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98 installation burden after fdisk and format

Posted on 2003-03-12
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hello, been trying to install 98SE on this pc100 333 Mgz 6gb HD. starts with
start up disk, creates primary dos under fat32 and use full drive, then format C: from a prompt, shows initializing copying files for setup after scanning system but does not start the setup process. Sometimes it states to remove floppy, sometimes just goes back to prompt. I do have the antivirus disabled on the cmos setup. any light on this is greatly appreciated.
regards, matt
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Question by:keepcominbak
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55 Comments
 
LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8124558
Does your BIOS support booting to the CD-Rom?
Go into the CMOS setup and see if you can select the CD-Rom as the first boot device, then save and exit. Place the Win98 CD into the drive and restart the computer and it should start the install from the CD.
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LVL 97

Expert Comment

by:war1
ID: 8124585
Keepcominbak,
   Does your start up disk support boot up with CD ROM? If not, download one from www.bootdisk.com.  Create a boot up disk from the file. Boot up the computer with this disk. Be sure to select the option with CD ROM support. Now you can just type setup and you are on your way.

Best wishes, war1
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8124676
the startup disk shows findcd and mscdex.exe in virtual ram.
also tried the cmos to start up w/ cd first
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LVL 2

Expert Comment

by:ascension1014
ID: 8124755
exactly what error messages are receiving? At what point does it stop? Have you marked the new partition as active? Formatted after restart as promted? If you can give more detail, this shouldn't be too hard to figure this out...
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8124896
actually when i try to create partition it states already
created. when i set active it states already set. maybe i can delete and recreate but i think i tried that. fdisk/status shows partitioned and full usage. do not get any error mssgs. setup stops after the scanning of the drives and showing initializing setup to copy files but never starts the set up process.
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LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 8124940
try copying the cd to the hard drive and run set up from there
http://www.hexff.com/win98_install.html
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Expert Comment

by:esvaem6
ID: 8125417
start everything over?

Get yourself a real boot disk (bootdisk.com, i guess), hop into a DOS prompt from there, then

format c:\
FDisk (Partition, Set active, any logical partitions you want)
format c:\ (and any others)

I find formatting before partitioning to make me feel better :D
From there, run windows setup from CD (either access CD through boot disk OR boot to CD)

Good Luck
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Expert Comment

by:Groover2000
ID: 8126250
Maybe your cd-rom drive has problems with reading some data from your windows98 CD.
copy the setup files (you need only the files in WIN98 directory) from dos prompt to a directory on you harddisk as stevenlewis said.
assuming you have partitioned and formatted your harddrive correctly this will figure out if your Windows98 CD is bad (some scratches or somethig similar).

Good luck
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8128558
tried everything so far again. now i am going thru a process of elimination with the three hard drives one at a time. when all three hdds are hooked and i do an auto detect one is pri master, the next is pri slave, cd is secondary master and the third hd is sec slave.
I'm wondering if i have only one hd and cd would it make a differance if is is set on auto or user and does it make a diff if cd is pri master or pri slave etc.  for set up??
regards, matt
0
 

Expert Comment

by:MichalJ
ID: 8129480
Some older CDs do not like to be master and work only as slaves. Your idea of trying one hd and cd only may be very good. Have hd on IDE1 and CD on IDE2. Run fdisk and format again. If it doesnt help try to use hd manufacturer init software specific for your hd (it use to be ontrac).
(I had similar problem with older hd. When it was present on any IDE and newer hd was hooked up too system hang. When this guy was the only hd system worked fine)
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8129620
i'll try that. some folks all i need is format after fdisk.
others say format /s which does put the command.com on the hd i would lie to setup. after selecting setup ande 98 scans drive it itates i already have operating system on drive.
regards,matt
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8131459
Format without the "/s" , the ?s transfer the system files to the HD to make it bootable, but if you are trying to install with an OEM disk then the setup sees the system files as an OS and will halt.
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8132291
ok. with an oem 98 no need to format/s just format.
if everything is normal it shouls setup normally.
if i only try one hd and cd can i have ot from only ide#1
or can i try cd secondary master or primary slave
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8132440
it would be better to have the CD-Rom on different IDE then the HD, so I would have only one HD on primary IDE and put CD-Rom on secondary IDE.
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8132466
ok. put one on each ide. now after setup scans drive it tells me to remove floppy and restart. maybe i need to tell C: about the cd ??
0
 

Expert Comment

by:esvaem6
ID: 8132540
put cd first in boot order through bios?
0
 

Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8132612
i put cd in first boot under cmos and after setup scans drive it tells me to remove floppy. do i need to enter anything else on c: [rior to setup and after format?
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LVL 6

Expert Comment

by:CyberGhost
ID: 8135782
You maybe could try to disable your floppy drive and then try to boot from CD.

