Andystud
asked on
Can't install an OS. Faulty hardware, but what?
I bought an ASUS A7V333 Mobo a few weeks ago and have had nothing but problems with it.
Currently i am trying to install windows xp. When it gets to the stage where you press enter to continue or f3 to exit it blue screens with a warning message. This initially said page fault in non paged area and advised to turn caching off. I turned caching off and it got further, this time copying the files for setup, which took ages as caching was off. At the end of this it blue screened again. I have only the basic components installed, i.e. the RAM, Graphics Card, floppy, hard drive and cd=rom drive. I bought some new Kingston RAM but still i get the blue screen. What else can it be?
I tried to install windows 98, but with caching enabled it hangs near the start of installation. I turn cache off and it goes all the way through the process, after about 2 hours. I then enable caching and it works OK. So i upgraded to XP from here and it all went OK. I started to install all the drivers and installed the sound drivers. I restarted and when it booted up i could no longer check the system properties in control panel. It just froze and won't let me shutdown.
My PC is:
ASUS A7V 333 mobo
2x256 DDR RAM modules
ABIT Siluro t400 GF2 AGP graphics card
IBM 60gb hard drive
It can't be the hard drive as i tested it in another PC and XP installed. I have also tried to install with both my DVD drive and my CD-RW drive so don't think its that. Also i have tried to install with all possible combinations of the RAM.
The only other options are:
1. Fried CPU
2. Faulty MOBO
How do i diagnose what is wrong?
Currently i am trying to install windows xp. When it gets to the stage where you press enter to continue or f3 to exit it blue screens with a warning message. This initially said page fault in non paged area and advised to turn caching off. I turned caching off and it got further, this time copying the files for setup, which took ages as caching was off. At the end of this it blue screened again. I have only the basic components installed, i.e. the RAM, Graphics Card, floppy, hard drive and cd=rom drive. I bought some new Kingston RAM but still i get the blue screen. What else can it be?
I tried to install windows 98, but with caching enabled it hangs near the start of installation. I turn cache off and it goes all the way through the process, after about 2 hours. I then enable caching and it works OK. So i upgraded to XP from here and it all went OK. I started to install all the drivers and installed the sound drivers. I restarted and when it booted up i could no longer check the system properties in control panel. It just froze and won't let me shutdown.
My PC is:
ASUS A7V 333 mobo
2x256 DDR RAM modules
ABIT Siluro t400 GF2 AGP graphics card
IBM 60gb hard drive
It can't be the hard drive as i tested it in another PC and XP installed. I have also tried to install with both my DVD drive and my CD-RW drive so don't think its that. Also i have tried to install with all possible combinations of the RAM.
The only other options are:
1. Fried CPU
2. Faulty MOBO
How do i diagnose what is wrong?
ASKER
Doubt its the RAM as i have tried both my modules and also a mate of mines.
Power supply is 300w and marked as AMD approved.
CPU is athlon XP 1800
What are the symptoms of a bad CPU?
I did get windows 98 installed, although it came up with an error when detecting hardware and i had to turn off and restart. Then i put XP on and installed drivers and it crashed, then i tried formatting hard drive and reinstalling 98 but that won't work anymore. Also have to turn cache off in the BIOS, otherwise it crashes earlier during install.
Power supply is 300w and marked as AMD approved.
CPU is athlon XP 1800
What are the symptoms of a bad CPU?
I did get windows 98 installed, although it came up with an error when detecting hardware and i had to turn off and restart. Then i put XP on and installed drivers and it crashed, then i tried formatting hard drive and reinstalling 98 but that won't work anymore. Also have to turn cache off in the BIOS, otherwise it crashes earlier during install.
I think you've described the symptoms of a bad CPU nicely. Unfortunately, those same symptoms can be caused by any number of things:
1) Bad CPU
2) Bad motherboard
3) Bad RAM
4) Bad video or other card
5) Bad power supply
Since you're ruled out the RAM and the power supply, that leaves the CPU, MB, and video or other I/O cards. As always the best way to proceed is to keep eliminating things as the source of the problem until you have only the culprit left.
