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Hard Drives/Controllers

Posted on 2002-07-29
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I have two integrated controllers on my FIC AZ11EA mobo.  These will handle Ultra DMA100 (ATA100??).  I currently have a Memorex 40x12x48 CDRW, Creative DVD 12x, 6G Hard drive.  These are running fine but I am low on hard drive space.
I have just ordered a 60G ATA100 Maxtor drive from CompUSA for a whopping $50 final cost ($129-$20 instant-$60 mail-in).
1 - I can't figure out if it comes with the Ultra cable, I am guessing not.  So I need to buy a cable in addition to this?
2 - I am not certain I will be able to run this with the proper efficiency if it is chained with one of the other devices.  Can I put it on one of the integrated controllers with the DVD, CDRW, or 6G hard drive (on an Ultra cable) and still get ATA100 throughput?
This only has a 50-point value.  If one person appropriately answers both I will double the points.  If two different people provide the answers I will post another question for the second answer.
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Question by:slink9
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sorgie earned 100 total points
ID: 7186791
Yes the drive will come with the cable. I have purchased Ultra 100's from CompUSA and the cable is included.

Are you going to use the new drive as your primary??
If so then I would suggest you make the 60 as master on the primary IDE controller and the 6GB as the slave

Connect your CDburner to the master on the secondary IDE controller and the DVD as slave.

If not slave the new 60GB to the primary IDE with your HD then put the CD's on the secondary as above

JMHO
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by:slink9
ID: 7186830
Is it going to work at ATA100 chained with an ATA33?
Yes the 60G will be the master and I will eventually zap the 6G and use it to Ghost the 60G to as long as it will hold it all (compressed, of course).
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by:sorgie
ID: 7186882
If the 6GB is a 33 then use it as master on the secondary and the dvd as slave

Use your burner as the slave on the primary with the 60GB as master.
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by:slink9
ID: 7186901
When the BIOS boots it also shows the CDRW as a 33.  That is probably because it is on a standard IDE cable, though.
I doubt the 6G is anything beyond that in speed since it is about five years old.
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by:sorgie
ID: 7186924
Probably. The speed of the drive should have no affect on the CDRW
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by:slink9
ID: 7186968
I remember something about two devices on the same chain both running at the speed of the slowest.  From what you are saying, this doesn't apply here, though.
I will leave it open for a day or so and see what other opinions I get.  Thanks.
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by:magarity
ID: 7187021
The industry standard is to give out 80pin cables with controllers, not drives.  I suspect the drive will not come with a cable unless it is in the most deluxe of retail boxes.

I would put it with the DVD as its slave.  I've tested this kind of configuration in my lab (back in the good old days) and the hard drive benchmark was indistiguishable from standalone as long as the DVD was not accessed at the same time.  IDE handles both devices on a given chain poorly when accessed at the same time.  There's just no getting around that, even if both were hotshot hard drives.
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by:slink9
ID: 7187580
Now I guess I need to leave it open to see if I get a cable with the drive.  The information I found on it seemed to lean toward no Ultra cable included but never specifically stated.
Magarity, are you saying that if I purchase a $30 controller I will get a $20 cable included?  That sounds like a better deal than just buying the cable alone.
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by:magarity
ID: 7188068
Well, I know for certain that both Promise and SIIG brand controllers ($30 - $40) come with a pair of cables in the retail box.  Not sure about whitebox or other brands.  My motherboard also came with a pair of cables, so I'm suprised yours didn't.
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by:slink9
ID: 7188227
Mine came with standard cables, I think.  I will check around and see if I have a cable or two lying around.  Thanks.
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by:Griffon
ID: 7188244
I believe that whoever said that the slowest device marks the speed is correct. not sure whether things have changed in the few years since I was studying.....

Anyway I believe the reason for this is because the cable has a speed set on it for data access although the two different IDE ports can have different speeds set you cannot run two different speeds on the same cable. something to do with computers being dumb ;)

Think that is the way it is although I am sure I will be corrected.

