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difference between token-Ring and Arcnet

Posted on 2003-10-30
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hi all
can anyone tell the difference between tokein-Ring and Acrnet topologies.
i know both are token passing topologies
 
but how they differ and which one is efficient

thanks in advance
sagar
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Question by:sagar24
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PsiCop earned 50 total points
ID: 9651062
*laugh* God, I haven't thought about ArcNet in years.

ArcNet is much slower than Token-Ring. ArcNet operates at 2.5 Mbs, which Token-Ring is generally with 4 Mbs or 16 Mbs (there are 32 Mbs and 100 Mbs variants).

ArcNet is limited to 255 nodes per segment. IN THEORY, Token-Ring is limited only by the size of the MAC address in nodes per segment, altho in practice a flat (unswitched) T-R network doesn't scale any better than ArcNet.

I don't recall ever seeing any switches for ArcNet - it was always a flat environment. T-R has switches (very expensive ones as I recall).

ArcNet went over co-axial cables - RG-6, I think, but its been so long I may be confused. T-R used either Type-1 STP or Cat 3/5 UPT cabling.

Overall, I found T-R to be more efficient than ArcNet. I had to manually (using DIP switches) set the addresses of my ArcNet nodes.  It was a pleasure not to have to do that with my T-R nodes.
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by:ShineOn
ID: 9652660
ARCnet was over Rg-62, same as IBM SNA controllers.  AFAIK, it was developed to take advantage of the large installed base of RG62 coax already in place.  It had the potential to do much better speeds than it ever did, but it never really took off.
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by:ShineOn
ID: 9652669
If you are trying to decide on a network topology, don't use either.  Ethernet has won the battle.
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by:PsiCop
ID: 9652731
Oh, I dunno. If you have a need of a time-sensitive network, where nodes are *guaranteed* the opportunity to use the network and can't be starved out, Token-Ring still has a place. Token-Ring still handles very heavy loads with more aplomb than Ethernet. My point being that Ethernet is still not a "one size fits all" topology and there are still instances where a different topology may be the better choice.

But for most run-of-the-mill applications, Ethernet is generally the most cost-effective choice.
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by:SteveJ
ID: 9653142
I had more problems with TR network beaconing causing entire networks to fail than all other ethernet network problems combined. The only places I ever found people who were totally happy with Token Ring were IBM mainframe shops where they were used to paying more for everything  . . . paying $400 for a Token Ring NIC a few years back was nothing. And when IBM began marketing FEP line cards and Controllers with Token Ring connectors to attempt to pump up the Token Ring market there were plenty of buyers. But these days . . . why bother?

And . . . if you are starving out a machine on a switched gigabit ethernet network, you've got a serious bandwith hog. And If I want time guaranteed, I'll take ATM with constant bit rate over Token Ring any day.

And I'd argue that Ethernet IS a one size fits all topology which is why it's so successful.

Good luck.
Steve
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by:PsiCop
ID: 9653177
Or "one size fits most", which I think it more accurate.

And sure, ATM with CBR is an alternative, altho ATM gear is as expensive an T-R once was.

Yes, T-R NICs and related gear used to be outrageously expensive. Back in the '93/'94 timeframe I was paying $450/NIC and hating it and wishing for Ethernet. I haven't looked, because I haven't touched T-R since '98, but I expect that NIC and related gear prices have dropped substantially. Which is not to say its as cost-effective as Ethernet, but neither is ATM.
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by:SteveJ
ID: 9653234
I haven't touched Token Ring since '97 and only then because I was working for a FRAD vendor that sold into IBM/PCM and AS/400 shops.

And you are correct, ATM is still not cheap.

