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After install Win95, why insufficient mem to load Netware 3.2 server?

Posted on 2003-03-21
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I operate a network with a file server (Pentium II 350mhz PC boot up by MS-DOS 6.22 running Netware 3.2) with several workstations (hardware range from 486DX2-66 to Pentium III 600mhz, OS = Windows 95B to 98SE, Clients=Microsoft Netware client).

Due to lack of resources to do duplex or mirror, I decide to use one workstation to double as a server if main server is down.  I chose to use a Pentium II 350mhz with PnP feature, PC 64MB DRAM, 10GB Hdd partition to 2-2-5, 5GB will used by Netware 3.2 as server, installed boot up by MS-DOS 6.2, installed Netware 3.2 server software also with client software.  Tested as a client: ok.  Tested as a server: ok  Main server users info and data are all migrated to this spare server as backup.

When spare server is not activated, it is used as a workstation.  So I proceed to install Window 95 on it. Problem starts.  After installation, the set continues to work well as a workstation with Win95.  But when I restart in MS-DOS mode from Win95, to activate spare server.  Server.exe does not load.  Error message: "Insufficient memory to run NetWare 386 (requires at least 3 megabytes of extended memory)."  I have checked config.sys and autoexec.bat files, no memory manager program was loaded. Any solution?
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Question by:seeksq
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15 Comments
 
LVL 19

Expert Comment

by:deroode
ID: 8179889
Netware does *not* run on Windows DOS (MS-DOS 7 and up).

You'll have to make a dual boot with DOS 6.22.
I found a description on Experts Exchange:
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Win95_3x/Win95/Win95_Setup/Q_10089885.html

Good luck
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 8180810
seeksq,

deroode hit it right on the head. NetWare v3.2 is a rather old version of the OS, its not going to like running in what is essentially a Windoze DOS-box. Dual-boot is your best option.

Altho, I do have to make this point - NetWare is not Windoze NT or 2K. It doesn't "go down" short of hardware failure or gross mismanagement. NetWare v3.x servers with 6-12 months of continuous uptime are not uncommon where that version is still deployed.

I would suggest to you that you're going way overboard on your redundancy plan. If you were running a Windoze-based network, I could see it, but with NetWare, its an OS upon which you can rely.

Also, the Microsoft Client for NetWare stinks - a deliberate  ploy by Redmond. Get the real thing from Novell - its free.
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LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 8182312
deroode has it - Windows DOS 7 (Windows 95 and above) has some built-in memory managers that make it impossible to use real operating systems such as NetWare on the same machine.

You need to create a dual-boot system in individual partitions - one can be Windows 9x with their own DOS loader and the other should run MS-DOS 6.22 or earlier (or Novell DOS 7 or Caldera DR-DOS 7.x) with NetWare.

PsiCop is correct that NetWare 3.x servers "go down" - at least for software-related issues.  However, I think he is wrong about NetWare 3.x having 6-12 months of uptime...

everyone I've ever seen usually has 1 to 4 years of uptime ;)

also - hard drives are cheap (even SCSI) do yourself a favor and MIRROR the damn servers NetWare partitions.  It's cheaper in the long run.
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 8182686
Well, I was being conservative about NetWare v3.x uptime.

And he's also right about mirroring - drives are cheap, and as long as you've got a similar machine, you can usually take a mirrored drive over to a similar box and bring it up - NetWare is generally indifferent to the hardware it runs on.
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LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:alewisa
ID: 8193804
IMHO Netware is oblivious to the hardware! I've removed drives from 486 based servers, stuffed them into PIII, and the only complaints have been when some cards are missing (so the drivers don't load as they cant find the card). But Netware itself just keeps going... Lovely product.

Hardware mirror the drives.
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LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 8196667
alewisa,

hardware mirroring would require a RAID controller that supports RAID-1, seeksq is obviously running on a limited budget, his/her best bet is to add a similar capacity drive and let NetWare mirror (software) the drives.

however, it's recommended that the new drive also get a DOS partition placed on it (this will have to be done manually) and then copy the data from the DOS-boot partition on the first drive to the DOS partition on the new drive.

This is because NetWare mirrors only the NetWare partitions.

0
 

Author Comment

by:seeksq
ID: 8215236
Thank you everybody for your prompt responses.

The funny thing is I have done it before few years ago and it worked.  I used a PI 100mhz, 24Mb RAM system, with 2Gb Hdd partition to 1.5Gb for win95 and 0.5gb for netware 3.2 server. After using as workstation under win95, I can log out the client, from start button select shut down select restart in MS-DOS mode, I can load up Netware 3.2 server with no memory problem.  There is no need for cold reboot then F8 choice 6 to command prompt.  This set is still working but too slow.  My present exercise is to replace it with a PII.

I posted the question with the hope of getting quick solutions without having to crack my brain to recall what I have missed out this time around or to waste time in repeated trial and error installations.  Give me some time to try out your various suggestions before I award someone the points.

