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win 2000 network can see network but network cant see me :(

Posted on 2003-03-16
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Ok we have 3 workgroups in a peer to peer network all win2k  one machine on the network has a fixed ip of 192.168.0.1  the rest pull ips from it

we added 3 machines 1 everything ok 2 not working

machine 2 can ping all machines on network but cant see them in network browser OR ping the HOST name untill i add it int he hosts file then i can connect ect ect

BUT none of the machines ont he netwrok can ping or see this machine

any ideas??
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Question by:stevenmoffat
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Expert Comment

by:dansoto
ID: 8146715
This may seem trivial you mentioned "we have 3 workgroups".  Did you mean 3 workstations? Big difference.

Let us know...

Dan Soto, MCSE
New Orleans, LA
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by:stevenmoffat
ID: 8147141
Hi dan

nope 3 workgroups totaling 13 computers/workstations

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Baddog earned 300 total points
ID: 8148062
When you say pulling IPs from the 192.168.0.1, you are referring that this machine is doing DHCP, no?


If so;
1. Make sure you have set up your scopes correctly and that there are enough IPs (192.168.0.1 excluded) for all the workstations. Make sure the scopes are activated.

2. Make sure each workstation is a DHCP client, in other words, be sure that you have configured each network adapters TCP/IP settings to obtain an IP automatically.

If you are using DNS, make sure it is set up for dynamic updates. And make sure the workstations point to this DNS server, otherwise, you can set up DHCP to provide DNS server information to the DHCP clients. Also, the DNS Server has to be set to look at its own address for DNS information (it will be a client of itself).

BDog
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by:stevenmoffat
ID: 8151936
oops 198.168.0.1 isnt runnig dhcp, and clients are not resolving their IP from dhcp,

event viewer shows DHCP warning computer not able to its address from dhcp server



________________

any ideas how to figure out how they are obtaining thier IP?
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by:stevenmoffat
ID: 8151944
this said ipconfig is showing the clients are all using 192.168.0.1 as their dhcp server and gateway

( note gateway working fine on all machines )
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Expert Comment

by:Baddog
ID: 8154760
If you go to command prompt and type "ipconfig/all" (no quotations) and  look at the IP addresses on each client, you should see something like 169.254.x.x.  This is called APIPA (Automatic IP Addressing) and each client will assign itself this number if it is set for automatic IP and does not find a DHCP server.


The problem here is that each client should see each other, but not the main server (192.168.0.1).

BDog
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Expert Comment

by:Baddog
ID: 8154878
If PCs are not receiving their IPs from the DHCP, are the PCs on the same physical segment? In other words, are there routers in between the main PC (192.168.0.1) and the workstations? If so, then we have a problem with the clients broadcasting their DHCPDISCOVER (trying to find a DHCP server). Some routers will filter out these broadcasts and therefore the client will never find the DHCP server.

Solution:
1. Configure the routers to route BOOTP broadcast frames.
2. Add a DHCP Relay Agent computer to the new routed segment.

Here is some good reading for you:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;197197
 
Let me know what setup you have and we can track this down. Also, IP resolving is done by DNS and not by DHCP. The DHCP server merely assigns IP address in the Scope.

Good Luck
BDog
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by:stevenmoffat
ID: 8157707
ok ive pconfig/all and /renew and all machines are picking up a proper IP 192.168.0.???  all amchines can see each other and network operating lovely....

except  192.168.0.100  it can ping the gateway and dhcp server that is reported to exist in the ipconfig/all, it can ping ALL the machines on the network BUT no machine on the network can see it or ping it.

