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System Commander 7 (Win98,Win2K,MBR problems)

Posted on 2002-05-31
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Last Modified: 2008-03-17
I've been using System Commander 7 as my boot manager. It's worked fine until I installed Win2K. I couldn't configure it to boot up Win2K, I tried everything i could find in their help menu but i still had problems. I tried just booting directly to the NTFS partition and now  somthing is corrupted. When my computer boots it doesn't load SC. Instead a little menu comes up that asks me to type the number of the partition i want to boot. No matter which number I type it fails to load. I was able to use a bootdisk to run fdisk /mbr and then boot in to Windows98. I then disabled SC. Now when I run the SC MBR installer I get this error: Installation Cannot Proceed - Unable to Access Boot Drive. I really want to access Win2K and I don't have a emergency repair disk. I tried to re-install Win2K on to the NTFS partition on my harddrive. When I select the NTFS drive it acts as if I selected the C drive (FAT32). Also, it tells me that there is a serious problem with my C drive and that i should format it. I really don't want to format my drive (the only backup I have is CD-RW).

Also, ever since I did the fdisk /mbr my Windows 98 only boots to the command line. I have to type win.com to get it to boot, and this disables support for multiple monitors as well as video playback. How can I fix this?

Summary of what I want for the points I'm offering:
*Fix my partition data
*Get SC7 to work as my bootloader
*Get Win98 to load without typing win.com
*Allow me to boot both Win98 and Win2K from SC7

**IT WOULD BE VERY VERY GOOD IF NO FORMATTING WAS REQUIRED**

(I have a 60 GB drive and both of my partitions are 15GB. I have enough room to make a copy of 1 of them if needed)
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Question by:qqqqqqqqq
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19 Comments
 
LVL 44

Expert Comment

by:CrazyOne
ID: 7048330
In Win98 open Notepad and from Notepad open C:\MSDOS.SYS
look for this line
BootWin=
And if isn't BootWin=1 then set so it is. This should Force Windows to start on its own.
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LVL 44

Expert Comment

by:CrazyOne
ID: 7048337
See if this helps

http://www.v-com.com/support/sup_bul_sc7_2.html

System Commander 7 Technical Bulletin
     
    The Windows NT/2000/XP boot choice does not appear
     
    Issue: In rare cases, System Commander will not provide a boot choice for the NT/2000/XP choice, more often when NT/2000/XP was an upgrade on top of Windows 95/98/Me.
    Occurs: v7.01 only, CD-ROM only.
     
    Solution: Download and install the current release. SC7 Free Maintenance Release
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LVL 44

Expert Comment

by:CrazyOne
ID: 7048349
Well since you just installed Win2000 you might try this to get Win2000 back. Then run System Commander

This is from the MS Word doc that can be downloaded from this link
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/reskit/samplechapters/fndc/fndc_rec.exe

To perform an in-place upgrade of Windows 2000
     1. Mount the Windows 2000 Setup CD.
     2. Press Enter to install a copy of Windows 2000.
     3. When you are prompted to repair the existing Windows 2000 installation, press R.


Note
Windows 2000 Setup performs an in-place upgrade of your existing installation. However, you might lose some customized settings of your system files.
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Author Comment

by:qqqqqqqqq
ID: 7048378
the msdos doesn't not have a BootWin line but it has a BootGUI line and that is set to 0. Is this the problem? I am using SC 7.03 not 7.01. It does give me a choice to boot Win2K (at least it used to when it worked). However clicking this generates the error that ntoskrnl.exe is missing. I tried editing the boot.ini file to different partitions but it still didn't work. When i first viewed that file it was set to partition #3 (same as the number SC labels my drive as in their paritioning program)

Finally, i can't re-enable system commander because of the error I posted in my original question.
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Author Comment

by:qqqqqqqqq
ID: 7048420
i changed BootGUI to 1 and still get the same problems (it say it's using the MS-DOS 16bit filesystem, not 32bit protected mode). This prevents me from using multiple displays.
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LVL 63

Expert Comment

by:SysExpert
ID: 7049048
1) Boot from a Botable floppy.

2) Run the SCdisk utility that allows you to hide/unhide and choose active partitons.

3) Set it to unhide C: and set it active.

4) This should allow you to boot, and then, you can install SC hopfully.