Griffon.
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by:sorgie
ID: 7188336
I have purchased two drives from compusa, One was a WD and the other was there own brand and both came with 80 wire ribbon cables
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by:slink9
ID: 7188380
Maybe so.  We will see.
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by:Kyle Schroeder
ID: 7188966
I would temporarily put the new drive on as secondary master, disconnect the DVD/CD-RW.  Use Maxtor's MaxBlast utility (or Ghost with partition expansion) to copy the old 6GB drive over to a partition on the new drive. Then boot up from the 6GB again and set the new drive as active (which should disabled the old drive's active status).  Then swap the new drive into Pri/Master, the old 6GB as Pri/Slave, DVD as Sec/Master, and CD-RW as Sec/Slave.

In my understanding, the only time that mixing IDE devices slows down the bus is if you are actively accessing both the master and slave at the same time (copying files from the 6GB to the 60GB in my scheme above, or from DVD to CD-RW.

Also, if the drive is a retail drive, it will have the UltraATA cable in the box, and maybe a mounting kit to put it in a 5 1/4" bay also (at least that's how my last Maxtor drive from Buy.com came).

-dog*
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by:slink9
ID: 7189423
Since you introduced that one, I will follow up with it.
My 6G is divided into a 2G C drive and a 4G D drive.  I have backed them up to CDRW using Ghost.  The plan was to put the new drive in by itself initially and restore from the CDRWs.  I have a Ghost boot disk and can restore using this method.
I want to create the following partitions on the 60G.
Partition 1 - 8G C drive which will take the almost full 2G I have now and leave room for new programs
Partition 2 - 17G D drive to take the half full 4G and leave plenty of room for expansion
The final 35G will be saved for a later format and installation of dual-boot XP.
Does this sound like a good plan?  Can I move the 35G partition to G so I can still have my DVD and CDRW as E and F?
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by:Kyle Schroeder
ID: 7189627
Yeah, Win2K/XP will let you set whatever drive letters you want for your drive partitions, and optical drives.

-dog*
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by:slink9
ID: 7190152
Will the 98SE which is on C and D still allow me to have the NTFS partition as G?
The drive shipped yesterday so I should know in a couple of days.
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by:magarity
ID: 7190706
"Will the 98SE which is on C and D still allow me to have the NTFS partition"

I trust you know Win98 cannot see an NTFS partition in the first place.  Its fdisk will list it as 'unknown partition'.  So it doesn't care what letter you've assigned to NTFS partitions under NT/2K/XP.
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by:slink9
ID: 7190736
Yes.  I knew about the unknown partition to 98SE.  It does make sense that since it doesn't know how to address it the thing will be ignored.  Live and learn.
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by:Kyle Schroeder
ID: 7190855
You can get NTFS for 98 from www.sysinternals.com if you want and that will give you read-only access to the NTFS partition from within Win98.  Nice if you want to read MP3s or something off that drive...

-dog*
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by:slink9
ID: 7190875
With a 17G partition for pictures and movies and a 35G XP partition I will duplicate thigs if I really have to.  It is interesting, though, to see what kind of workarounds are available.
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by:magarity
ID: 7191361
But since the other direction:  XP > FAT32 works perfectly well, just be sure to save anything you plan to need in 98 gets saved on a FAT32 partition when using XP.

I assume this is a standalone machine, so you don't really need all the security that is the main benefit of NTFS.
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by:slink9
ID: 7191393
It's networked, but only with my kids' computer.  It will be accessing the internet soon via a 2-way DirectTV feed.  Wouldn't NTFS security be of value on a broadband internet connection?
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by:magarity
ID: 7191619
No.  Only proper software or hardware firewalling.  Download the free personal use version of zonealarm if you don't have anything already.
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by:slink9
ID: 7191668
Maybe I will do FAT32 whenever I get XP, then.
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by:slink9
ID: 7196589
It came with everything.  I already had a cable, even.  It was being used on my CDRW/DVD drives.  Now I have two.  I am going to wait until I verify that everything is working well before I put the 6G back in the chain.
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