As I mentioned, see if you can try your CPU in another system or another system's CPU in your MB. That would narrow things down.
1) Bad CPU
2) Bad motherboard
3) Bad RAM
4) Bad video or other card
5) Bad power supply
Since you're ruled out the RAM and the power supply, that leaves the CPU, MB, and video or other I/O cards. As always the best way to proceed is to keep eliminating things as the source of the problem until you have only the culprit left.
As I mentioned, see if you can try your CPU in another system or another system's CPU in your MB. That would narrow things down.
Well here is what MS has to say about it.
"Stop 0x00000050 or PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_ARE
This Stop message, also known as Stop 0x50, occurs when requested data is not found in memory. The system generates a fault, which normally indicates that the system looks for data in the paging file. In this circumstance, however, the missing data is identified as being located within an area of memory that cannot be read to disk. The system faults, but cannot find, the data and is unable to recover. Faulty hardware, a buggy system service, antivirus software, and a corrupted NTFS volume can all generate this type of error.
Interpreting the Message
The four parameters listed in the message are defined in order of appearance as follows:
Virtual address which caused the fault
Type of access (0 = read operation, 1 = write operation)
If not zero, the instruction address which referenced the address in parameter 1
Opaque information about the stop, interpreted by the kernel
Resolving the Problem
Faulty hardware. Stop 0x50 usually occurs after the installation of faulty hardware or in the event of failure of installed hardware (usually related to defective RAM, be it main memory, L2 RAM cache, or video RAM). If hardware has been added to the system recently, remove it to see if the error recurs. If existing hardware has failed, remove or replace the faulty component. You should run hardware diagnostics supplied by the system manufacturer. For details on these procedures, see the owner's manual for your computer.
Buggy system service. Often, the installation of a buggy system service is a culprit. Disable the service and confirm that this resolves the error. If so, contact the manufacturer of the system service about a possible update. If the error occurs during system startup, restart your computer, and press F8 at the character-mode menu that displays the operating system choices. At the resulting Windows 2000 Advanced Options menu, choose the Last Known Good Configuration option. This option is most effective when only one driver or service is added at a time.
Antivirus software. Antivirus software can also trigger this error. Disable the program and confirm that this resolves the error. If it does, contact the manufacturer of the program about a possible update.
Corrupted NTFS volume. A corrupted NTFS volume can also generate this error. Run Chkdsk /f /r to detect and repair disk errors. You must restart the system before the disk scan begins on a system partition. If the hard disk is SCSI, check for problems between the SCSI controller and the disk."
Personally I would recommend installing XP after stripping down this system with only a mouse, a keyboard, 1 hard drive, 1 CD Drive, the floppy drive and the video card remaining. If the problem still occurs swap the video card and/or remove one or more RAM modules and see what happens. Even though you feel the RAM is not the issue it still could be. Sometimes the fault in the RAM will only show up under certain situations.
The Crazy One
"Stop 0x00000050 or PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_ARE
This Stop message, also known as Stop 0x50, occurs when requested data is not found in memory. The system generates a fault, which normally indicates that the system looks for data in the paging file. In this circumstance, however, the missing data is identified as being located within an area of memory that cannot be read to disk. The system faults, but cannot find, the data and is unable to recover. Faulty hardware, a buggy system service, antivirus software, and a corrupted NTFS volume can all generate this type of error.
Interpreting the Message
The four parameters listed in the message are defined in order of appearance as follows:
Virtual address which caused the fault
Type of access (0 = read operation, 1 = write operation)
If not zero, the instruction address which referenced the address in parameter 1
Opaque information about the stop, interpreted by the kernel
Resolving the Problem
Faulty hardware. Stop 0x50 usually occurs after the installation of faulty hardware or in the event of failure of installed hardware (usually related to defective RAM, be it main memory, L2 RAM cache, or video RAM). If hardware has been added to the system recently, remove it to see if the error recurs. If existing hardware has failed, remove or replace the faulty component. You should run hardware diagnostics supplied by the system manufacturer. For details on these procedures, see the owner's manual for your computer.
