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Home Network (3 Computers, 2 IP addresses + Proxy Stuff)

Posted on 2002-06-25
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My ISP only gives me 2 IP addresses to access the internet, however, that shouldn't mean that a third computer cannot access the LAN should it?

I have an ADSL connection, have a proxy server setup on one machine, but only two computers can ever see each other on the network, the two with "Internet IP's". I've assigned the third computer, the one without net access, and ip of "10.0.0.1", but it can't access the network. Now, if I give that computer an internet IP, it can see the network...

Obviously, if the computers cannot see each other, one cannot act as a proxy to the next. I've tried pinging them from each other, and the two internet enabled computers can see each other, but the third can't see either of those two.

Here is my setup:

Comp#1 = P2000 w/ WinXP Pro & has Internet IP.
Comp #2 = P500 w/ WinXP Pro & has Internet IP, and will act as the Proxy Server.
Comp #3 = P120 w/ Win98 & has no internet acces & cannot see the network.

Any help? I've tried everything, but I'm no network guru by any stretch of the imagination.

What should the third computer have, and what should its ip settings be, if it needs to see the network?

If someone can help me, and eventually get the Proxy to work, I can dump a whole wack of points on you :).

But thanks most of all, for looking at my question.
Thanks.

Oh - one other thing, my "Comp#1", the one with a NET IP, and the one that isn't acting as proxy server, can't assign itself an IP address. I always have to add it manually, which can be a huge pain (have a dynamic IP). Anyone know why this would be? Even if I releaes the IPs on the other computers, it still assigns itself a "10.0.0.X" address. It says "assigned by DCHP", if that means anything...
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Question by:Microslave
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stevenlewis earned 500 total points
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You don't say how the machines are connected together, hub?
You really only need one ip assigned by your isp, and then use ICS on that machine to share the connection
then the machine connected to the internet needs two NIC's one connected to the modem (lets call this the external NIC) and the other connected to the hub (internal NIC)
internal NIC should have the following ip configuration
ip 192.168.0.1
mask 255.255.255.0
gateway blank
disable dns and wins
the cliewnts
ip 192.168.0.(2-254)
mask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.0.1
enable dns and use the ip of your isp dns server or 192.168.0.1
disable wins

here's a couple of sites for you
www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/sharing.htm
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/ics
the second is superb

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by:Microslave
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Sorry, my bad.

Yes, they're all plugged into the hub. Also, I have an external modem for my DSL, which comes straight from the wall, and into this modem (I think its just a NIC, but someone called it a modem), and then into the "Uplink" portion of my HUB.

There is no way to have a computer connected to the internet & a LAN with a computer that doesn't have the net?

Or does my added info (sorry, forgot to post that initially) change things?

Also, do you have an idea why I can't automatically renew my IP address on my one machine, even when the other two have released their IP?
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by:stevenlewis
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There is no way to have a computer connected to the internet & a LAN with a computer that doesn't have the net?
Yes there is, check out the links I posted
If you wish to have both machines still connect to the internet, you will need to add another NIC to each machine, and assign the NIC(s) internal ip addresses.
The easiest way to go, is have two NIC's on one machine, one connected to the modem, and the other connected to the hub, then connect the other machines to the hub, use the ip scheme I outlined above, and use ICS and one ip address from your isp (on the one with the two NIC's)

as for the release of the ip info
Even if I releaes the IPs on the other computers, it still assigns itself a "10.0.0.X" address. It says "assigned by DCHP", if that means anything
the 10.0.0.x is a valid internal ip address. so there must be a dhcp server assigning it this ip address
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by:Microslave
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Ok, looks like I gotta buy another NIC. I should be able to set it up like:

#1 has 2 NIC's, one for the internet, the other for the LAN.
#2 has 1 NIC, one for the LAN, which it will use to connect to #1 for ICS.

#3 has 1 NIC, one for the internet. It won't be able to access the LAN.


Whats a DCHP server? Is that something local? Because both my other computers can renew & release IP addresses, this is the only one where I have to set it manually, and change it each time my IP changes. Can I change it so that this one will use the same DCHP server as the other two? Or use the same method of renewing & releasing as the other ones?

Thanks again.
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by:stevenlewis
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3 has 1 NIC, one for the internet. It won't be able to access the LAN.
use the NIC to connect to the LAN and thru the LAN to the internet
ICS is internet connection sharing
then all machines should have both the LAN (local area network)access and internet access

DHCP server = dynamic host configuration protocol
your isp dynimically assigns ip addresses to your machine (along with other parameters like dns server info, gateway, etc.)

