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Windows XP & Win98SE Home Networking Problem

I am using a Linksys Cable Router for Cable Modem Sharing and for my home network.  The problem is, ever since installing the router, I can't get my 2 pc's networked.  One is running Windows XP and the other Win98SE.

Both PC's connect to the internet through the router just fine.

Any idea what the issue is and how to fix it?

The Microsoft Site states:

CAUSE
The problem may occur if your hardware router has a built-in firewall that has closed ports.

RESOLUTION
To resolve this issue, open the appropriate ports.

What ports are they talking about?  Is this really the cause?


Thanks,

tcoc
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tcoc
Asked:
tcoc
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1 Solution
 
ridCommented:
File sharing etc over the network needs communicatin through certain "ports", different from the ones used by internet browsing, FTP:ing etc. If these ports are closed ( for security reasons) you may have a problem. You should try to find something in the documentatin for the router about firewall settings.

Regards
/RID
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scraig84Commented:
Are they all connected via a hub?  What do you mean exactly by "can't get them networked"?  Can the machines ping each other by IP address?  What about by name?
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tcocAuthor Commented:
The machines are connected via a router.  I tried to set them up using the Win XP networking wizard, but it isn't working.

What I mean by "can't get them networked" is that they don't show up in each other's Network Places.

I used to have just a hub, and when I did, I got them networked no problem.

I haven't tried pinging them yet and I've never tried pinging a machine by its name.  Does it work the same way?

tcoc
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scraig84Commented:
If they are connected via the router, I am assuming it has an integrated hub.  

Sounds to me like you have some simple browsing issues that can be solved with some entries into the PC's lmhosts files.  Even if you can't see them via Net Hood, you can probably still access them.  I would try the ping tests by address and by name to what does and doesn't work.  I seriously doubt this is a port issue.  These routers should not be blocking anything between two internal devices.
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tcocAuthor Commented:
Okay, so what are the "PC's lmhosts files" and how do I access them?

tcoc
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scraig84Commented:
They are local files that provide NetBIOS name resolution for Microsoft names to IP addresses.  Once you perform the ping tests, we'll know whether they are needed.  There are sample files by default on the machines, but you would need to create them if they are needed (no worries - they'll be simple).  
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SysExpertCommented:
SInce adding the router, I think that your IP addresses may have changed, since it is probably using DHCP and NAT.

1)Print out and post the ipconfig /all
from both machines

2) Make sure that the subnets, and workgroup names are the same.

3) Turn off any software firewalls on the computers.

see the info below for more details.

See          http://www.practicallynetworked.com/
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/howto/
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/specialapps.htm 
Need to map the port, as you are using ICS (network address translation)
  http://www.sohointer.net/howto/
http://www.sohointer.net/top/kwe-faq.htm
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/networking/peer.htm
http://www.dslreports.com/information/rated/PPPoE
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsME/using/homenetworking/articles/default.asp
 www.speedguide.net
http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html Firewall and security for home and offices
Test firewall ports  and port blocking http://grc.com/
http://www.nipc.gov/warnings/computertips.htm
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/columns/security/aus1001.asp
Protect DSL or boradband connection. ICF, ICS firewall security
Home PC Firewall Guide - http://www.firewallguide.com 

I hope this helps !

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ridCommented:
It might be easier to forget about networking with TCP/IP. Enable/install NETBEUI protocol. Ensure that computers belong to the same workgroup and have individual names. This should do the trick. File and printer saring independent on IP addressing.

Regards
/RID
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tcocAuthor Commented:
I tried pinging them by IP address and they can't see each other.

tcoc
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tcocAuthor Commented:
rid,

I have NETBEUI installed and both computers belong to the same workgroup but still no luck.

tcoc
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tcocAuthor Commented:
SysExpert,

The subnet mask is the same for both.

tcoc
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SysExpertCommented:
1) Check the cabling.
2) DIsable any firewalls

3) Try pinging the IP address of the machine itself and Localhost

4) Get the newest drivers for all NIC cards.

5) What happens if you try using your Hub again ?

6) Read the Docs on the router. Make sure that it is using th defaults.