Buggy system service. Often, the installation of a buggy system service is a culprit. Disable the service and confirm that this resolves the error. If so, contact the manufacturer of the system service about a possible update. If the error occurs during system startup, restart your computer, and press F8 at the character-mode menu that displays the operating system choices. At the resulting Windows 2000 Advanced Options menu, choose the Last Known Good Configuration option. This option is most effective when only one driver or service is added at a time.
Antivirus software. Antivirus software can also trigger this error. Disable the program and confirm that this resolves the error. If it does, contact the manufacturer of the program about a possible update.
Corrupted NTFS volume. A corrupted NTFS volume can also generate this error. Run Chkdsk /f /r to detect and repair disk errors. You must restart the system before the disk scan begins on a system partition. If the hard disk is SCSI, check for problems between the SCSI controller and the disk."
Personally I would recommend installing XP after stripping down this system with only a mouse, a keyboard, 1 hard drive, 1 CD Drive, the floppy drive and the video card remaining. If the problem still occurs swap the video card and/or remove one or more RAM modules and see what happens. Even though you feel the RAM is not the issue it still could be. Sometimes the fault in the RAM will only show up under certain situations.
The Crazy One
ASKER
I have been trying the installation with only the basic components needed(see original description). Also i borrowed a friends graphics card and tried that as well as mine, regardless the blue screen kept appearing on install.
1) Bad CPU
2) Bad motherboard
3) Bad RAM
4) Bad video or other card
5) Bad power supply
2) Bad motherboard
3) Bad RAM
4) Bad video or other card
5) Bad power supply
ASKER
From: jhance Date: 06/10/2002 03:37AM PST
1) Bad CPU
2) Bad motherboard
3) Bad RAM
4) Bad video or other card
5) Bad power supply
doubt its the RAM as my friends works in his PC as does his video card i borrowed. Also i have 2 other modules of RAM, one kingston and one micron. I have tried them all on their own and together.
bad power supply, not sure. It says its AMD capable. How would i know if this was the cause.
I'm a bit dubious over the enabling of the CPU caching causing erros, does this point to a faulty CPU? Although i have also disabled it and produced errors, but the one time i got past the initial XP setup screens was with my friends RAM and caching disabled. I reenabled caching and got blue screens.
Is there any software to test a CPU.
If its fried, does the physical appearance change.
As a footnote, when i installed all the components, the fan was on the wrong way round. I turned on my PC, but the mobo must have detected a problem and kept shutting down. It was only on for about 5 seconds, but could this be the problem?
1) Bad CPU
2) Bad motherboard
3) Bad RAM
4) Bad video or other card
5) Bad power supply
doubt its the RAM as my friends works in his PC as does his video card i borrowed. Also i have 2 other modules of RAM, one kingston and one micron. I have tried them all on their own and together.
bad power supply, not sure. It says its AMD capable. How would i know if this was the cause.
I'm a bit dubious over the enabling of the CPU caching causing erros, does this point to a faulty CPU? Although i have also disabled it and produced errors, but the one time i got past the initial XP setup screens was with my friends RAM and caching disabled. I reenabled caching and got blue screens.
Is there any software to test a CPU.
If its fried, does the physical appearance change.
As a footnote, when i installed all the components, the fan was on the wrong way round. I turned on my PC, but the mobo must have detected a problem and kept shutting down. It was only on for about 5 seconds, but could this be the problem?
You are the one asking for help. It doesn't really matter what you THINK is not wrong since if you knew what the problem was you would not be asking here.
My suggestion is that the problem is one of:
1) Bad CPU
2) Bad motherboard
3) Bad RAM
4) Bad video or other card
5) Bad power supply
Until you eliminate these ALL as sources of the problem, you are going to be chasing your tail.
My suggestion is that the problem is one of:
1) Bad CPU
2) Bad motherboard
3) Bad RAM
4) Bad video or other card
5) Bad power supply
Until you eliminate these ALL as sources of the problem, you are going to be chasing your tail.
