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Installing second hard drive

Posted on 2003-03-11
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I recently installed a second hard drive as secondary into my computer.  The second hard drive is brand new and need to be formatted.  

The BIOS detected both hard drives, but my computer detected only the old hard drive (primary).

Please instruct HOW TO perform the installation and format for this secondary hard drive.

Thanks in advance.
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Question by:NVT
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32 Comments
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:TooKoolKris
ID: 8112805
Have you properly configured the drives for Master & Slave? Are these drives on the same controller?

Hope This Helps,
TKK
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LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:compuphonic
ID: 8112828
Which OS are you using?
Can you give more details on the setup, as reported by the BIOS ie which drives are primart master, primary slave, secondary master and secondary slave

What model are the drives, might just be a jumper that requires changing.
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LVL 3

Accepted Solution

by:
bjorndahlen earned 100 total points
ID: 8112996
Boot from a floppy, and run FDISK if you haven't
done so already. verify or create an extended partition
on your second harddrive with at least one
logical drive, and format.
Bootup, and windows should now be able to see
your second drive.

The reason for making the partition on the second
harddrive an extended rather than primary is to prevent
win9x messing up the drive letter assignments on the first
drive should it contain an extended partition.
If your are running win2k (or XP), you have more flexability
with regard to drive letter assignments.




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LVL 18

Expert Comment

by:chicagoan
ID: 8113079
If the bios detected the drive, the jumpers are OK, however it's cabled. Textbook practice says to put the hard drives on seperate controllers as masters and run CD's and other storage as slaves, but if everything works OK leave it alone. bjorndahlen's comment about drive letters is apt, if your old drive had more than one partition (under 98 or earlier OS's) you'll see a new primary partition inserted as D: potentially breaking links to anything that WAS on D:

You can partition and format the drive from within windows, there's no real reason to boot from a floopy.
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LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:kiranghag
ID: 8113103
if you are using windows 2000/xp, you need to use disk administrator to create partitions and format them,,,
0
 
LVL 22

Expert Comment

by:Christopher McKay
ID: 8113233
"Please instruct HOW TO perform the installation and format for this secondary hard drive."
Hmmm..... as stated by the other experts above, this would be considerably easier with more information, however here are some basic steps for you to check:

1) You system (typically)has 2 IDE channels. 1 Primary, 1 Secondary. Your bootable drive typically is on the primary channel and is set to master. If your system has CD-ROM(s) they(it) will be set to one of the following 3: Primary slave, Secondary Master or Secondary slave.

To install a second Hard drve, you need to locate a free (available) connector on one of these channels. If you connect to the Primary Channel, you need to set your second hard drive to be a slave. In your situation, I would recommend you put the second hard drive on the primary channel, set as slave. (If you have a CD-ROM on the primary channel, you will need to move it to the secondary channel) If you set your hard drive to be on the secondary channel, you need to set it to be different from whatever else may be on that channel. (If you have a CD-ROM on that channel, you need to check to see if it is set as master or slave. I recommend setting the Hard drive to be master, and the CD-ROM to be slave. So, if you have a CD-ROM on the second channel and it is set to be slave, then you need to change the CD-ROM to be slave, and set the Hard drive to be master.)

Once this is done, you need to boot the machine and make sure the BIOS CORRECTLY recognizes the drive. (There is potential for the system to recognize the drive as less than it actually is.) The Size shown by the BIOS should be close to the size of the drive. If it is not close (off by many GB), then you will need to get an upgrade for your BIOS (search the net for BIOS updates for your motherboard).

If your BIOS correctly detects your new Hard drive, then you are ready to format the drive. Methods for formatting the drive will differ based upon what operating system you are using. Here are a couple of methods:

Windows 9x
Open "My computer"
Look for a new drive listing, if it appears, use the right mouse button to click on it, and select "format"
If it does NOT appear in "My Computer" then you may need to fdisk the drive to get it to work.

Using Fdisk
Download and create a Windows 98 SE bootable floppy from www.bootdisk.com
boot your system with the boot disk, choose to enable CD-ROM support.
once at the command prompt type the fdisk command (it should look like the following:
A:\>fdisk

Choose to enable large disk support. Then change drives to be the new drive (If memory serves, this is option 5). Create a primary partition on the new drive using the entire space on the drive. exit Fdisk (pushing escape) remove the boot disk an reboot the system. Format as above (from windows)

Windows 2000 / XP (I think this works for XP too..)
Open computer management
select disk management
Select the new drive
Use the right mouse button to click on the new drive, and select format.