I suspect it has something to do with the files "suhdlog.dat" and "system.1st" which existed in the PI but not in the root directory of PII.
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LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 8219122
grab a MS-DOS 6.x boot disk (or a Novell DOS 7 or Caldera DR-DOS 7.x boot disk) with SYS on it - boot from that disk.

switch over to your "DOS" partition where you want to boot for NetWare.

Execute a SYS on that partition to replace the Windows 9x boot files with DOS boot files.
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LVL 4

Expert Comment

by:pwoolford
ID: 8231646
I used to have a PC booting to either Windows 95, NT workstation or NetWare 4.11.  I installed DOS 6.? then 95 then NT and finally NetWare..  I have all the partitions except the Netware Volume set as FAT.  I all worked fine.
Maybe it is just the order you have installed everything.
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LVL 19

Expert Comment

by:deroode
ID: 8236757
Come to think of it:

It isn't neccesary at all to make a dual boot machine. Just boot from a DOS 6.x floppy disk only in case of emergency, when you need the spare netware server. Otherwise boot win95.

The most probable cause that it did work before was that you installed the retail version of Win95. That gave you an opportunity in your F5 bootmenu to start a "previous version of MS-DOS"...
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LVL 1

Accepted Solution

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JWolhuter earned 100 total points
ID: 8260725
If you really want to go deep into the boot sequence:

It probably has to do with the BOOTSTRAP identification.  This is why if you install OS's in some order it works and if you install the same OS's in another order it doesn't.  Also try pressing F8 and selecting MS-DOS prompt (with prompting).  During the prompt process it will ask you for a number of processes that will start.  DO NOT EXECUTE ANY.  After this you should be able to start the server executable.

Also make sure that the partition is FAT16 and not FAT32...
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Author Comment

by:seeksq
ID: 8299073
DSPoole,

How to go about doing "a dual-boot system in individual partitions - one can be Windows 9x with their own DOS loader and the other should run MS-DOS 6.22 or earlier"?  Can this be done without 3rd party software like Partition Magic?

I tried but not sure if it is what you suggested.  I installed MS-DOS6.2 on drive C, then installed Win95 on drive D.  Win95 automatically overwrite the boot loader at drive C but place Windows 95 system files in drive D.  I can no longer boot up DOS6.2 from drive C but always to Win95.  I press F8 then select Choice 8: "Previous MS-DOS version", it allowed me to start DOS6.2 for just one session then after off system and restart another time, the system hang after memory count.  This was due to the bug in Win95 OSR2.  After this bug was fixed. I can choose DOS6.2 by pressing F4 or F8 before Win95 startup, start my Netware server and then still able to restart to Win95.  Is this consider dual-boot system?  If so, this can work also work without separate partitions for DOS and Win95.

deroode,

It is too troublesome and unreliable to boot DOS with diskette.  On my previous setup, I did not use F4 or F8 to access previous DOS version.  Instead I boot to Win95 to use set as workstation then after logout and at shut down menu, select "restart in MS-DOS mode", I used Win95 version of DOS to start Netware server with no problem.
0
 

Author Comment

by:seeksq
ID: 8299083
DSPoole,

How to go about doing "a dual-boot system in individual partitions - one can be Windows 9x with their own DOS loader and the other should run MS-DOS 6.22 or earlier"?  Can this be done without 3rd party software like Partition Magic?

I tried but not sure if it is what you suggested.  I installed MS-DOS6.2 on drive C, then installed Win95 on drive D.  Win95 automatically overwrite the boot loader at drive C but place Windows 95 system files in drive D.  I can no longer boot up DOS6.2 from drive C but always to Win95.  I press F8 then select Choice 8: "Previous MS-DOS version", it allowed me to start DOS6.2 for just one session then after off system and restart another time, the system hang after memory count.  This was due to the bug in Win95 OSR2.  After this bug was fixed. I can choose DOS6.2 by pressing F4 or F8 before Win95 startup, start my Netware server and then still able to restart to Win95.  Is this consider dual-boot system?  If so, this can work also work without separate partitions for DOS and Win95.

deroode,

It is too troublesome and unreliable to boot DOS with diskette.  On my previous setup, I did not use F4 or F8 to access previous DOS version.  Instead I boot to Win95 to use set as workstation then after logout and at shut down menu, select "restart in MS-DOS mode", I used Win95 version of DOS to start Netware server with no problem.
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LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 8301848
Partition Magic is your best bet.  I use it to dual boot Caldera OpenLinux and Microsoft Windows 95 on a single box.

0
 

Author Comment

by:seeksq
ID: 8460052
I decide to give the points to JWolhuter.  Although not quite the answer to what I sought to do but it is the closest I can get.  By using F8 and selecting MS-DOS prompt step-by-step I can sidestep the loading of Himem.sys which is causing my problem.  Subsequently I can load Netware 3.12 server from Win95-DOS without having to fall back on previous DOS version or use of diskette boot-up. (It is a hassle to use diskette!)
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