Or boot from floppy (of course I have to enable it again) and then try to run setup with the command /is (Setup.exe /is). This will not check your system and start copying files immediately.

If nothing of these will work, try to copy the instalation (somewhere where Windows is running because of long copy time through DOS and long names and so) to your HDD, disable (or even unplug) all your devices (excepting floppy and HDD) and try to install from HDD.
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8136049
i'll try that. seems i tried everything else. it seem like there is not a problem with hd because i tried three different hdds on all differant installation methods i know.every time the setup completes scanning drives it simply goes to prompt. I did have windows on the comp at one time. I have the original motherboard software for ide
etc. but i do not know if i can install that without windows. although it seems there would be an error message if the system wasn't ready. I wonder if it can make a differance with hd being primary master and cd being secondary master without any slaves or any other combination in cmos.
regards, matt
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8136142
this computer does not have any windows on it
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8139815
Does your BIOS see the HD correctly? when first booting watch on screen for something about "hit Del to enter setup" and do that, look and be sure the HD is shown at the correct size.

What make is the HD? some HD's do not work when set as master in a standalone setup (western digital is one such brand) there may be a seperate jumper setting for each: master with slave, master alone, and slave
0
 

Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8144139
Seems bios reads it. I got hd back again on primary and cd on secondary. Tried three differant 6 gb hdds.  Maxtor, Quantum Fireball and a Samsung. tried auto detect, auto and user on all three hdds. these drives all had windows on it before on the same system at differant times. after i enter setup by itself or with /ie or /is, it has the same results. tried setup from cd and tried it by copying oem cd on hd. each method, set up scans drives and then has the message "initializing and copying files and then goes back to prompt without starting setup process.  regards, matt
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178017
thanx everybody for all your input. i guess i will put this matter on the back burner for now.
regards, matt
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8178161
Since it seems this is not confined to one HD, have you tried a different Win98 disk? Maybe even a different CD-Rom?
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178232
hello,
i'm only trying one hd at at time. cd could be bad but it was ok a little while ago. i recently used the oem 98 disk
to install another comp.
matt
0
 

Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178247
i have the original system cd for the motherboard but i do not know how to install that in dos. wouldn't the 98 disk
have the ide drivers on it??
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8178261
<<wouldn't the 98 disk have the ide drivers on it>>

No not at all, you would need to check the manufactuers site for a Win98 chipset driver if your current MB driver disk is for Win95
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178269
ok, but i had 98 installed on these drives prior on the same system
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8178271
What is make and model of this system or of the motherboard. Maybe we can help you find drivers.
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8178278
<<but i had 98 installed on these drives prior on the same system>>

But if you formatted or srease them then the drivers would be gone, you simply need to reinstall it.
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8178281
srease = erase
0
 

Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178290
all drives have been formatted.. seems it does not recognize them
0
 

Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178295
it's a socket seven 530 isi pcchip
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178298
pc100
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178309
i have the original system board disk but i'm not sure i could install it in dos
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8178356
OK, the drivers do not need installed until Windows is running, up till then the BIOS handles the "drivers"

The BIG question is DOES your BIOS see the HD? and explain what you mean by "seems so"  either the BIOS see the HD's or it doesn't. If it see them then check the size listed in the BIOS and make sure they are correct.
0
 

Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178376
bios reads all dives sizes correctly and when powers up shows manufacterer
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8178396
Boot to a Win98 bootdisk, at the prompt type "C:" and hit enter, then at the C:\ type "DIR" and hit enter and see what all is listed there.
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178419
shows no files
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8178459
OK, now type "scandisk" and hit enter, choose to do full surface scan.
0
 
LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8178464
If scandisk does not show any problems then you should be able to run setup and install Win98.
0
 

Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178490
did the full scandisk a few times before but i'l do it again. i noticed the jumper on cd rom was on slave although cmos sees it as secondary master. i thought i could change the jumper to master. i was able to copy cd to hd once in dos but maybe i could do that regardless if jumper on rom is on master ,csel or slave??
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178609
i did full scans in all drives and when i start setup it goes thru the usual scan and then states initializing and starting copying files for setup and then goes to prompt or tells me to remove floppy and restart but always goes back to c prompt and never starts the setup process. maybe it can not make a bootable hard drive although fdisk and format appears normal. i've tried diferant boot diskettes and differant hdds, the 98 disk installed on differant comp ok.
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8178635
Once you start the setup then the bootdisk has done it job just fine, it is just to give you access to the CD-Rom prior to starting setup.
Sounds like there is either a problem with the Win98 disk or the CD-Rom has a problem.

Try copying the Win98 disk over to the HD again and see if that will work. If it copies the files then we can assume there isn't a problem reading the disk.
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178674
i'll try that again. one time i got alot further with copying to hd. but after that it did the same thing as if i was setting up from cd. and that was without doing the
md win98, md windows, md windows/options, md windows/options/cabs
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8178763
I am wondering if this could be a heat related problem, durning the install the CPU is working hard and if there is some dust build up or maybe a weak fan then it may be a overheating problem.

This is a strange problem for sure.
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8178788
well i will certainly let you know if it gets resolved as i appreciate your help. i have done alot of elimination of guess work due to your input rayt
0
 

Expert Comment

by:MichalJ
ID: 8178831
<<jumper on cd rom was on slave although cmos sees it as secondary master.>> and you said later <<pc100>> so you probably have 80 strands ide ribbon. With some mb it is sensitive what is plugged to what. Match color on motherboard with ribbon. Set jumper on cd to CS. It it works, fine, if not set jumper on cd to master. What BIOS see must be the same what is set.

Do not try to install your motherboard chipset drivers because you do not have the system to install it on. This drivers are for windows. During windows installation generic drivers will be used and installed. These drivers works with any chipset. After installation follow motherboard manual to install drivers. Some mb recommend deleting chipset components from Device Manager and providing inf in a process, some simply run provided setup, some enter "?" entries in DM and changing driver. But all this will be later.
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8178834
something else you can do is remove all removable cards (modem, sound, ect) and disconnect any external devices (printer, scanner, ect) and bring it down to just the bare items needed and see if this helps get windows installed.
Then add each item back one at a time with a reboot in between each one.
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Expert Comment

by:MichalJ
ID: 8178841
A little info :) When CPU is iddle it works exactly as hard as it is doing any proccessing (install for example) unless it is in any of possible power saving mode.  
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LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:rayt333
ID: 8178887
<<A little info :)>>

That is so very untrue, when CPU isn't working (idle) it produces very little heat, but when it is working it produces heat and will raise the temp so high as to cause a shutdown , crash, or just freezes up.
My system runs at about 95 degrees normally, but when I am running an intense program the temps will go up to 140 in a matter of about 10 minutes. When I close that program the temps will drop back to normal in a few minutes.
0
 

Expert Comment

by:MichalJ
ID: 8178946
You are right. I am an old timer thinking idle=NOP loop=same instruction as any other. Wait state can be different these days.:)
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Author Comment

by:keepcominbak
ID: 8184671
well i tried many differant things again and i tried the same thing over  and over and expected different results.
finally, i pulled out hd and cdrom and tried the same hd and cdrom again in an old dusty system i had laying on the shelf. and it setup rite away with no problems. apparently the system i have been trying has a mobo or bios issue not allowing me to setup. now i am wondering if i can put the windows loaded hd back on the system that did not allow me to set up even though there is an issue not allowing the setup of windows??
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LVL 17

Accepted Solution

by:
rayt333 earned 1000 total points
ID: 8184825
Before you reinstall into this system, copy the complete Win98  CD to a folder on the HD. The reason for this is the system will find the "devices" on this system and will probably want the Win98 cab files and until the correct drivers gets installed you probably will not have access to the CD-Rom, so when it asks for then just point it to the folder on the HD.
0
 

Expert Comment

by:MichalJ
ID: 8184955
Did you solved this issue:
<<jumper on cd rom was on slave although cmos sees it as secondary master.>>
If not your new system from different mobo wil crash/hang.
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