I hope this helps !
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pjknibbsCommented:
If this is some sort of broadband Internet setup you have here, I have a feeling the router must be attached to one PC and one PC ONLY--most ISPs assign IP addresses to machines via DHCP, and this can't be done if the router is attached to multiple machines.

The usual arrangement here is to have the router attached to one machine (in this case probably the XP box, since it has the built-in firewall), then to network the two machines together seperately and use Internet Connection Sharing to allow the second machine to access the internet. (Note: this means the Internet-attached machine must have two network cards in it, one for the router and the other to connect to the second PC).
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SysExpertCommented:
tocc :
What model router are you using ?

How many LAN ports does it have ?

Have you tried using the HUB to see if the LAN works ?

Please keep us informed.

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tcocAuthor Commented:
SysExpert,

1) Check the cabling.
- I haven't checked, but it should be fine since both pc's can access the internet.

2) Disable any firewalls
- I have already disabled the firewalls.

3) Try pinging the IP address of the machine itself and Localhost
- I have successfully pinged the local host from each pc.
- I haven't tried pinging the IP address of the machine itself yet.

4) Get the newest drivers for all NIC cards.
- I'll have to try this.

5) What happens if you try using your Hub again ?
- My hub bit the dust, which is why I bought the router.

6) Read the Docs on the router. Make sure that it is using th defaults.
- I have already set the router to the defaults

tcoc
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tcocAuthor Commented:
SysExpert,

What model router are you using?
- I am using the Linksys BEFSR41 EtherFast® Cable/DSL Router with 4-Port Switch.

How many LAN ports does it have?
- 4 ports.

tcoc
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tcocAuthor Commented:
I have contacted Linksys tech support and they told me that they only support connecting to the internet, whcih I can do.

They will not support setting up a home network.

I seem to remember stumbling across an article somewhere about inherent problems with networking an XP with a 98 machine.

Has anyone heard about this?

tcoc
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tcocAuthor Commented:
pjknibbs,

The Router is attached to the 2 pc's:

- ISP Cable into the Router
- Router connected to the NIC cards in each of the PC's.

What does everyone else think about pjknibbs' suggestion of:

"have the router attached to one machine (in this case probably the XP box, since it has the built-in firewall), then to network the two machines together seperately and
use Internet Connection Sharing to allow the second machine to access the internet. (Note: this means
the Internet-attached machine must have two network cards in it, one for the router and the other to connect to the second PC)."?

tcoc
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scraig84Commented:
His suggestion defeats the purpose of having a router rather than a simple hub.  Also, you would need two cards in the XP box - 1 for Internet, one for network.  What you are trying to do is possible, but something is wrong.  I don't think its a driver issue or cable issue - these aren't going to cause you to work fine on the Intenet, but not ping each other.  You either have a configuration issue on the router or on the workstations.  I have worked with these routers before and out of the box they do not block this communication.

What are the IP addresses of the two machines you have?  Are you using DHCP or do you have the IP addresses statically set?  
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tcocAuthor Commented:
BTW,

I had a very similar problem to this when I was using a hub.  The only way to resolve it was to install NETBEUI.

However, this isn't helping with the router.  Also, this seems to be a very common problem as it is all over the MS XP Networking Newsgroup at the MS site.  Unfortunately, there don't seem to be many answers posted.

Lastly, I have visited the  http://www.practicallynetworked.com/ and followed the directions to th best of my ability, but to no avail.

You would think that with such a common problem, Microsoft would post a solution in BIG BOLD LETTERS right on their XP support page.

tcoc
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scraig84Commented:
You probably had this problem with the hub because there is a configuration issue.

Like I said, what are the IP addresses on these machines?  For that matter, what are their subnet masks and default gateways as well.  Do they use DHCP to get this info or is it statically configured?  What is the same info for the inside Ethernet address on the router?
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tcocAuthor Commented:
scraig84,

The Subnet Masks are:

255.255.255.0  

I'm not at the network right now, but I beleive the IP Addresses are:
198.168.1.100
&
198.168.1.101 or something close to that anyway...