ASKER
jhance, i realise that one of these is the problem as there isn't anything else that could be the problem, but thanks for stating the obvious. Hold on while i award you the points for repeating what i had already written...
What i want to know is how do i find out what the problem is and if anyone else has had similar problems, hence the last line of the original question-
How do i diagnose what is wrong?
What i want to know is how do i find out what the problem is and if anyone else has had similar problems, hence the last line of the original question-
How do i diagnose what is wrong?
Good bye...
Although you have covered the RAM aspect I would try running it with the MICRON Memory chip only and see how it does again.
You can test your memory with this program:
http://www.simmtester.com/PAGE/products/doc/docmemsignin.asp
This is a bootable so no OS is needed.
To be honest this is showing the aspects of memory.
Please note:
Not all memory can be used with ASUS motherboards they can be finicky.
Micron is a solid memory maker and generally works in all known brand systems so I would try it without that Kingston.
Make sure the Micron is in your 0/1 bank.
Since you have your friends computer to test with... try it with his/her RAM (If its a brand name memory) and not yours.
Thats a thought.
You can test your memory with this program:
http://www.simmtester.com/PAGE/products/doc/docmemsignin.asp
This is a bootable so no OS is needed.
To be honest this is showing the aspects of memory.
Please note:
Not all memory can be used with ASUS motherboards they can be finicky.
Micron is a solid memory maker and generally works in all known brand systems so I would try it without that Kingston.
Make sure the Micron is in your 0/1 bank.
Since you have your friends computer to test with... try it with his/her RAM (If its a brand name memory) and not yours.
Thats a thought.
Sounds like your CPU could be bad or the cache on the motherboard could be bad. You shouldn't be turning the CPU cache off like that, in fact, you really can't. As you noticed the computer will run extremely slow.
In terms of diagnosing the program...if you have a digital voltmeter you can see if you get a steady +/-5 / +/- 12 out of the power supply. If not, your power supply is probably bad.
As jhance says, you'll just have to [sic] play "switch and plug". I had a computer at work that refused to power on at all. I suspected the power supply, but as soon as I plugged another CPU in, the system booted it! Weird stuff.
Also, have you tried just one stick of memory at one time? Not all memories will mix nicely.
In terms of diagnosing the program...if you have a digital voltmeter you can see if you get a steady +/-5 / +/- 12 out of the power supply. If not, your power supply is probably bad.
As jhance says, you'll just have to [sic] play "switch and plug". I had a computer at work that refused to power on at all. I suspected the power supply, but as soon as I plugged another CPU in, the system booted it! Weird stuff.
Also, have you tried just one stick of memory at one time? Not all memories will mix nicely.
ASKER
i'll give the RAM tester a go, although i have already tried each module on their own and with the others.
The 3 modules i have tried are kingston, micron and m-tech and all produce the same error.
The 3 modules i have tried are kingston, micron and m-tech and all produce the same error.
ASKER
"In terms of diagnosing the program...if you have a digital voltmeter you can see if you get a steady
+/-5 / +/- 12 out of the power supply. If not, your power supply is probably bad"
- the mobo has abuilt in voltmeter and when i checked this evening it was just below 5 and just over 12.
+/-5 / +/- 12 out of the power supply. If not, your power supply is probably bad"
- the mobo has abuilt in voltmeter and when i checked this evening it was just below 5 and just over 12.
ASKER
OK, so i tried the ram tester mentioned earlier, and it the ultimate twist of inrony it crashed, and its only an MS-DOS based program. If i turn caching off however it runs fine. So what does this tell me....
I would probably switch CPUs since it is less labor intensive then switching the motherboard.
In terms of a RAM tester...don't believe the results as gospel. I had 72 SIMMS go bad on me and the tester at work didn't flag them (and it took a week of switching everything out of my system, except for the CPU and power supply to finally pin down that my RAM was bad!)
In terms of a RAM tester...don't believe the results as gospel. I had 72 SIMMS go bad on me and the tester at work didn't flag them (and it took a week of switching everything out of my system, except for the CPU and power supply to finally pin down that my RAM was bad!)
