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...:::::: PHP or ASP. NET ::::::...

Posted on 2003-03-30
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Hi folks,

I am a PHP programmer and I like so much this language.
But, with ASP .NET, i am testing to see what is better.
What is your opinion about: Do you still with PHP or will go to ASP .NET?

I don´t know if the next question is TECHNICAL CORRECT but:

Will be created a "PHP .NET"?

See you ...
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Question by:joelsilva
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15 Comments
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:Kriek
ID: 8236263
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LVL 15

Expert Comment

by:VGR
ID: 8236945
forget about ASP (even ASP.Net) : it's basicallay a Visual Basic Script dialect ;-)

No comparison possible with PHP, Delphi .Net (may be used as scripting language :D ) or even java
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LVL 4

Expert Comment

by:bljak
ID: 8237386
Totally agree with VGR, well, might be on other hand that i am c/c++ like forever, but i've never seen php crashing a comp (not even a windows), unlike asp

//bljak
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by:tirdun
ID: 8238384
The whole .NET framework is (IMHO) an attempt by Microsoft to bring programming to the masses. I'll not comment on wheter or not this is a good idea or how well its been executed.

I evaluated a C+.NET or C#.NET solution to a web development project w/ MSSQL 2000 versus a PHP approach. The SQL server was not flexible, so I decided to look at an all MS system. In all honesty, my original introduction to PHP came after working in a Perl/Linux environment. The transition to PHP was super-smooth, so I admit a bias P going into the evaluation. BUT I'm happy to be lazy, so if .NET could make my life easer, I could try to bend my C knowledge into the MS worldview.

Although .NET will certainly simplify some of your form validation, layout and connection work, it will do so on a MS server the .NET WAY, note the all caps because deviation from the .NET WAY will be punnished by the .NET gods who lurk on mount microsoft and hurl lightning at heretics and infidels. Each of my attempts to do things my way/the customer's way was met with resistance. Plus .NET has some very... curious ideas about doing all sorts of things FOR YOU. So help you if you want to know what's going on behind the curtain, because .NET will inform you not to worry your pretty head about it.

So: PHP->Do it your way from the ground up.
.NET->Have microsoft hold your hand. Firmly. With regular and firm guidance to use their methods.

I like to build things my way, I like to know what's doing what and why, and I really like having the wealth of PHP knowledge that's out there. Every bump I've hit has been smoothed by simple searches of the PHP Help manual or hitting PHP web sites like this one. I have, on several occations, written an object or function only to find out that PHP has a build-in feature that does it better.
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Expert Comment

by:lexxwern
ID: 8238654
Well, as a coder you must be conversant in both. Use which ever the client wants you to use. If he gives you a choice then use which ever you feel comfortable in.
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Expert Comment

by:waygood
ID: 8238676
I agree with everyone so far, but I am looking to get out of my job and into a new one. The problem I am facing is I cannot find any jobs in my area +50 miles, they all seem to be ASP jobs.

You can take this in 2 ways:
1. ASP is really popular in industry and worth leaning to get a more competative salary, or change to a company that will cos there are so many.
2. ASP is so crap that people dont stay in the jobs for very long and so a lot of positions are always advertised.

I advise looking at the rates people are paying for both.

P.S.
I am still surprised how much you can earn as a COBOL programmer.
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Author Comment

by:joelsilva
ID: 8239125
...::: VGR :::...

Do you mean that ASP .NET is similar to VBScript?

You said that there is no comparision of ASP .NET with PHP. So, who will be the language to compare with ASP .NET?

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Author Comment

by:joelsilva
ID: 8239165
...::: tirdun :::...

Thanks by your answer.
Will you use C#? Don´t you prefer DELPHI 7 (a previw of DELPHI .NET)?

What language do you think that could be compared with ASP .NET? Is there any?
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Author Comment

by:joelsilva
ID: 8239211
...::: waygood :::...

Thanks for your comments too.

I am really surprised too how many people i have found that use COBOL and are earning very well. I can´t comprehend it so much, but ...

Well, related to ASP, at least here in Brazil, there is a research in a big HOST PROVIDER, and 80% percent of the sites hosted use ASP. Other 20% use PHP.

I talked with a guy that work in this company, and he told me that people find PHP more difficulty. He said that many programmers just COPY and PASTE many ASP SCRIPTS.

Well, in my opinion, i think that PHP is easier that ASP. Of course is much powerful and better. I think too that many programmers believe that OPEN SOURCE languages (as PHP, MySQL), are not so good.

At last, i think that many programmers use ASP because MICROSOFT is behind it, and that, the MEDIA and PUBLICITY, etc...