I would also use scout to capture your partiton setup, and find out where the SC thinks it has botable partitions.

If this does not work, you may have to do something similar with a different partition.

I hope this helps !

0
 

Author Comment

by:qqqqqqqqq
ID: 7049092
I already can boot in to my C drive (start Win98). However it won't let me re-install SC to the MBR. Look below. There appears to be some crazy stuff going on with my C drive.

here's what looks to be the important chunk of the Scout output: (0=Win98-FAT32 and 3=Win2K-NTFS)

B. Partition Data and Checks
   MBR type:  not SYSCMNDR

   Drive 0 - Warning - First sector size mismatch
     BIOS Parameters: Sector = 63    Head = 254    Cylinder = 1023
     EBIOS Detected:  Total sectors = 117231408 (57241 MB)
   Drive &        --Starting--  ---Ending---    -----Sectors----  --Size (MB)--
   Partition  ID  Sec  Hd  Cyl  Sec  Hd  Cyl     First     Total   Total Unused
   +0-0        C    1   1 1022   63 254 1022  86494023  30732282  15,005      
    0-1        F    1   0 1022   63 254 1022  55777680  30716280  14,998      -
      log-1   EB    1   1 1022   63 254 1022        63   9221247   4,502      
      ext-2    5    1   0 1022   63 254 1022   9221310  21494970  10,495      -
      log-2   82    1   1 1022   63 254 1022        63   1028097     502      
      ext-3    5    1   0 1022   63 254 1022  10249470  20466810   9,993      -
      log-3   83    1   1 1022   63 254 1022        63  14329917   6,997      
      ext-4    5    1   0 1022   63 254 1022  24579450   6136830   2,996      -
      log-4   83    1   1 1022   63 254 1022        63   6136767   2,996      
    0-2       83    1   1    0   63 254  573        63   9221247   4,502      
    0-3        7    1   0 1022   63 254 1022  25061400  30716280  14,998 FSv3.0

     Partition error codes following values (if any):
         w = warning       (orange in SCIN display)
         m = major warning (magenta in SCIN display)
         r = real problem  (red in SCIN display)
     Ignore all partitions with id 5 (invisible extended partitions)
     '+' indicates bootable/active flag set on this partition

C. Boot Record Checks (FAT/NTFS, first drive)

   Drive: 0   Partition: 0   bootable: 80   Id:  C   FAT32
   This is the MultiFAT partition.
   Problem with boot record detected.
      1)  Sectors per cluster (power of 2)                    14 r
      2)  Bytes per sector (should be 512)                    29696 r
      3)  Number of FATs (always 2)                           8 r
      4)  Start of root directory                             2650275584  
      5)  Media descriptor byte (never below F0h)              6 r
      6)  Sectors per track (1 to 63 valid)                   8  
      7)  Total sectors from partition entry                  30732282
      8)  Total sectors from boot (should match partition)    3122563374  

     Boot record error codes following values:
         w = warning       (orange in SCIN display)
         m = major warning (magenta in SCIN display)
         r = real problem  (red in SCIN display)

   Drive: 0   Partition: 3   bootable:  0   Id:  7   NTFS
      1)  Sectors per cluster (power of 2)                    8  
      2)  Bytes per sector (should be 512)                    512  
      3)  Total sectors from partition entry                  30716280
      4)  Total sectors from boot (should match partition)    30716279  
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LVL 63

Accepted Solution

by:
SysExpert earned 500 total points
ID: 7049127
It appears that your MBR has been corrupted.

If you can, I would use an imaging tool like norton to backup
1) The entire dsk as is.

2) An image f each partition.

After you are fully backed up, I would use Norton,  or Ontrack to try and repair the system.

Make sure that you ackup the MBR when asked to by these programs so that you can restore the original, if they mess up.

