really require that, just that I know of lots of times people wind up rebooting multiple times a day with a Win 9x/ME machine...

For a gaming machine, I recommend XP, if you can't then it's a toss-up between Win98 and ME, but not Windows 2000 or NT for a gaming machine...

Well, XP puts quite high demands to processor, memory and graphics; all these cute new features do reuslt in more ressource usage. Therefore, I guess that XP would NOT be the good choice on the currently existing hardware platform (memory would be OK, but the rest... well...).

Right, XP would only work well if a new MB, etc was purchased...

I decided to move down to Windows 98SE ... any sugestion?

Create a list of your hardware and download the newest drivers ahead of time.

how should I give this point?

If you have a hard time choosing one person, just split the points however you see fit.

Avonwyss, I'm not sure how this is done. If you can give cwteoh some insight on how this may be done I'm sure he would appreciate it. ;)

Thanks

I agree.... but I need someone to teach me.

Well, hopefully, Avonwyss can enlighten us both in the morning. Otherwise, I will talk to the site's tech support. I know that this issue has come up many times before...

Hi.  As ComTech advised you in your Community Support question, you can award more than one experts by either just creating a new question in this same topic area for other experts you wish to award and entitle it
Points for __expertname__ and in the comment field pasting the link to this primary question, so they can respond and you can "accept and grade" to close that, or if the split award is less than this original question value, include in the Community Support request whom you wish to award and/or what the original question value should be for the one you wish to award in the primary question thread.  We then refund the delta, you accept one expert comment here, and then post a new one as noted above.

Thanks
:) Moondancer - EE Moderator

I have made this easier for you and split the points for you.  Both experts received half.

Points for AvonWyss -> https://www.experts-exchange.com/jsp/qShow.jsp?qid=20309970

:) Moondancer - EE Moderator

i know exactly what your problem is... my dad has the exact same motherboard but with an amd k6/2 400mhz. win2k detected the cpu as a 200mhz, although the bios said it was a 400mhz.

after a lot of playing around... flashing various versions of the bios, i found its nothing to do with the hardware or operating system as such... its actually your bios version. When the bios version goes over a certain version (i cant remember the exact version at the min) it enables ACPI on the motherboard, which win2k decides to interpret wrong therefore the cpu speed coming up as half the correct speed. Although you notice no speed decrease, when you flash the bios to an older version (you WILL have to reinstall win2k... sorry, i had to reinstall it too), you'll find that ACPI has gone and it runs as a standard pc with APM (if you use an atx case), and the cpu will be detected as full speed and it will run pretty quick compared to how it did before.

Its one of those scenarios... "new and improved"... nah... I'll stick wiv me old trusty version which does me fine :)

good luck.

snapshotuk, there is no need to use an old BIOS to prevent Windows 2000 from using the ACPI kernel on a specific installation.

When you start the setup process, when the message "Press F6 to..." appears, you can press F5 (I think it was, or another F key) and setup will ask you later on what kernel shall be used for this installation.

I would always use the most recent BIOS version because it usually fixes various issues with bus and ram timings and compatibility (especially also with AGP).

I agree. And you are correct. It is F5. ;-)