Hope this helps!

:o)

Bartender_1

0
 

Expert Comment

by:slagbanger
ID: 8113262
To keep drive letters you can right click on my computer, go to properties, then win98/me:device manager or win2000/xp:hardware then device manager.

Select the cd drive in question and select properties/settings, then select the drive letter you want for it.

Beats reloading some software that can be funny about drive letters if you use a cd
0
 
LVL 3

Expert Comment

by:bjorndahlen
ID: 8113274
Actually (despite what some textbooks say) you
should be better putting your fast devices (eg HDD's)
on the primary channel, and the slow devices such as
CDROM drives on the secondary. The reason for this is
that reads/writes to the cd are relatively slow long lasting
operations and will block operations on the channel.
Given the bandwidth on an IDE channel, putting two
HDD on one channel should not be much of an issue.









0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:TooKoolKris
ID: 8113314
Geeeesh you guys are a trip why don't you copy and paste the whole hardware manual in here as well?

The first thing that needs to happen is for windows to see the new HD, after that you can worry about all this other stuff.

If the HD's are on the same controller then make sure the jumper settings are either both set to "cable select" or the first one is "Master" and the second is "Slave".

If they are on different controllers then make sure the HD is the master and the CD-Rom is the slave. You can use cable select here as well.

When you get windows to recognize both HD's then we can go from there.

TKK
0
 
LVL 18

Expert Comment

by:chicagoan
ID: 8113424
Let's write the book bjorndahlen !
In a master/slave configuration you'll be limited to the controller speed of the master. Typically you new drive is faster. ATA still uses an ST506-like serial communications scheme. By putting your swap file on the new drive, which will be empty - thereby placing it near the faster first sectors, you'll see some performance gains along with not having to compete with the old drive over the controller channel for command queue... a real plus IMHO. This is all rather esoteric and the gains might be more seen in benchmarks more than 'felt' by the user. As I said, if it works, leave it alone.
0
 

Author Comment

by:NVT
ID: 8113601
To answer some experts:

By "Secondary", I meant "slave".  My primary HD is a 20gig Maxtor, and the slave HD is a 100gig Western Digital HD.

My purpose for this new 100 gig HD is for storing data.

My primary (Maxtor) HD operates under XP Professional.

I am certained that I had the jumper configured correctly.

Both harddrives use the same controller.

Is there a way to make boot or startup floppy disk from win XP?
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LVL 22

Assisted Solution

by:Christopher McKay
Christopher McKay earned 100 total points
ID: 8113700
boot disks for XP can be found at www.bootdisk.com

If you computer is running XP Professional, have you already tried going into disk management and verifying that XP recognized the drive?
(To verify exactly where it it located in XP, search for "disk management" in help)
Does your BIOS recognize it correctly?

Hope this helps!

:o)

Bartender_1
0
 
LVL 22

Expert Comment

by:Christopher McKay
ID: 8113721
boot disks for XP can be found at www.bootdisk.com

If you computer is running XP Professional, have you already tried going into disk management and verifying that XP recognized the drive?
(To verify exactly where it it located in XP, search for "disk management" in help)
Does your BIOS recognize it correctly?

Hope this helps!

:o)

Bartender_1
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:compuphonic
ID: 8113725
Some drives have a 'single master' jumper and a 'master with slave' jumper. The name for this can vary with the manufacturer. Its worth checking you've got the master with slave set on the Maxtor and slave on the WD.

Chicagoan, some BIOSs will detect an incorrectly configured master/slave config, depending on the root of the problem.

If all is well XP should see the drive in control panel->Administrative Tools->Computer Management->Disk Management.

If its not listed here 99% certain its a hardware config issue
0
 
LVL 22

Expert Comment

by:Christopher McKay
ID: 8113743
ooops.... sorry for the double post. (Darn refresh button. ~LOL~)
0
 
LVL 3

Expert Comment

by:bjorndahlen
ID: 8114068
Chigagoan,

>>In a master/slave configuration you'll be limited to the controller speed of the master<<

Don't know about that, my understanding is that
IDE devices on the same channel will use the lowest maximum transfer mode of both devices, regardless of
which one is master.

For instance, if you have a CDROM running at PIO mode 4, and a harddisk running at ATA66 on the same channel,
both devices will run at PIO mode 4.