They are using DHCP

The Router is using the same subnet mask and the IP Addresss is:
198.168.1.1

This is standard out of the user guide:  ftp://ftp.linksys.com/pdf/befsr11_befsr41ug.pdf


I can't give you the Default Gateway until I get home.

tcoc
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scraig84Commented:
Yeah, that sounds right.  If you are using DHCP, the default gateway should be OK.

Can you ping one way but not the other?  In other words if you ping the 98 from the XP machine, does it work but not the other way around?

I know that XP turns on an internal firewall by default.  I think you access the control of this through the System Control Panel icon.  It's in one of the tabs in there.  Has this been shut off?  I know you said you made sure that the firewall was turned off, but I figured you were referring to that of the router, not necessarily in XP.
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tcocAuthor Commented:
scraig84,

I can't ping either computer from the other.

I think I shut off the XP internal firewall, but I'll have to double check it when I get home.


Thanks again to everyone for all the help.

tcoc
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ridCommented:
How do you mean "using DHCP" and yet have set IP addresses? I should think things would be easier if one or the other system were chosen. The router has an IP - this must be entered as the default gateway on the machines on your LAN. The machines themselves have their own IP:s - like you mentioned (192.168...). Each machine should be able to ping:
a)itself on 127.0.0.1 and
b)the gateway on 192.168.1.1 and
c)the other machine(s) with its/their IP.

If you choose to use DHCP on your LAN, you must have a router that can be DHCP server, and set the network properties on your machines accordingly (enable DHCP client).

If the router has several ports on the "inside", one would tend to assume it is a router/hub combination. Are there activity indicators for each port? Do they show activity when you try pinging internally? Is there anything useful at all in the manual about this situation?

Regards
/RID
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tcocAuthor Commented:
rid,

I haven't set the IP addresses, that's just how they show up when I run ipconfig /all on the individual pc's.

I haven't set the default gateways on the pc's.  Do you think that could be the problem?

Each machine can ping the gateway, but not each other.

I don't know what you mean by:
"Each machine should be able to ping:
a)itself on 127.0.0.1"

Also, I don't believe that I have enabled DHCP on the clients, though I have enabled it on the router.

I have looked in the manual (many times), but haven't seen anything about this issue.  Also, there isn't much on configuring the clients, but I'll take another look.

tcoc
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tcocAuthor Commented:
I formatted the hard drive on the 98 pc and changed the OS to Win ME.  After doing that, I can ping each client from the other as long as my Norton Firewall is disabled.

Using 98, I could not do this even with the firewall disabled.


The Default gateway and the DHCP server is:  192.168.1.1

The IP addresses are:

XP - 192.168.1.102
ME - 192.168.1.101
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tcocAuthor Commented:
I rebooted the ME computer after shutting off the Norton Firewall and I can see everything!!!!

Thanks to everyone for all the help.  I still dunno why this wouldn't work with Win98.

Does anyone know how I can get all this crap to work with Norton now?

tcoc
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ridCommented:
127.0.0.1 is a general loopback address.
/RID
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SysExpertCommented:
You are going to have to read the norton DOCs on how to open ports for your LAN. It may be on a FAQ on the Symantec site, since this should be very vommon.

I use the free ZoneAlarm from Zonelabs, and it has an advanced button that allow inputting IP addresses of the local computers, that should not be blocked.

I hope this helps !
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tcocAuthor Commented:
Thanks to everyone for the help.

I won't hold up awarding the points for this as soem people spent a lot of time providing me with direction.

tcoc
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tcocAuthor Commented:
I wish I could break up the points amongst a few of you guys, since I got so much help.

Thanks again,

tcoc
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SysExpertCommented:
tcoc  : Please put in a request to redistribute the points in any way you feel fit :


You can put in a request to                    
http://www.experts-exchange.com/jsp/qList.jsp?ta=commspt 
to distribute the points in any manner you think is proper.
This is especially true when you think you have received good information from more than one person.

Also see  http://www.experts-exchange.com/jsp/cmtyQuestAnswer.jsp

     I hope this helps !
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