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finding the best motherboard for the job.

hello there fellow experts,

im wondering if anyone has come across a motherboard that has support for all of the following, i have searched high and low and dont seem to be able to find anything usefull,

needs,
8x agp,
232pin rd 4200 ram (min 4 banks)
p4 3gig+ support
overclockability,
the last one isnt a must but would be good, although rd ram can be run at about 150%, the units we will be selling will be stock speeds, the overclocking bit is for me really, incase anyone is interested i have seen aopen have got a board that has a max fsb clock of 992mhz :)

would a p4 3.06 hack that and would having the multiplier set to about 3ish (as close to origional clock as can be had, 3.5 maybe :) give any performance decrease? if anyone could explain the fsb question in enough detail for me to understand ill set em 200 points, i know about the fsb x multiplier = clock speed  stuffs, that isnt the issue, its just a pre pentium explosion question :) i will be investing in super cooling btw,

points as follows
100 for motherboard finding
200 for p4 fsb question

thank you all for your attention
skunk
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skunk_good
Asked:
skunk_good
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1 Solution
 
CovenantCommented:
AFAIK the only way you are going to get the multiplier changed on the P4 is to beg/borrow/steal an engineering sample P4.

If you are going for high FSB on a P4 you are probably best to go the DDR route, especially with a new Intel chipset due out in 2nd half of this year which will (probably) support the new 667fsb P4 and DDR2.

Best of luck anyway :)
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skunk_goodAuthor Commented:
ahhh but you can clock rimms to 150% so they would beat the ddr, :) and i can bridge the p4 to open the clock settings (carefully of course) and the 232 pin array on the rimms would kill all competition specially using 2 controllers with one slot free in each ;)
thanks anyway :)
i might wait to see what is brought out next and see how theses questions can be asked again after these points have been awarded
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rrhunt28Commented:
Why spend so much extra money to buy the expesnive rdram then spend alot of time making it go faster than the cheaper ddr.  Not to mention if anything goes wrong you have a very expensive paper weight... er no not even that the memory does not weigh enough.
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nwmsugradCommented:
I confer with hunt 28 rdram is going to fail and be replaced by ddr then double ddr eventually rdram is a technology that has failed in the marketplace and will eventually be eliminated even if it it technically superior in some ways
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rrhunt28Commented:
Yes with out the marketing power rdram is doomed.  Who knows, maybe intel will go back to a rd system in the near future and mass market it.  But it does not look good.  And I used to work for a large computer store.  People who first bought the p4's with rd would come in looking for memory, and we did not even carry it because of its cost and the fact it was not used anymore in what we sold.  People would get very upset.  So alot of people have been burned once on rd, they wont be likely to go back.  But good luck finding your motherboard.
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skunk_goodAuthor Commented:
hehe good comments guys but this isnt the issue :) i have weighed up the pro's n cons and taken the unbiased route to research the different ram types, ddr is cheap, granted but the 4200 rimms on 32 bit bus running an 800mhz bus (clocked from 533) (i dont mean standard 400mhz rimm speed) would yeild a lot more performance from any processor than is poss with ddr, dont forget that if i posted this goin specifically for rimm i must have good cause,
its like the problem with geforces fx, the chip is a marvel but the bus isnt fast enough to keep it at max pace
 thanks anyway guys :)
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Kyle SchroederEndpoint EngineerCommented:
I don't know that there are any 8X AGP boards with RDRAM support out there (maybe a SiS-chipset??)...

http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/socket478/p4t533-c/overview.htm# Asus P4T533-C.  No 8X AGP, but it doesn't really matter anyway (does have an AGP Pro slot though!)

-dog*
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Kyle SchroederEndpoint EngineerCommented:
In general, a higher FSB wins out over a lower one, at the same total clock rate...if you have some hack to unlock a P4, then I guess you can try it.  I dunno if I'd want to try doing some funky hardware mod on my shiny new ~$600 P4-3.06 though...

-dog*
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rrhunt28Commented:
That is my point... the potential to ruin alot of money.  What is this machine going to be used for?
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skunk_goodAuthor Commented:
hehe i had bin lookin at that board too, and thought it was the best choice (unless my miracle board was found),
this is all speculation at the mo, i am in the process of evaluating the best products performance wise and deciding upon what will fit the wallet and tasks i will throw at it, (is agp pro the wildcat 4 compatable one?   :)

i will be using the pc for absolutely over the top gaming, and after wasting more than a few pounds (yes im english) on my last rambus system, i am out for blood (virtual kind).
bascically money is no option,
games must be like nothing before,
and although it sounds good to over clock it to max fsb i will probably not do it due to the life reduction, but i would like to know about it so i can when what i have bought is obsolete (again).
sorry ill finish this post when i get home, im just about to get thrown outta work,

thanks for ur posts again :)
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skunk_goodAuthor Commented:
would the p4 react to the fsb overclock (even with multiplier down to keep actual clock speeds the same) as it would a multiplier clocking?
and would a liquid cooler help :)
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rrhunt28Commented:
Well as far as your FSB, your only as strong as your weakest link from what I know.  And liquid coolers are very good at cooling.  If you want to get very extreem look into the computer cases that have AC built in.  They are alittle tricky to install, but they keep the processor cold as ice.  That is one way to make sure you do not over heat.  And to a extent the cooler the chip, the better it will run.  
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Kyle SchroederEndpoint EngineerCommented:
Yeah, maybe you'd want the Vapochill unit like they used at www.hardocp.com.  I think you're going to have trouble finding your "super board" since even Intel has pretty much given up on using RAMBUS at this point...just be sure you get the Radeon 9700Pro (or hell, get the AIW model for TV, etc too!) and some nice 7200RPM/8MB Cache WD or Maxtor HD's...