The optimum configuration is going to depend on a lot
of factors, such as motherboard support, OS used,
DMA enabled CD-rom drive, etc

Without knowing much about a user's system,
I feel that keeping the HDD's on one channel, and
optical devices on the other is most likely to yield
the best performance (and require the least tweaking).

Since my last comment it appears that NVT already got
the HDD's on the same channel, I suggest you keep them there. In addition it seems your BIOS is aware of both
drives.
You can download a bootfloppy including
FDISK with support for drives > 64GB from
several sites for example http://radified.com/Files

Cheers :-}
0
 
LVL 3

Expert Comment

by:bjorndahlen
ID: 8114174
Add-on to last comment.
I see you are running XP.
If I remember correctly, XP will set PIO mode by
default for cd-rom drives.
Once you got your second HDD working,
you may want to head into the device manager and
verify/change current transfer mode from "PIO only"
to "DMA if available" if your optical device supports this.
Bjorn
0
 

Expert Comment

by:heuristick
ID: 8120623
Hi! Someone already mentioned this briefly, but if you have XP an easy way to get a new HD up and running is to click Start>Control Panel>Administrative Tools>Computer Management. It will open up a two sided window, where you can click on Storage on the right side. Then click on Disk Management. You should see a graphic representation of all your drives, including the new drive. However, since it's not formatted and has no drive letter, XP won't display it in Windows Explorer until you do this>>. So, right click on the new drive representation (I *think* XP calls this "RAW", and it should say 100GB) and choose format. I'd take NTFS and call it what you will. After, you should be able to see it in Windows Explorer, though you may want to add partitions as well. Again, if you right click on the drive graphic (or the drive letter above the graphic) you can choose partition and set it's size. I think this is what you want to know, and I hope it works out! If you have any problems, or are missing something (Disk Management snap-in?), post. If you already solved it, good job! ;-)

One point. If your new drive is faster/better than your old, why don't you make that your primary (MASTER)and the other for storage (SLAVE)? I'd partition the drive into C: for XP (6GB), D: for program Files and Documents (12GB+?) and E: for DATA. That way even if XP crashes you can reformat C: and D: and still have all your data. The old drive could be F:Music or whatever. I dunno if this is a great way to do it, but I've had two FATAL crashes with XP and lost no data under this partitioning scheme...
Anyway, good luck!

bjorndahlen, here's something I found:
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/confTiming-c.html

so I guess it depends on how new his mobo is, probably... ;-)
0
 

Expert Comment

by:heuristick
ID: 8120633
Hi! Someone already mentioned this briefly, but if you have XP an easy way to get a new HD up and running is to click Start>Control Panel>Administrative Tools>Computer Management. It will open up a two sided window, where you can click on Storage on the right side. Then click on Disk Management. You should see a graphic representation of all your drives, including the new drive. However, since it's not formatted and has no drive letter, XP won't display it in Windows Explorer until you do this>>. So, right click on the new drive representation (I *think* XP calls this "RAW", and it should say 100GB) and choose format. I'd take NTFS and call it what you will. After, you should be able to see it in Windows Explorer, though you may want to add partitions as well. Again, if you right click on the drive graphic (or the drive letter above the graphic) you can choose partition and set it's size. I think this is what you want to know, and I hope it works out! If you have any problems, or are missing something (Disk Management snap-in?), post. If you already solved it, good job! ;-)

One point. If your new drive is faster/better than your old, why don't you make that your primary (MASTER)and the other for storage (SLAVE)? I'd partition the drive into C: for XP (6GB), D: for program Files and Documents (12GB+?) and E: for DATA. That way even if XP crashes you can reformat C: and D: and still have all your data. The old drive could be F:Music or whatever. I dunno if this is a great way to do it, but I've had two FATAL crashes with XP and lost no data under this partitioning scheme...
Anyway, good luck!

bjorndahlen, here's something I found:
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/confTiming-c.html

so I guess it depends on how new his mobo is, probably... ;-)
0
 

Expert Comment

by:heuristick
ID: 8120752
sorry! IE didn't register the fact that the comment went through... Also, Bartender mentioned how to do this (as did compuphonic), I just made it easier to understand, so they get the points if it helps, ok?
0
 
LVL 3

Expert Comment

by:bjorndahlen
ID: 8120842
Heuristick,
yeah the chipsets have moved from supporting only one
mode at a time (for both channels) to I believe independent
modes even for master and slave on the channel.
I'm still uncertain which operating systems (and chipset
drivers support this yet). Either way,
thank you for the pointer, I'll do some reading up
to see which chipsets this applies to, and what the OS
support situation is.
Cheers :-)
 
0
 

Expert Comment

by:SnO2d
ID: 8121108
+ Your BIOS can see the drive because it is plugged in correctly and is able to assign resources to it (no conflicts have occured)

+ Your operating system cannot see the drive simply because it has not been formatted.