With ASP .NET, many things will change.
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LVL 15

Expert Comment

by:VGR
ID: 8240056
@joelsilva

I don't invent anything. The language behind ASP (active server pages) IS VBScript
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Author Comment

by:joelsilva
ID: 8240130
VGR

I know that, but what language will be compared with ASP .NET?
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LVL 15

Expert Comment

by:VGR
ID: 8240851
C#, PHP, Delphi
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Author Comment

by:joelsilva
ID: 8240900
VGR

I don´t think so... You can even compare VB .NET to C# or DELPHI .NET. But, you cannot compare ASP .NET with VB .NET; they are totally different.
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Accepted Solution

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jmvoodoo earned 80 total points
ID: 9639230
While the language behind asp is vbscript, ASP .NET is very different from ASP.  The .NET initiative is huge and as a result very difficult to understand and describe fully,  it includes a development environment, an operating system, a webserver, a language framework, and a CLR (in the java world they call this a virtual machine).  Now, with .NET you can run your virtual machine in a sandbox (like a java applet) or outside of the sandbox (like a java application).  The biggest different between .NET and Java is that Java is a runtime and a language, whereas .NET is a runtime and a framework, it is not bound to a particular language.   I suppose it would be possible to write another language compiler that would still compile to Java bytecode, but that's another conversation entirely.

When you pose the question "should i use ASP .NET or PHP?" the answer could very well be "use both" as it is entirely possible to build a system that executes PHP code in an ASP.NET page (it's not trivial, but it is possible).  Now, at the company I'm currently at I write about 75-80% in PHP and the other 20-25% in ASP.NET (using C# and Visual Basic), and there are things that I like about both environments, and things that I hate.  So, I'll give you a list of pros & cons for each that are completely my opinion:

PHP Pros:
- Reliable
- Fast
- Easy to develop with, especially for smaller projects
- Great support from the community

PHP Cons:
- Segmented, for any particular "premade" class or solution, you generally have more than 100 options.  While this can be nice, it can also be irritating, since often times a class you depend on will one day vanish or the developer will lose interest.  One exception to this appears to be PEAR, though it looks like some PEAR projects are now suffering the same fate.
- No good IDE.  Zend Studio 3.0 looks promising, but pre 3.0 versions have not lived up to expectations.
- Lack of namespace support and a good development framework make large applications difficult to manage (my app is currently 30,000+ lines and growing, trust me it's a pain)
- Lack of OO concepts such as interfaces and exceptions.  This is "fixed" in PHP5, but from what I can tell their first implementation is going to be somewhat flawed, probably decent by PHP 5.2.

ASP.NET Pros:
- Fast
- Good IDE (Visual Studio is really damn cool, face it)
- Solid OO design concept implementation in VB.NET and C#
- The .NET framework is really, really cool.  This is probably the best thing that Microsoft has ever come up with honestly.

ASP.NET Cons:
- Spotty documentation. Some things just aren't documented, and even the "experts" haven't the foggiest clue how to use them.
- Community is pay-to-play.  If the functionality isn't in the framework, expect to either pay for it or develop it yourself, there ain't gonna be a free download for ya here buddy.
- Still in it's early phases.  The .NET framework 1.1 fixes a lot of problems, but a lot of problems still remain.  trying to solve what would be a simple problem in PHP can be a daunting task in ASP.  Just try streaming a 500MB file via HTTP on IIS... good luck.
- Security.  No one but Microsoft fully understands what's going on under the hood.  While to some this is a minor inconvenience, to banks & other security critical industries this is a huge problem, especially in light of Blaster and Slammer attacks of late.  .NET could be very secure, or not, you don't know for sure, and chances are NOT :)

Now, each camp is working very hard to fix the problems that they know they have, and I'm sure that both sides will do a fairly good job at fixing their problems as they have in the past.  What it comes down to is what problem do you need to solve?  What are your design constraints?  What components, if any, have already been developed/deployed?

Lastly, LEARN WEB SERVICES.  When you have a clear grasp of SOAP, WSDL, and interop issues you will breeze through projects because you can look at PHP, ASP, Python, and Java as just some of the tools in your developer's belt, and you can start using the technologies available to you for what they're best at rather than trying to constantly shove your square peg through circular, octagonal, and triangular holes :)   Learn as many languages as you can, and keep an open mind.  If you decide that one language is the best and decide to only learn that language, you'll do fine, but you won't have nearly as much fun as those of us who have diversified and can develop in just about any language they're given.

Personally, I still love PHP and can't wait for PHP5, but now that .NET is here I don't think that any programmer can or should ignore it, it's a powerful framework and can make at least part of your life easier.  When used properly, it can be a huge competitive advantage for both the freelance developer and the multibillion dollar corporate gorilla.

Hope this helps,

-Javier


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Expert Comment

by:jdav3579
ID: 14089959
I love PHP, but all the Jobs seem to be in ASP.NET and the whole .NET framework. Its a nightmare!  The Microsoft takeover of the world of computing rolls on at impressive speed!
I hate the way that (as in one of the previous comments) the whole visual studio thing just takes over and does all the coding for you and tells you "not to worry your pretty head about it!" (ref. tirdun).
Keep with PHP!!!
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