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Win98 - XP Network

Posted on 2002-07-08
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Last Modified: 2010-04-11
We have at our business, seven computers all running Win 98SE.They are all connected via 10T coaxial cable using BNC connections to the NICs. We also have a Canon copier center which is hooked into the network via a hub. All the computers share a DSL modem through a Linksys router which is connected to the network via the hub.

All the computers work fine and each can see and access all of the other computers on the network as well as any shared printers.

Today we hooked a new Toshiba laptop running WIN-XP home OS into the hub. It immediately recognized all of the computers on the network, with the exception of one. Why can all of the other computers see the Toshiba and inturn it can see all but one. All of the Win98Se computers are using the same network settings.

Is this a limitation of WINXP?
Is there a way to set up the network so that the Toshiba can see all of the computers?

Any advice or suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks,

kawed
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Question by:kawed
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mikecr earned 200 total points
ID: 7139218
Windows 95/98 has always had a problem making themselves available in the browse list. This normally happens when one is the master browser and a new computer that you want to put on the network wants to be the master browser. Here are a few tricks in getting it to show up.

First, install Microsoft File and Printer Sharing on this machine if it is not already installed and share out a folder on it. It doesn't have to have anything in it, just share out an empty folder.

Next, you can create an LMHOSTS file on the client that is having the problem seeing the other machine and this can help make it show up in the browse list.

And finally, you can install the Netbui protocol on each machine and this will cause it to show up also. By default, Netbui is not an option to install on an XP machine and you have to install it from the CD. Here are instructions on how to install it.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q301041
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by:kawed
ID: 7139324
Thanks mikecr for your prompt response to my inquiry. A couple of questions I have about your comments are as follows:

1/. The Win98 computers have never had a problem showing themselves to the network. Also, I not sure what you mean by "master browser".

2/. How do you create an LMHOSTS file on the new computer to the network?

3/. WINXP came pre-installed on the Toshiba laptop so I presume the Netbui protocol would be in one of the cab files?
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by:ITsheresomewhere
ID: 7139877
I will let mikecr finish and only interject some information about the Browse Master.

Browse Master is kind of a master list holder, list maker of who (computer name) is on the network.  It goes back to a much simpler and smaller network time, basically server less networks.

If you right click network neighborhood > properties and look at the properties for file and print sharing you will see two values, one being Browse Master, the other LM announce.  The defaults are automatic for Browse and no for LM.  

Browse Master at automatic causes all machines to contend for the election of master list holder, the Browse Master.  There is a hierarchy of who gets to be the master depending on the type of OS with NT, now Windows 2000 Servers, being at the top of the list.  All machines currently on and connected to the network send out an election, comparing OS's, recomparing to others, and comparing again when a new machine comes on, till one gets to be the Browse Master and hold the list.  Confusing, right.

In cases of tie within an OS, the machine that has been turned on the longest wins.  And other machines are selected as backups in case the Browse master goes down or can't fulfill the duties of his office.  Also there is a certain amount of time, I think it is about 40-60 minutes run time, where the election is reheld just to make sure all is fair.  Also there is chatter asking the Browse Master who is actually on the list.

This was ok when you had a few machines on a lan but now actually causes a rather unneeded amount of chatter and can in fact slowdown a network overall.  Or make Network Neighborhood missing in action.  

In larger homogenous serverless lans it is a good practice to choose setting the automatic to Yes for one primary machine, automatic for a couple others, and no for the rest.  Unless, like yours, everthing is working ok, then leave it alone, send that XP packing :)

The fact that yours all have been showing is actually a stroke of luck and probably has more to do with one machine either being left on all the time or starting first each day.  That and the fact there is no infighting over whose OS is king of the mountain.

Just an interesting tid bit of useless information that may one day win you a trivia contest.  There actually is a lenghty MS KB on this which gives the full details of the election processs.

ITsy
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by:mikecr
ID: 7140395
You will find an LMHOSTS.sam file located on each computer on your network. On XP you will find it located under c:\winnt\system32\drivers\etc. If you edit this file using notepad, it has instructions and an example of how to create the file. Once you have created it, resave the file as LMHOSTS without the sam extension. As for Netbuie, it is found on the Windows XP cd. If you don't have one, try seeing if you have a friend that has one. If not let me know and I can round it up for you and email it to you.
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by:SysExpert
ID: 7140950
In addition to all the great advice given, I have seen this happen because the NIC drivers are not updated. Get the newest NIC drivers you can find and see if this resolves the issue. Remember that it can take 15 minutes or more for a machine to show up in the network.

