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Home network 2 PCs can't see each other.

Posted on 2003-03-25
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Last Modified: 2010-03-19
Hi,

I have to win2k(pro) machines.  Both setup via hub.  Both can see the internet (via attbi cable service and DHCP).  Neither can see each other.  I don't know where to start and ATTbi support was no help.
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Question by:nrsteffes
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32 Comments
 
LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:arbert
ID: 8207550
Do they both belong to the same workgroup?  Do they both use DHCP to get an IP Address?  Are they on the same subnet?

Brett
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LVL 41

Accepted Solution

by:
stevenlewis earned 100 total points
ID: 8207571
You can try adding NetBEUI to both mahcines, may or may not work
teh problem is you are using a hub, and therefore getting two ip's from your isp
most ISP's filter to prevent access of your machines from others on the network your neighbors, etc)
my suggestion would be get a router (that is what they are designed for)
then you could use private ip's for your LAN, and use one public ip (for the router WAN interface)
or get a second NIC for one of the mahcines, and use ICS to share the connection
the setup would be like this
modem -->NIC1 <machine1> NIC2-->hub-->machine2
more info
see here

www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/sharing.htm

http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/ics


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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:arbert
ID: 8207639
Don't add NetBEUI--it's a bad protocol, and Microsoft doesn't even support it in XP any more....

brett
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LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 8207672
Huh? It is a valid protocol. a bit chatty, but on a two machine network, hardly an issue. and It can be installed on XP
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q301/0/41.asp
M$ is trying to move away from it, true, but still has it's uses
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:arbert
ID: 8207746
Sorry, it did say that it was unsupported by microsoft....
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LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 8207773
unsupported Yes, but still can be installed and used (mostly for backwards comptability)
I have seen NetBEUI work in this type of situation. I still recommend a router over any other solution (including NetBEUI), but if the questioner wants to continue to use the hub, NetBEUI may be the only solution (and it may not work)
w95 is now unsupported, as is dos, and w98 will soon be :~)
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Expert Comment

by:bryanbel
ID: 8208743
Try to connect both PC using Cross Configured Cable.  So your PC1 eth would directly connect to PC2 eth, with out any use of a hub.

for details how to make UTP Cross Cable refer to
http://www.imel1.kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp/members/kameda/lecture/utp/index-e.html 

MODEM -> PC1 -> PC2

use ICS for Internet connection sharing. Refer to this site for configuration http://pwp.netcabo.pt/0162545402/lan.htm

if you are using your eth card to connect to the internet then install a second eth card on the Pc which connects to the internet.  So one pc would have two ip addresses, one used to connected to the internet (public ip) and the other used to connect to other pc (private ip).

Hope this helps.
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LVL 4

Expert Comment

by:bistrica
ID: 8208802
I asked same question for NT4/Win2K.
If you review link:
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Networking/Q_20517639.html
you will find steps to set Win2K machine.
Good luck, this should work.
0
 

Author Comment

by:nrsteffes
ID: 8220680
To address Albert's questions:

Yes, they are both on the same workgroup. And, Yes, they do use DHCP to obtain the IP address.   But as far as subnet...  How can I tell?  Forgive my ignorance.

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LVL 4

Expert Comment

by:bistrica
ID: 8223230
You don't need DHCP. Set addresses manually.
PC1: 100.100.100.50
PC1: 100.100.100.50
Subnet on PC1 and PC2: 255.250.0.0

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LVL 4

Expert Comment

by:bistrica
ID: 8223237
After setting addresses try ipconfig (to verify settings)and ping (to "hit" another computer).

If they are in the same workgroup that should be all.
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LVL 34

Assisted Solution

by:arbert
arbert earned 100 total points
ID: 8225536
YES, bistrica, if he wants to access the internet through his cable modem and he only has one Ethernet card in each computer, he DOES need to use DHCP.....

nrestefes, if you run IPCONFIG from the DOS command on each machine, you'll see the IP Addresses--each should have about the same 3groups of numbers with the last being different.

If you click the STart button and choose Run and type in \\othermachine'sIPAddress\c$ does it prompt you for a user/password?   (change othermachine'sIPAddress to the IP Address of the machine you're NOT typing on).

Also, from a dos prompt, if you type PING othermachine'sIPAddress, what do you get?