Here is more info :


                 http://www.cdicomp.com/html/recovernt.html
                 http://www.pixel.com.au/undelete.htm
                 http://www.hallogram.com/undelete/

http://www.runtime.org/gdb.htm
http://www.restorer2000.com/r2k.htm  NT and win2k partiton and data recovery
http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/stories/info/0,10615,70584,00.html

ftp://ftp.powerquest.com/pub/utilities/partinfo.exe   partition info

From: CrazyOne From: CrazyOne
                                                        Date: 05/29/2002 09:04PM PST
               Take look at these.

               easy recovery
               Free Version Personal Edition shows you all the files you could recover with a purchased copy of the
               Personal Edition.
               Personal Edition recovers files from DOS, Windows 3.x, 95, 98 and Me, IDE/ATA/EIDE hard drives, SCSI
               hard drives, systems, floppy diskettes, Zip and Jaz removable media.
               Free Version Professional Edition shows you all the files you could recover with a purchased copy of
               the Professional Edition.
               Professional Edition recovers files from DOS, Windows 3.x, 95, 98, Me, XP, 2000 and NT systems, IDE/ATA/EIDE
               hard drives, SCSI hard drives, floppy diskettes, Zip and Jaz removable media, and provides advanced
               data recovery options.
               http://www.ontrack.com/easyrecovery/

               File Rescue 2.5
               Web:http://www.file-rescue.com/

               GetDataBack for FAT and NTFS
               GetDataBack is safe, because it' s read-only, which means the program will never attempt to write to
               the drive you are about to recover.
               The software enables the regular user to conduct his own data recovery by guiding him through five easy
               to understand steps, thus gives the advanced user the possibility to interfere with the recovery and
               improve the results, by examining the scan log, the file system details, file and directory information,
               by selecting the sector range to be scanned, by choosing excessive search for file systems or search
               for lost files, by calling Runtime' s DiskExplorer.
               GetDataBack recovers data from

               Hard Drives
               Partitions
               Floppy Drives
               Drive Images
               Zip/Jaz Drives
               http://www.runtime.org/

               For NTFS
               http://www.restorer2000.com/r2k.htm

               Fast File Undelete
               http://www.dtidata.com/

               Undelete
               http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/undelete.stm

               File Recover 2000
               http://www.filerecover.com/

               R-Tools
               http://www.r-tt.com/

               Lost and Found
               Lost and Found recovers data from drives that have been formatted, lost partitions through accidental
               deletion, etc. This applies to FAT or FAT32 partitions only. If the disk is still capable of spinning,
               there is a chance of recovery.
               Lost and Found only performs read operations on the affected hard disk. Many utilities attempt to repair
               the hard disk and corrupt data in the process. Since Lost and Found only performs read operations, it
               does not risk the integrity of the data on the disk.
               http://www.powerquest.com/support/primus/id160.html

               File Restore
               If you've deleted your data and you want to get it back, you need FileRestore.
               FileRestore is a simple, easy-to-use tool for recovering files that have been lost or deleted from your
               Windows system.
               Designed for Windows XP, 2000, NT, Me, and 9x
               http://www.winternals.com/products/repairandrecovery/filerestore.asp

               Disk Commander
               In virtually any situation where you need to recover lost data from a Windows system, Disk Commander
               is the solution. Disk Commander performs a wide range of data recovery operations.
               http://www.winternals.com/products/repairandrecovery/diskcommander.asp

               Drive Rescue
               Supported file systems: FAT 12/16/32
               Windows. 95, 98, ME, NT, 2000 or XP
               Free
               http://home.arcor.de/christian_grau/rescue/

               Tool to check and undelete partition
               Works with the following partitions:
               - FAT12 FAT16 FAT32
               - Linux
               - Linux SWAP (version 1 and 2)
               - NTFS (Windows NT)
               - BeFS (BeOS)
               - UFS (BSD)
               - Netware
               - RaiserFS
               http://www.cgsecurity.org//testdisk.html

               DFSee
               http://www.fsys.demon.nl/

               MRECOVER
               http://kristenonline.com/lain/cih/mrecintro.htm

               Emergency Undelete
               http://www.c2000.com/software/download.htm

               Unerase
               http://www.filesearching.com/cgi-bin/s?q=unerase.exe&t=f&d=&l=en&x=11&y=17

               Back2Life
               http://www.simtel.net/pub/pd/57588.html

               Hard Drive Mechanic
               http://www.highergroundsoftware.com/6.html
               It's true. Even if you just re-formatted your entire hard drive, you can still get all of your data
               back because, unlike what most people believe, formatting does NOT erase your files!
               With Hard Drive Mechanic's Unformat Feature, you can restore all of your valuable data in about 10 minutes!
               demo version:
               http://www.highergroundsoftware.com/downloads2.htm


               Or

               http://www.ontrack.com/datarecovery/
               Ontrack offers a full range of data recovery solutions to address your data loss needs. Unlike other
               data recovery companies, Ontrack provides exclusive and patented solutions that do not require you to
               send in your media for recovery. In situations where the hardware is functioning normally, our patented
               Remote Data Recovery service and EasyRecovery software solutions can solve your data loss needs safely
               and effectively in a matter of hours. If another company claims that there is no alternative to shipping
               your drive, it's because they don't offer an alternative. For situations in which the hardware is physically
               failing, our In-Lab services will utilize our Class 100 clean-rooms to retrieve your mission critical
               data.          
   