-dog*
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rrhunt28Commented:
Get a board with serial ata 133, like the a7v8x, then get a seagate v barracuda.  
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rrhunt28Commented:
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rrhunt28Commented:
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1301&page=3

You might take a look at this, it explanes why it is impossible to find a modern board with rambus.
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PublicFatalityCommented:
i know this isn't much of a help and that i'm entering the conversation a little late but even if the RIMMS are installe don a 32bit bus aren't they only capable of fetching 8bits at a time, that means 4 clock cycles for a full 32bit fetch--who cares if it runs at 800mhz if it takes four clock cycles to do what could be done in 1--thats just my two cents.  Comments?

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skunk_goodAuthor Commented:
:) i think ill be investing in the beasty drives deffo, never thought about that, thanks dogztar :)
this is what spawned my new rdram fantasy http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/AX4T-533Pro.htm but it only has agp 4x and i think only supports 184 pin ram :( (would you look at the max overclock on the suckers chipset :P )  i know that it would be a 'bit' of a risk to clock the bus at that speed tho :)
just how much of a risk it is reamains to be seen,

thanks for your posts peeps
as i get news ill post it

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skunk_goodAuthor Commented:
why would they only fetch 8 bits per cycle? :S
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PublicFatalityCommented:
Sorry skunk, I was mistaken, the RDRAM runs at 16bits not 8bits.  Still much less then DDR's 64bit width... Heres a page to read up on it:

http://www.karbosguide.com/hardware/module2e4.htm#RDRAM

The advantage of RDRAM is that it runs so fast, but its like sucking on a McD's milkshake, you can't pull all that data through such a small straw so you increase the speed.  In any case it still means the memory controller must fetch 4 times to do what DDR does in one or two fetch cycles.  Whihc one is faster?  Who really knows, its like comparing apples to oranges... BUT I will tell you this DDR may only run at 133mhz bus it is capable of doing three times the amount of work at 133mhz,  Hence, double data rate, a 133mhz bus running the DRR at 133mhz can support a transfer of x2, x2.5, and now x3.  (266, 333m and 400mhz DDR repsectavily )  Remember DDR is 64bits wide. So DDR maybe slower but its actually doing more at a slower speed.  

Sorry, just plaing devils advocate.
Kris

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rrhunt28Commented:
If your set on the rdram i say have fun with it.  But like I said before, your only as fast as your slowest part.  If you look at that one motherboard i posted, it has a matched bus/processor.  So each runs at the same speed.  And that is all the speed you are going to get out of it.  And Public makes a good point, I had forgot about rd taking less info per cycle.  I just want to make sure you have double checked all your options before you spend the kind of money your talking about.  Otherwise you wont be happy.  And some poor kid with an Athlon will smoke you.  HEHE.  Good luck and it does sound like your putting together a kick butt game machine.  
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pjknibbsCommented:
>>and i can bridge the p4 to open the clock settings (carefully of course)<<

No, you can't. The multiplier setting for a P4 is not stored using bridges on the CPU surface, like they are on an Athlon--they're written to a special area of non-volatile memory on board the processor itself, and unless you have access to whatever tool Intel uses to accomplish this task, you CANNOT change the multiplier.
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skunk_goodAuthor Commented:
hehe i see what you mean publicfatality, i was reading up on that the day i made the question :-) dont forget though im talking about 232 pin rd ram which as more likely to be 32 bit :) i think at this rate i will be goin for the athon machine (why not, i could get a thoroughbred 2 core 2700+) but im still not sure if the ddr would clock as well as the rimms, and thus a greater result may be achieved, i guess ill have to see how an overlocking session on my rd800 rimms goes and then try my ddr333 computer, see what scales the best and yields the best sis sandra scores.
piknibbs i think im gonna cry because of what u jus told me (at least i wont have to crack off the spreader on the cpu to find i cant do it) cant some motherboards force the speeds from the bios (i think my mate in isle of man has a sweet board that lets him, but it might be an older p4 not sure)

did anyone look at the aopen board :-)
funky monkey i say :P
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rrhunt28Commented:
I am a Asus fan myself.  If you are going big go for the xp3000 chip, with 3 gig of ddr.  That should be enough power to keep you rocken.
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skunk_goodAuthor Commented:
after much deliberation im goin for the ddr, ill whack out a few dummy questions soon to dish out some even points, thanks for your help peeps :)

ax45-8x max
p4 2.53
1 gig ddr 400
dual 40 gig raid 7200

as u can see im going for a smaller processor, funds dont allow the mac daddy, so some serious cooling and fsb clocking is in order.

again thanks for the help
you have all been most informative,
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skunk_goodAuthor Commented:
maybe a 9800 pro tho :)
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skunk_goodAuthor Commented:
i liked the fact that you jus didnt say its better/worse u said why and how, thank you
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skunk_goodAuthor Commented:
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Kyle SchroederEndpoint EngineerCommented:
Thanks skunk, you're a good guy.  See ya around!

-dog*
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