native converters for Swing java applications
We have a problem; the JRE is too big for our customers.
(yeah, I know, the smallest version is only 5.7mb - but they still feel that this is a "huge barrier" for them).
So, we are looking at some solutons to this problem.
1. Convert our .class files to a native .EXE application, and pack all needed libraries with it (haven't found anyone that supports Swing independently of Sun's JRE - ex; Excelsior JET).
2. Strip the JRE - which is illegal, so we can't do that :|
3. Alternative, smaller VM's; haven't found anyone that can handle Swing independently of Sun's JRE yet.
suggestions?
- bjorn
(yeah, I know, the smallest version is only 5.7mb - but they still feel that this is a "huge barrier" for them).
So, we are looking at some solutons to this problem.
1. Convert our .class files to a native .EXE application, and pack all needed libraries with it (haven't found anyone that supports Swing independently of Sun's JRE - ex; Excelsior JET).
2. Strip the JRE - which is illegal, so we can't do that :|
3. Alternative, smaller VM's; haven't found anyone that can handle Swing independently of Sun's JRE yet.
suggestions?
- bjorn
CEHJ
listening...
I seem to recall reading a whitepaper on the latest VisualCafe including a native compiler/linker that supported Swing as well. No guarantees, but check it out.
> the JRE is too big for our customers.
Then why were you developing in Java in the first place?
Only other alternative I can think of besides the ones you already mentioned are to rewrite as a native application.
Then why were you developing in Java in the first place?
Only other alternative I can think of besides the ones you already mentioned are to rewrite as a native application.
ASKER
Webcream? .. I think Google's comment is appropiate:
"Claims to convert Java GUI client-side applications to HTML/JavaScript-based front end with no recoding. [Commercial]"
Claims to .. I don't think so ..
pellep; we're developing in Java because we are a java company. But when our customers heard they needed that plugin, they started backing out ...
An alternative may also be doing it in some .NET way, but I don't want that.
- bjorn
> Claims to .. I don't think so ..
I agree they are bold claims.
I believe they have a trial version if you want to try it out.
> But when our customers heard they needed
> that plugin, they started backing out ...
First thing you should be making a client aware of :-)
> An alternative may also be doing it in some .NET way,
> but I don't want that.
ie. rewrite it.
I agree they are bold claims.
I believe they have a trial version if you want to try it out.
> But when our customers heard they needed
> that plugin, they started backing out ...
First thing you should be making a client aware of :-)
> An alternative may also be doing it in some .NET way,
> but I don't want that.
ie. rewrite it.
ASKER
sorry, my previous comment was to objects, not pellep..
I checked out Visual Café, and yes it does have a native compiler.
From the features matrix:
"Native JDK 1.3 and Java 2 x86 compiler with support for dynamically loaded classes. "
.. doesn't say anything about Swing though.
I'll try to find out more about it and post it here..
- bjorn
You could try porting it to AWT/1.1. Gotta be less work than rewriting in another language.
Or perhaps just getting it working with 1.1 so they only need to download Swing classes.
Or perhaps just getting it working with 1.1 so they only need to download Swing classes.
ASKER
It's a graphics program.
The program uses Java2D heavily for rotation, scaling, etc. of images and shapes.
so, we kind of need JDK 1.4.0 ...
Also, last I checked the JDK 1.1 download was 11 MB(!) .. maybe I found some strange version or something, but it was on Sun's site ..
- bjorn
> last I checked the JDK 1.1 download was 11 MB(!)
They don't need the JDK, only a runtime.
Plus most browsers come with 1.1 support.
They don't need the JDK, only a runtime.
Plus most browsers come with 1.1 support.
ASKER
It's a graphics program.
The program uses Java2D heavily for rotation, scaling, etc. of images and shapes.
so, we kind of need JDK 1.4.0 ...
Also, last I checked the JDK 1.1 download was 11 MB(!) .. maybe I found some strange version or something, but it was on Sun's site ..
- bjorn
ASKER
woops, sorry about that .. I did a refresh to view your message and then it posted mine over again :|
anyway, most browsers - meaning IE (which are "most browsers") don't come with any Java support at all as far as I know - after the lawsuit from Sun. (You know, the whole "Microsoft Virtual Machine" blabla)
besides, this is an application, not an applet.
So, we're kinda stuck it seems :/
- bjorn
native compiler will include almost the same amount of code as JRE does. If your app uses java.utl.Vector and javax.swing.JFrame, these classes will have to be included in some form or another with the final distribution.
ASKER
Hey hey hey :)
which native compiler are you talking about here?
I've testes Excelsior JET, which says it depends on Sun's JDK if your application uses Swing or AWT.
Others I've had a look at have the same problem.
- bjorn
gcj 3.1 can be a solution. But is not working for windows (if i'm well informed.)
I've used (in past) IBM HPJC and Symantec native compilers. Both of them used something like "precompiled" core Java libraries. For example application compiled with HPJC mut be distributed with
- util.hll (for example 1Mb) - it your app uses java.util.* classes
- awt.hll (for example 3Mb) - it your app uses java.awt.* classes
and so on
- util.hll (for example 1Mb) - it your app uses java.util.* classes
- awt.hll (for example 3Mb) - it your app uses java.awt.* classes
and so on
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ASKER
>I would like to know which VM's don't support Swing.
>Swing is 100% pure java, based on the AWT, but still pure
>java. Apparently your looking at VM's that also don't
>support the AWT?
I wrote: "independently of Sun's JRE" ... and the topic here is "native compilers".
They all support the AWT, but not Swing.
- bjorn
>Swing is 100% pure java, based on the AWT, but still pure
>java. Apparently your looking at VM's that also don't
>support the AWT?
I wrote: "independently of Sun's JRE" ... and the topic here is "native compilers".
They all support the AWT, but not Swing.
- bjorn
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I agree with heyhey, this statement is immpossible:
>They all support the AWT, but not Swing.
Swing is pure java, that's really all there is to it. I can see if a native compiler didn't support the AWT it wouldn't also support Swing. But by it's very definition it must support Swing if it supports all facets of the Java language. That's why 100% pure Java programs are so beneficial.
>They all support the AWT, but not Swing.
Swing is pure java, that's really all there is to it. I can see if a native compiler didn't support the AWT it wouldn't also support Swing. But by it's very definition it must support Swing if it supports all facets of the Java language. That's why 100% pure Java programs are so beneficial.
No comment has been added lately, so it's time to clean up this TA.
I will leave a recommendation in the Cleanup topic area that this
question is:
- split points among objects, heyhey_ and wgilster.
Please leave any comments here within the
next seven days.
PLEASE DO NOT ACCEPT THIS COMMENT AS AN ANSWER !
girionis
Cleanup Volunteer
I will leave a recommendation in the Cleanup topic area that this
question is:
- split points among objects, heyhey_ and wgilster.
Please leave any comments here within the
next seven days.
PLEASE DO NOT ACCEPT THIS COMMENT AS AN ANSWER !
girionis
Cleanup Volunteer