I use a router/gateway now, but before I got it, I used ICS
and my setup was one machine had two NIC's one connected to my dsl modem, and the other to the hub, and then all my other mahcines were connected to the hub
I used the ip scheme I suggested above, and all machines could access each other thru the LAN, and all could access the internet thru ICS

Please visit the links I posted they will give you step by step proceedures on how to set up your network so you will have both LAN access and internet access at the same time from all machines

an alternative is to get a router/gateway (I use a D-Link) and connect the modem to the WAN port and the machines to the LAN ports and then again you will have LAN access and internet acces on all machnes at the same time
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by:stevenlewis
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Oh yeah, the d-link was about $80 US for a four port, and has a firewall built in, and other features like port forwarding, access restriction, and DMZ
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by:rid
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If you do not need internet access on all 3 computers, I suppose you could install the NETBEUI protocol on all 3 and use that protocol for file sharing. It doesn't take TCP/IP to see the computers on the LAN, and the protocols can coexist.

regards
/RID
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by:Microslave
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If I use the:
<ul>3 has 1 NIC, one for the internet. It won't be able to access the LAN.
use the NIC to connect to the LAN and thru the LAN to the internet
ICS is internet connection sharing
then all machines should have both the LAN (local area network)access and internet access</ul>

Setup, does that mean every machine will connect through one ICS machine? 'cause I'd like to be able to use both IP's, rather than having the connection split into thirds with one IP doing nothing.

I looked into a router, but from what I've heard, it isn't easy to use with games, and you can't only have 2 computer "routed" and the third with "free access", without being routed. Gotta love the layman terms :).

Will check out some NIC's tommorow - any idea on how much one will set me back?
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by:stevenlewis
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Will check out some NIC's tommorow - any idea on how much one will set me back
about $20 - $30 US
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by:heheman3000
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Well if you have two IP's you can only have two direct connections to the internet, and connecting to a game host such as battle.net you need two different IP's to join the same game. Which means for any computers more than two you need to configure ICS on the host. I wrote a whole page of stuff on another question and I don't want to write it again and although it was for win2k the basic principles are the same , look for a question named "ICS problem" in this category

Hope this helps.
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by:Microslave
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Ok got it working, except my 3rd computer (not involved in proxy), still can't get an IP address.

How do I change the DCHP settings/server?
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by:stevenlewis
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go to tcp properties, and specify an ip, then manually enter the ip info
ip 192.168.0.(2-254) Make sure this is unique to your network
and mask 255.255.255.0
are you using the ip scheme I suggested? if so
then the gateway will be 192.168.0.1 and use that as the dns server also
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by:heheman3000
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If you have ICS(for workstation) or DHCP/ICS/NAT(for server) set up on the server for the 3rd computer, then you can set it to 'obtain Ip address automatically' and auto everything else too except select 'Use DHCP for WINS Resolution'. Set your computer to access the internet through a network as well.
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by:Microslave
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Well I have the two computers setup in an ICS environment, but I want this one to be able to directly connect with its own IP (we have two); not through the proxy.

Get what I'm saying?

Comp1(Client) ->connects to-> comp2(server) ->connects to internet->

Comp3 ->connects to internet->
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by:heheman3000
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Ok then this is the setup:

Cable Modem/High speed connection
                       |
                 Switch/hub
          /                     \
Server (1st comp)                 3rd comp
               |
-Crossover Cable or switch/hub
              |
2nd comp

Conigure the 3rd comp in network properties to use one of the IP addresses provided, and the server to use the other.
The 2nd comp is set up with ICS and will be the same IP as the server on the internet.
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by:heheman3000
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Sorry that diagram was a little screwed up but you get what I mean right?

You have 2 IP's so you set the server to use one and the 3rd comp to use the other.

The server will require 2 NIC's.
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by:heheman3000
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In this case, also you shouldn't use a proxy server when ICS can be used, as you can't play games over the network :( .. hehe
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by:Microslave
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How do I configure the 3rd computer properly though? I set it to automatic discovery of IP addres, and it gets me a 10.0.X.X address. I installed my OS on this computer, when my other computers each had an IP, and only after did I release one.

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by:heheman3000
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what? no, you should know the two IP's you've been assigned. Get the server to use one and the 3rd computer to use the other, don't use "obtain Ip address automatically"
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by:Microslave
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Problem is, I have a dynamic IP, and I don't want to have to manually type it my IP address every time it changes (which is getting to be quite frequent now).

Both my other computers could use obtain one automatically.
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by:heheman3000
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You're assigned 2 IP addresses and they're dynamic? Hmm sounds dodgy. Anyway, what is the OS of the 3rd comp and what are the OS's of the other two?
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by:Microslave
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Yep, 2 IP's, both dynamic.

3rd Computer = WinXP Pro
2nd Computer (Host) = WinME
1st Computer (Client) = Win98
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by:heheman3000
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You should set the networking settings correctly in Windows XP. I can't do much here, because if your ISP issues IP's automatically you will have to contact them for the correct settings, and they should have the ability to properly assign IP addresses.

BTW, is the connection coming from the outside (your cable or DSL modem) going into a hub/switch or a router? If it is a router that may be the reason it's not working. Please update.
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by:Microslave
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No router/switch, just a basic hub.

Thing is, I've never had to set the "correct" settings for any of the other computers, and we've reformatted them multiple times.

Is there away to see what the "correct settings" are, by looking at the other two computers?
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by:heheman3000
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I have a feeling I don't know as much about this topic as you, sorry. I also don't have a windows XP machine :( I don't think I can help much more.

As a last result, get all the windows update patches for Windows XP. The internet connection should work on a variety of settings.
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