Well I wouldnt do the CPU since the problems all began with the new MB.
I went back and re-read your original problem and got to thinking.
Are you using the onboard sound with this MB.
I had the ASUS P4B266 and used the onboard sound. In Windows 2000 that mofo would lock up tight as a drum.
It did this as soon as I loaded the drivers from the CD (ASUS provided) for the audio.
Try disabling the audio and check its performance.
You may have to go with a seperate audio card.
My P4S533 runs great with the audio in XP but that P4B266 (onboard audio) is messed up with the Win 2000 platform. If they utilitied the same chipset and drivers (in audio) in the A7V333 then that could be your problem.
Disable the audio and try that.
I went back and re-read your original problem and got to thinking.
Are you using the onboard sound with this MB.
I had the ASUS P4B266 and used the onboard sound. In Windows 2000 that mofo would lock up tight as a drum.
It did this as soon as I loaded the drivers from the CD (ASUS provided) for the audio.
Try disabling the audio and check its performance.
You may have to go with a seperate audio card.
My P4S533 runs great with the audio in XP but that P4B266 (onboard audio) is messed up with the Win 2000 platform. If they utilitied the same chipset and drivers (in audio) in the A7V333 then that could be your problem.
Disable the audio and try that.
Whenever I'm encountering such error the first thing I do is reset the BIOS to factory defaults, I know it slows down the system but after you install the OS succesfully you can tweak the bios again.
Further remove any device / card that isn't neccessary.
Try different pci slot configurations.
in 95% of the cases this solved the problems.
Further remove any device / card that isn't neccessary.
Try different pci slot configurations.
in 95% of the cases this solved the problems.
ASKER
I have already updated the bios to the latest version and left the default configuration. I also don't have any cards in except for the AGP graphics card.
Guess i'm in the 5%.
I also disabled the audio, but this had no effect.
I ordered another CPU last night so i will be able to test if this is the problem, otherwise it must be the motherboard.
Guess i'm in the 5%.
I also disabled the audio, but this had no effect.
I ordered another CPU last night so i will be able to test if this is the problem, otherwise it must be the motherboard.
ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION
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I have already updated the bios to the latest version and left the default configuration
When updating the bios asus suggests that you reset the bios to it's default values.
Reset it and try disabling everything in the bios you don't really need, like caching etc.
When updating the bios asus suggests that you reset the bios to it's default values.
Reset it and try disabling everything in the bios you don't really need, like caching etc.
Is the computer working in safe mode?
I think you narrowed it down to the cpu or the motherboard. Maybe you can take the motherboard and cpu to your suplier and ask them to test it.
I think you narrowed it down to the cpu or the motherboard. Maybe you can take the motherboard and cpu to your suplier and ask them to test it.
ASKER
although no-one mentioned the real problem, i feel this is the closest answer. Cheers to everyone who helped, it was almost random who i picked as the final answer.
The Solution:
Last night i thought i would give it one more go. I unscrewed the MOBO a bit and lifted the board up a bit before putting it back. Tried to install XP and it worked, so i think the board must have been grounded.
Cheers for the help everyone, even you jhance.
The Solution:
Last night i thought i would give it one more go. I unscrewed the MOBO a bit and lifted the board up a bit before putting it back. Tried to install XP and it worked, so i think the board must have been grounded.
Cheers for the help everyone, even you jhance.
My first guess would be bad RAM but having swapped it out for another set, that is probably not it.
What about your CPU, what kind is it? The ASUS A7V 333 is a SOCKET A MB and so it must be some type of AMD CPU (I hope!!) is your POWER SUPPLY AMD spec'd?? The AMD CPUs are very picky about power. Unless the power supply is MARKED as AMD APPROVED then you may have problems.
If all these things look OK, I'd agree that it's either a bad CPU or a bad MB. It's often very difficult to figure out which of these two is bad without swapping for a known good one. If you have access to an AMD SOCKET A chip from another system it may be worthwhile to try it in this MB and see if things are OK.