Bdog your first set of instructions were the most helpfull but i set up a dhcp server on 192.168.0.1 but it failed miserably

all machines on network are reporting DHCP warnings stating they cant find the server, this im assuming is because there is no dhcp server on the netrwork, go figure

secondly there is no router, we have 13 machines in a peer-peer config, all win 200 pro except 1 win 98 machine, hp 16 port hub (hub only nothing else)

192.168.0.1 has a dsl modem which has a connection share on it and provides internet access to all machines

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by:stevenmoffat
ID: 8157719
I read that , thanks Bdog, but i dont seem to have a dhcp server running, and i never had a problem before so its not the scope settings on my dhcp server

no router on network so not that

2 dhcp servers????  cant even find one!

Steven

(i upped the points, thanks for the ideas,... anything else u can think of? )


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Expert Comment

by:Baddog
ID: 8168168
OK,,,here is waht you need to have your DHCP working:

Server Running DHCP Service:

Windows 2000 Server that is configured with the following:
The DHCP Service
A Static IP address (cant be a DHCP client), subnet mask, default gateway (if necessary), and other TCP/IP parameters
A DHCP Scope. A scope is a range of IP addresses that are available for lease or assignment to clients.


DHCP Clients:
Windows 2000, Windows NT Server Version 3.51 or later, WinNT Workstation version 3.51 or later.
Windows 95 or later.
Windows for Workgroups version 3.11 running MS TCP/IP-32.
Microsoft Network Client Version 3 for MS-DOS wit real-mode TCP/IP driver.
LAN Manager version 2.2c


Taking all these basic steps into consideration, we start with the DHCP server. There are two ways to run the DHCP service; standalone or Active Directory aurhorized.

In the StandAlone (which I am assuming you have) you have to install the DHCP Service, configure the Scope(with enough addresses to cover all the workstations), and activate the scope (making sure that the computer hosting the DHCP service is not a DHCP client, in other words, you have to provide a STATIC IP address). The IP on this computer has to be excluded from the IP range in the Scope.

With Active Directory (AD), the DHCP Server needs to be authorized by AD in order for it to function (protects network from rogue servers assigning incorrect IP addresses).

Knowing this, there are some questions we need to answer.
What is the IP address on the computer that is hosting the DHCP Service? You should know this.
What is the IP range that we inputted into the DHCP scope?
Did we exclude the Static address from the computer hosting the DHCP scope?
Is the Scope on the DHCP machine "activated"?

You mentioned you did an IP config/all and each computer is getting an address of 192.168.0.?  If this is so, then a DHCP service is running on the network segment. Else, it is taking this this IP from cache. You have to do a Ipconfig/release, then a Ipconfig/renew. If the computer (client) is setup for receiving automatic IP, then it should search for the DHCP server and obtain an IP from it.

You also mentioned a 192.168.0.100 machine. Is this the DHCP machine? If so, make sure you have inputted the correct TCP/IP parameters.

Tell me how you have your network setup. For example, my machines are setup with the main machine as 192.168.1.1 and the clients start at 192.168.1.5-to-192.168.1.75. I have left several IPs open (192.168.1.2-to-192.168.1.4) so I can add additional servers which in most cases require static IPS.

Here is some more info that can be helpful:

http://www.vicomsoft.com/knowledge/reference/dhcp1.html

BDog
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Expert Comment

by:Baddog
ID: 8168284
Last question,,,how many workstations on the entire network?


BDog
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by:stevenmoffat
ID: 8168515
last question first 13
all windows 2000 pro

i intend to install dhcp on 192.168.0.21 (hubert)

this is a windows 2000 pro machine, where can i get the dhcp server from?? will it run on pro?
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Expert Comment

by:Baddog
ID: 8169256
Oh,LOL, why did I not think of this before. You actually do not have a DHCP server, what you, in fact, have is one machine with Internet Connection Sharing (ICS) enabled. I am assuming that this is machine 192.168.0.1.  ICS will assign IP addresses in the 192.168.0.x range. This way all machines will communicate with each other and share the same Internet Connection.  I have used this before, but don´t really like it. More info for you here:

http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/ics_2000

I do my Internet Connection Sharing with a program called WinProxy.
 http://www.winproxy.com/english/home/hm_business_home_en.asp

You will need two NICs on the PC that provides this service, both proxy and ICS.