 Drive Rescue
               Supported file systems: FAT 12/16/32
               Windows? 95, 98, ME, NT, 2000 or XP
               Free
               http://home.arcor.de/christian_grau/rescue/index.html

http://cvs.sslug.dk/hdmaint/hdm_rescue.html   partition recovery
http://sac-ftp.gratex.sk/utildisk18.html      Partiton and fat tools.

I hope this helps !
0
 

Author Comment

by:qqqqqqqqq
ID: 7049153
i will be getting another 60GB drive this week. is ther a way i could transfer the data to that HDD and then totally format this one and get it back? or will copying the partitions copy over the defective settings?
0
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LVL 63

Expert Comment

by:SysExpert
ID: 7049162
If you use ghost, I am pretty sure that if you do it by partition, then the MBR is not changed ( so that it will not wipe out the good MBR with a bad one.

In any case, use one of the toos above to save the MBR before restoring the partition.
Backup each partition separately and you should be OK.

You might want to do a test restore before wiping the old drive.


I hope this helps !
0
 
LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:trekie1
ID: 7052990
all things considered  I would suggest when you get the new drive...set it up the way you want it partition wise then clean install win98 and then clean install win2k in that order and use its boot loader for both OS's instead of SC (ofcourse it can be installed later if you want)...after this slave your old drive and copy over any data you want   afterwards I would consider a low level format of the old drive (most drive manufactors offer some sort of utility to do this) or at least run a drive check and repartition/format before reuse

just my 2 cents        James
0
 

Author Comment

by:qqqqqqqqq
ID: 7068090
i tried using ghost. when i go in to the partition section and select my harddrive it says somthing about bad BIOS partition sectors and panics, then crashes. How can i backup my data?
0
 
LVL 44

Expert Comment

by:CrazyOne
ID: 7068205
Take look at these.

easy recovery
Free Version Personal Edition shows you all the files you could recover with a purchased copy of the Personal Edition.
Personal Edition recovers files from DOS, Windows 3.x, 95, 98 and Me, IDE/ATA/EIDE hard drives, SCSI hard drives, systems, floppy diskettes, Zip and Jaz removable media.
Free Version Professional Edition shows you all the files you could recover with a purchased copy of the Professional Edition.
Professional Edition recovers files from DOS, Windows 3.x, 95, 98, Me, XP, 2000 and NT systems, IDE/ATA/EIDE hard drives, SCSI hard drives, floppy diskettes, Zip and Jaz removable media, and provides advanced data recovery options.
http://www.ontrack.com/easyrecovery/

File Rescue 2.5
Web:http://www.file-rescue.com/

GetDataBack for FAT and NTFS
GetDataBack is safe, because it' s read-only, which means the program will never attempt to write to the drive you are about to recover.
The software enables the regular user to conduct his own data recovery by guiding him through five easy to understand steps, thus gives the advanced user the possibility to interfere with the recovery and improve the results, by examining the scan log, the file system details, file and directory information, by selecting the sector range to be scanned, by choosing excessive search for file systems or search for lost files, by calling Runtime' s DiskExplorer.
GetDataBack recovers data from

Hard Drives
Partitions
Floppy Drives
Drive Images
Zip/Jaz Drives
http://www.runtime.org/

For NTFS
http://www.restorer2000.com/r2k.htm

Fast File Undelete
http://www.dtidata.com/

Undelete
http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/undelete.stm

File Recover 2000
http://www.filerecover.com/

R-Tools
http://www.r-tt.com/

Lost and Found
Lost and Found recovers data from drives that have been formatted, lost partitions through accidental deletion, etc. This applies to FAT or FAT32 partitions only. If the disk is still capable of spinning, there is a chance of recovery.
Lost and Found only performs read operations on the affected hard disk. Many utilities attempt to repair the hard disk and corrupt data in the process. Since Lost and Found only performs read operations, it does not risk the integrity of the data on the disk.
http://www.powerquest.com/support/primus/id160.html