Brett
0
 

Author Comment

by:nrsteffes
ID: 8226126
Albert,  

The IP address', subnet's, and default gateway's on both machines are NOT at all alike.   I don't know if it's wise to post my IP address information or not.  So, if numbers were letters, it would look like this...  

with PC1s IP as A.B.C.D then PC2 would be A.X.Y.Z
subnet for PC1 as 255.255.252.0 and PC2 as 255.255.255.0
and, gateway PC1 as A.B.C.1 and PC2 as A.X.Y.1

So, if I'm understanding this,  does A.B.C.xx have to be the same on both pcs (of course with xx being unique)?
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:arbert
ID: 8226178
Are both of these setup to use DHCP--I wouldn't expect the information to be that different.

Like, stevenlewis , stated above, if your
cable provider limits you 2one IP Address and you're using a HUB, only one of your machines will be able to obtain an ip address.

On both machines, from a dos prompt type

IPCONFIG /RELEASE

and then

IPCONFIG /RENEW


Does either machine get an error trying to renew an address?

Brett
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 8230281
Again, get a router (dlink and linksys make good ones for about $50 US)
you will then be able to access the net from both machines, and have them be in the same network (private LAN)
your isp will give the router WAN interface an ip
that is what these products are designed to do
or get a second NIC for one of the machines, and setup ICS
as I pointed out in my earlier post
Your hub is basically just a repeater, and can not give you the capablilties you need
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:arbert
ID: 8231411
I disagree on the hub statement--depends on the provider and the setup of the provider.  We ran using a hub and 4workstations before we upgraded to a router.....
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LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 8231853
>We ran using a hub and 4workstations before we upgraded to a router
why did you upgrade to the router, if the setup worked?
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:arbert
ID: 8231913
I didn't say it was an idea setup now did I????  I have servers that need to be isolated from one another--that's why I went with the router....Connecting 2home PCs for the sake of sharing files can easily be supported by a hub if the provider allows it.....
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LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 8231981
I stick with my original statement. A hub is not designed for what the questioner is trying to do. A hub is just a repeater, and is designed to connect a simple LAN.
There is a way to do this with a hub, but it involves using a proxy server (on one machine) and pointing the other machine to use this proxy, but  this gets complicated.
2 NICs and ICS or a router is the best solution (and in fact, since it is apparent that the ISP does not "allow this") is the only way to go
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:arbert
ID: 8232181
nrsteffes, here is a page directly on ATTs website as well:

http://help.broadband.att.com/faq.jsp?content_id=97&category_id=11


There is also a lot of other good information out there dealing with the customer agreement and what it means to have multiple PCs on their network.  The statement that stevenlewis made earlier "(and in fact, since it is apparent that the ISP does not "allow this")"  is not correct according to ATTs information as well. You might not be paying to obtain additional IPs through your hub, but your ISP does support this (sure you wouldn't have to pay for extra IPs with a router since you would have your own internal network, but your hub is supported).

Brett
0
 
LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 8232243
Sure supported for net access, but it says nothing about being able to share files and folders between the two
Of course, you can use a hub to connect two machines (if you get two ip's)
but then to see the machines in network neighborhood (and share files and folders)
If this was allowed, you would see all the other machines connected to the same network (the neighbors, the kid down the street, etc)
what a security nightmare that would be!
nrsteffes can already access the net from either machine
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:arbert
ID: 8711569
nrsteffes, what's up with this question?
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Expert Comment

by:CleanupPing
ID: 9152888
nrsteffes:
This old question needs to be finalized -- accept an answer, split points, or get a refund.  For information on your options, please click here-> http:/help/closing.jsp#1 
EXPERTS:
Post your closing recommendations!  No comment means you don't care.
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LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:juliancrawford
ID: 10088656
No comment has been added lately, so it's time to clean up this TA.
I will leave the following recommendation for this question in the Cleanup topic area:

Accept: stevenlewis {http:#8207571}

Please leave any comments here within the next seven days.
PLEASE DO NOT ACCEPT THIS COMMENT AS AN ANSWER!

Julian Crawford
EE Cleanup Volunteer
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:arbert
ID: 10091544
Don't agree.....I think at the least, a split is in order.........
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LVL 41

Expert Comment

by:stevenlewis
ID: 10091615
OK, by me, (I don't care about the points)
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:arbert
ID: 10091692
cool, just PAQ and NO REFUND then.....
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LVL 5

Expert Comment

by:juliancrawford
ID: 10093682
Looks like a valid request by arbert for a split - Moderator will be along soon to make a final decision :)
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:arbert
ID: 10141114
So why even ask for comments????
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