- Set your boot sequence (in the BIOS) to CD-ROM, C, A and pop in your XP cd. Reboot, and press the necessary key to go into your setup. Follow the on screen instructions until you have the option to run a full format on the new disk (NTFS).

When you reboot, XP should be able to see the new drive.

Regards
SnO2d
0
 

Author Comment

by:NVT
ID: 8129743
Thank you ALL for comments and suggestions.  I was able to solve the problem(s).  Thanks!!!
0
 
LVL 32

Expert Comment

by:LucF
ID: 10246645
NVT,
No comment has been added lately (325 days), so it's time to clean up this TA.
I will leave a recommendation in the Cleanup topic area for this question:

RECOMMENDATION: split points between bjorndahlen http:#8112996 and Bartender_1 http:#8113700

Please leave any comments here within 7 days.

-- Please DO NOT accept this comment as an answer ! --

Thanks,

LucF
EE Cleanup Volunteer
0
 

Expert Comment

by:ndwork
ID: 11118774
What do you do if the bios doesn't see the second hard drive?  I have set up both hard drives to be in the master/slave configuration with jumper cables set correctly.  In the BIOS, I have set recognition to all IDE ports (primary/secondary - master/slave) to auto.  Yet, only the main hard drive is recognized by the BIOS.  Does anyone have any suggestions?
0
 

Expert Comment

by:ndwork
ID: 11118864
I should also note that if I just install the second hard drive (the one currently installed as slave) as the master and only hard drive, then no hard drive is found by the BIOS.
0
 

Expert Comment

by:ndwork
ID: 11119045
If I configure the second hard drive as the master drive on the secondary IDE bus, then the BIOS recognizes the hard drive (with the proper storage space).  However, there is still only one disk present under disk management; disk 0 (not the new hard drive).  

I should note that this hard drive was previously configured as the only hard drive for another computer running Windows ME.  I would like it to be the only hard drive for that other computer again, running Windows XP instead of Windows ME.  Also, the computer that I have both hard drives installed into right now has Windows 2000 on it.
0
 

Expert Comment

by:ndwork
ID: 11119061
Also, fdisk only sees the old hard drive.
0
 
LVL 22

Expert Comment

by:Christopher McKay
ID: 11119717
ndwork:

First thing I should tell you is that you will receive a much better response from the experts on this site if you open a new question. (Then everyone is notified of your questions and can view it, and respond to it.) By choosing to comment in an existing question, you've restricted the number of people that will be notified of your question. (Only the people who have responded in this question will receive notification of your comments, everyone else on the site has no idea you have a question.)

That being said, it sounds as if your drive is having some hardware difficulties. I would recommend you check it with the manufacturers diagnostic tools. Typical manufacturer's websites are listed below, pick the manufacturer name for your HD, and download their diagnostic tools from their site, then follow their instructions to run these diagnostics on your drive.

Fujitsu Hard Drives:
http://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/hdd/

IBM Hard Drives:
http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/support/download.htm

Maxtor Hard Drives:
http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/index.htm

Seagate Hard Drives:
http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/index.html

Western Digital Hard Drives:
http://support.wdc.com/download/index.asp

Samsung Hard Drives:
http://www.samsung.com/Support/ProductSupport/index.htm


Hope this helps!

:o)

Bartender_1
0
 

Expert Comment

by:ndwork
ID: 11120401
Bartender_1:

     Thank you very much for your input.  I tried running the diagnostic tool from WEster Digital (It's a WD hard drive).  The error came back as "No Western Digital Hard Drive Found".  I guess this is a problem huh?  :)

     I found a site that claims it may have been an mbr virus that attacked my hard drive and corrupted it.  If so, is there anyway to fix this problem if I can't see the hard drive with any tool?

     Again, thank you for your help.

     -Nick
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LVL 22

Expert Comment

by:Christopher McKay
ID: 11120534
The master boot record of your hard drive would not display the symptoms you are describing.

If the Western Digital diagnostic tools don't recognize the drive, then I would recommend you contact Western Digital and explain the difficulty to them. If the drive is still under warranty, they will replace it for you.

:o)

Bartender_1
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