File Restore
If you've deleted your data and you want to get it back, you need FileRestore.
FileRestore is a simple, easy-to-use tool for recovering files that have been lost or deleted from your Windows system.
Designed for Windows XP, 2000, NT, Me, and 9x
http://www.winternals.com/products/repairandrecovery/filerestore.asp

Disk Commander
In virtually any situation where you need to recover lost data from a Windows system, Disk Commander is the solution. Disk Commander performs a wide range of data recovery operations.
http://www.winternals.com/products/repairandrecovery/diskcommander.asp

Drive Rescue
Supported file systems: FAT 12/16/32
Windows. 95, 98, ME, NT, 2000 or XP
Free
http://home.arcor.de/christian_grau/rescue/

Tool to check and undelete partition
Works with the following partitions:
- FAT12 FAT16 FAT32
- Linux
- Linux SWAP (version 1 and 2)
- NTFS (Windows NT)
- BeFS (BeOS)
- UFS (BSD)
- Netware
- RaiserFS
http://www.cgsecurity.org//testdisk.html

DFSee
http://www.fsys.demon.nl/

MRECOVER
http://kristenonline.com/lain/cih/mrecintro.htm

Emergency Undelete
http://www.c2000.com/software/download.htm

Unerase
http://www.filesearching.com/cgi-bin/s?q=unerase.exe&t=f&d=&l=en&x=11&y=17

Back2Life
http://www.simtel.net/pub/pd/57588.html

Hard Drive Mechanic
http://www.highergroundsoftware.com/6.html
It's true. Even if you just re-formatted your entire hard drive, you can still get all of your data back because, unlike what most people believe, formatting does NOT erase your files!
With Hard Drive Mechanic's Unformat Feature, you can restore all of your valuable data in about 10 minutes!
demo version:
http://www.highergroundsoftware.com/downloads2.htm


Or

http://www.ontrack.com/datarecovery/
Ontrack offers a full range of data recovery solutions to address your data loss needs. Unlike other data recovery companies, Ontrack provides exclusive and patented solutions that do not require you to send in your media for recovery. In situations where the hardware is functioning normally, our patented Remote Data Recovery service and EasyRecovery software solutions can solve your data loss needs safely and effectively in a matter of hours. If another company claims that there is no alternative to shipping your drive, it's because they don't offer an alternative. For situations in which the hardware is physically failing, our In-Lab services will utilize our Class 100 clean-rooms to retrieve your mission critical data.
0
 
LVL 44

Expert Comment

by:CrazyOne
ID: 7068209
Oops sorry I forgot SysExpert already posted this list.
0
 

Author Comment

by:qqqqqqqqq
ID: 7072992
that seems to be data recovery. I need boot record recovery. You really can't expect me to format my harddrive and then hope to recover the data.
0
 
LVL 44

Expert Comment

by:CrazyOne
ID: 7073318
The data recovery software will help you get the files on the disk before you format. I have yet to see any boot recovery tools that work after the boot record has gotten messed up for what ever reason. Hence the reason for using the data recovery tools to recover what you want just so you don't lose these files.
0
 
LVL 63

Expert Comment

by:SysExpert
ID: 7074479
SOme of the data recovery toos first try to fix the partition table before recovering data. It depends on the sophistication.

R-Tools               http://www.r-tt.com/
has been recomended recently. See if they do partition table recovery.

I hope this helps !
0
 
LVL 2

Expert Comment

by:axlrose
ID: 7075929
Boot from win2k cd.
Install a fresh copy of win2k someware on your HDD, prefferably onto a new partition. This should fix your MBR. After that add some line to boot.ini to point to the old win98 partition and to the old win2k partition, At that point u shoud be able to boot in any of your old OS's and reinstall System Commander. If everything goes right u shoud delete your new installed win2k to save space.

regards
0
 

Author Comment

by:qqqqqqqqq
ID: 7081186
i'm working on it. i'll award the points soon.
0

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This video demonstrates how to create an example email signature rule for a department in a company using CodeTwo Exchange Rules. The signature will be inserted beneath users' latest emails in conversations and will be displayed in users' Sent Items…

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