The second way is that I have an ADSL modem/router and I have basically configured the Internal Network Interface (private) with an IP of my local subnet. (192.168.x.x). Then I have all the machines use this as the default gateway. Works a charm as each machine access this router individually and do not rely on another machine hosting a proxy or ICS.

DHCP server can only be installed on a W2K Server machine. W2K Pro cannot host it, unfortunately.

I think we are pretty close to fixing this!!!!! Just make sure your ICS is properly configured, or use the proxy server.

Good Luck
BDog



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Expert Comment

by:Baddog
ID: 8169286
Here is some ICS info from Microsoft:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;307311


BDog
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by:Baddog
ID: 8169311
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by:stevenmoffat
ID: 8169396
Ok Mr BDog

I read both those articles and all my settings are correct

all machines can access email and websites including the machine that cant be seen on the network

this still dosent explain why this faulty node can ping machines on the network but the network cant ping it...

should i disable dhcp client on my network clients????? and this faultiy node???? hmm

and again thanks for your patience, i am in your debt.



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by:stevenmoffat
ID: 8169429
UGHHHH  horrible thought here

my win2000 pro only has a 10 user licence, we now have 13 nodes of which one is a print server, does this user license affect the number of connections to the ICS???


Steven
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Expert Comment

by:Baddog
ID: 8169724
It affects the number on concurrent connections to the machine, so I would have to say that it may be the contributing factor.
This is why, although, W2K Pro has IIS (Internet Information Service), it is not a good idea to use it as a Web Server, due to the 10-user limit. Dont know if this limitation applies to ICS, but I have the W2K white papers,,let me take a look and Ill give you a firm answer.
I have not delved deeply into ICS,,,,cause I dont like it.

The way to check it would be to turn off the machines.  Keep the ICS hosting machine on and turn on 10 machines (include the one that is giving you headaches). If they all work fine, the 10-user license is the problem. If not, then the problem machine has a bad parameter in TCP/IP settings (file and printer sharing not enabled, NetBIOS over TCP/IP not enabled,,,etc....) Or the NIC is wacky....receives but does not transmit.


BDog

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by:Baddog
ID: 8170220
I guess the 10-user limit is for inbound connections to the W2K Pro machine, so I guess ICS works the same way as IIS, and limit to 10.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;122920

What type of Internet Connection do you have?
I would lean toward an ADSL router type, capable of multiple connections. I would set the Internal Network Interface IP on the router to an IP on the local network (the Public or Internet IP should be preconfigured) and this will allow all the clients to use this IP as the Default Gateway. Use a crossover patch cable and connect it via hub/switch and you have a routed network to the Internet.
 
BDog
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by:stevenmoffat
ID: 8172289
we got a USB dsl modem

the NIC on the faultyt machine is onboard , but i got a few pci nic's i can pop in there just to check it

Ive had all 13 machines usin the ICS so it aint that

gawd if all this is over a fauly NIC i owe u a bottle of vino, ill put a new one in it today and swich of the onboard

let u know the result ASAP

Steven
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by:stevenmoffat
ID: 8183433
GAWDDDDDDDDDDDDDD


you are never going to belive this , i resolved it and it was summit we never even thought about

New machines have the lates PC-Cillin on them, included in the packages is a personal firewall ,

all i had to do was add the local network ip range to the allowed list and hooo haaa everything works :)

freakin software updates huh? go figure n watch out for this one yourself, the reall give away is if u can ping from it but cant ping it

thanks for all
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by:stevenmoffat
ID: 8183444
Thanks again for sounding ideas off, take em u rearned them

Steven
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Expert Comment

by:Baddog
ID: 8183872
Proper!!!,,,,sometimes the simple things bite you in the rear.  Anyways, youve got it right, these firewalls can get you.

Thnx for the input.



BDog
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