I hope this helps !
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by:rid
ID: 7141674
Sorry, kawed, for taking space in your thread without helping; I just thought I should compliment ITsheresomewhere for the nice tutorial on Browse Masters. Good job!
/RID
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by:kawed
ID: 7142099
Hello Everyone:
I sure do appreciate the detailed and descriptive explanations each of you have given to help solve my problem.

1/. The Toshiba running WINXP has its OS preloaded on the hard drive. NEW PROBLEM. I went to find the Netbui files, I looked in the C:\windows\otions\cabs\ folder(nrmally where the OEM CD files are stored. To my surprise it shows being empty (I don't think it actually is). I also noticed while browsing windows explorer, that the c:\windows\start menu\programs\startup\ folder also displays as being empty, yet, I know I have some program short cuts in this folder. WHAT GIVES? I adjusted the folder view property settings to show all files including system and hidden files/folders. This didn't help. Are there some other settings in WINXP that are preventing these files being displayed?

Any advice to help with this new problem would be appreciated.

I am also increasing the points reward on this question as it is turning out to be somewhat more of a difficult problem thanks to WINXP.
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by:ITsheresomewhere
ID: 7142163
Not sure what to tell you as to why your not finding things.  Maybe you need a CD that is with all the boxes etc?

MS says it is on the CD at XP CD: ValueAdd\Msft\Net\Netbeui
Two files needed nbf.sys and netnbf.inf

Copy nbf.sys into the %SYSTEMROOT%\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\directory.

Copy netnbf.inf into the %SYSTEMROOT%\INF\ directory.

Open network connection properties and click the "Install..." button to add the NetBEUI protocol.

Now just where your hiding them may take a call to Toshiba or have mikecr send them to ya.

ITsy

ps MS really doesn't want netbeui on XP so they hide it very well.
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Author Comment

by:kawed
ID: 7142431
Hello mikecr:

I wanted asked if you could email to me the two files I need to install Netbui on the XP computer. They are the nbf.sys and netnbf.inf files. It would be greatly appreciated.

Please email to:  astec@telusplanet.net

Thanks

kawed
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by:kawed
ID: 7142433
Hello mikecr:

I wanted asked if you could email to me the two files I need to install Netbui on the XP computer. They are the nbf.sys and netnbf.inf files. It would be greatly appreciated.

Please email to:  astec@telusplanet.net

Thanks

kawed
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by:kawed
ID: 7142436
Hello mikecr:

I wanted asked if you could email to me the two files I need to install Netbui on the XP computer. They are the nbf.sys and netnbf.inf files. It would be greatly appreciated.

Please email to:  astec@telusplanet.net

Thanks

kawed
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by:mikecr
ID: 7143079
Okay, the packages is in the mail.
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by:kawed
ID: 7147890
I would like to thank everyone for taking time to respond to my question(s). I installed the Netbui protocol on the Toshiba. Initially, that didn't completely solve the network trouble until I set the TCP/IP WINS properties for NetBios over TCP/IP connection (This is not the Default setting for WIN-XP.)Now the Toshiba XP machine can see and share with all the other computers and vice versa.
The browse master and LM hosts suggestions were appreciated but not required (At least,not for this specific situation.

One problem I have yet to resolve on the WIN-XP machine is its inability to show the contents of all folders on its drive. Any suggestions to overcome this would be appreciated.
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by:mikecr
ID: 7148744
Could you be a little more specific? What can you or can't you see? What are you looking for? Are you trying to display hidden files and folders?
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by:kawed
ID: 7149148
How it started was I went into Windows Explorer to view the cab files (To find the Netbui files). On most computers that have the OS preloaded on the drive they are stored in C:\windows\options\cabs\  folder. When I go to view this folder it shows as being empty. Also when I view the C:\windows\start menu\programs\startup folder, it also displays as being empty yet I know I have three shortcuts in that folder.

I went into "Tools" menu and selected "folder options" and went to the "view" settings to set it to display all hidden & system folders. This didn't work.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Author Comment

by:kawed
ID: 7149176
How it started was I went into Windows Explorer to view the cab files (To find the Netbui files). On most computers that have the OS preloaded on the drive they are stored in C:\windows\options\cabs\  folder. When I go to view this folder it shows as being empty. Also when I view the C:\windows\start menu\programs\startup folder, it also displays as being empty yet I know I have three shortcuts in that folder.

I went into "Tools" menu and selected "folder options" and went to the "view" settings to set it to display all hidden & system folders. This didn't work.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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by:mikecr
ID: 7149588
If the cabs folder is empty, it probably is empty if you enabled seeing system files. As for the other, keep in mind that each person that is logged into the computer has his/her own startup group when they log in. You will find this under your profile under the Documents and Settings directory.
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