Steve
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Author Comment

by:sagar24
ID: 9655223
hi Psicop
thanks for the answer ..
but canu yoy please this statement
 Token-Ring is limited only by the size of the MAC address in nodes per segment.
Idid not get this
rest all is fine
i have posted this question for theoritical reasons
just to have a idea of these two protocols
i appreciate you further explanation

Regards
Sagar
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by:PsiCop
ID: 9657555
Sagar,

MAC = Media Access Control

The MAC address is the (theoretically) guaranteed unique address of the NIC, and identifies it on the local network segment. ARP/RARP is used to translate between higher-level protocol (for example, TCP/IP) addresses and MAC addresses.

In theory, the only limit on the size of a Token-Ring network segment is that every adapter on the segment have a unique MAC. There are other practical limits having to do with wire length and token-rotation time and so forth.
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by:geoffryn
ID: 9658904
Actually, Thomas Conrad made  100mbs Arcnet equipment.
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by:PsiCop
ID: 9658962
I stated in my original message that there were 32 and 100 Mb/s variants of T-R.
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by:SteveJ
ID: 9658968
I'd forgotten about Thomas Conrad. They also made a 20-Mbit ethernet hub that required that their own NIC had to be used because they'd halved the "listen/wait" time after transmission in their CSMA/CD algo.

Steve
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by:PsiCop
ID: 9658984
Token-Ring is not a CSMA/CD technology. It is a token-passing scheme, there's no need to CD (Collision Detection) because there can never be (in theory) a collision.
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by:ShineOn
ID: 9659158
First, to sagar24:  Token-ring and Arcnet aren't protocols.  They are physical network technologies.  Protocols run on top of the physical network - higher up in the OSI stack.  Protocols are things like IPX/SPX, TCP/IP, NetBIOS/NetBEUI, Appletalk and SNA, to name a few.

Token ring is CSMA/CA.  Collision-Sense-Multiple-Access/Collision-Avoidance.

For a long time, it was presumed that CSMA/CA was superior to CSMA/CD because it did not cause retransmissions if a collision were detected.

Nowadays, with gigabit-plus bandwidth and wire-speed switching technology, collisions are not much of an issue.  Now the issue with Ethernet at those speeds is QOS prioritization, which gets the "guaranteed time" capability much closer to T-R and ATM than used to be.

The token-passing scenario, I believe, is still in effect in high-speed WAN connectivity in the persona of Sonet.  I think FDDI and CDDI have kind of fallen by the wayside in the wake of gigabit Ethernet.
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by:SteveJ
ID: 9660368
PsiCop . . . who are you directing your "Token Ring is not  . . . " comment to? If it was me, maybe you didn't read my comment closely enough, I said "they also made a 20-Mbit ethernet hub that required . . . "

Nobody else on this post said Token Ring was CSMA/CD.

It's Friday . . . and Im grouchy because I have to work tomorrow.

Steve
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by:BudDurland
ID: 9666006
IMHO, Arcnet died because the company that owned many of the key patents (DataPoint) charged exorbidant fees license the technology.  When ethernet started becoming popular (first  on coax, then on UTP), DataPoint developed SuperArcnet, which ran at 20Mbs, instead of the 2.5Mbs of regular Arcnet.  Unfortunately, DataPoint went crazy on pricing SuperArcnet -- a server adapter was $700, when NE2000's were selling for $125.  For many, faster is better, but cheaper is better yet.

Arcnet had many good points.  It scaled much better that Ethernet of the day (modern ethernet beats it only through raw bandwidth, I think).  You could have tremendous distance between nodes -- 2000 feet, as I recall.  And it seemed like ArcNet would run over wet string.  Less than perfect connectors didn't bother ArcNet, but I spent a lot of time tracking down the ONE ethernet coax connector that had one whisker of the outside braid out of place, taking the entire network down.

And Arcnet had a couple bad points too.  Having to set the ID of each card was a PITA.  Active hubs generally came in smallish port capacities; passive hubs were handy but sometimes flaky.  You could buy anybody's Arcnet NIC that you wanted, as long as you wanted SMC or Thomas Conrad.

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by:PsiCop
ID: 9670856
Steve, sorry if I misinterpreted your comment.

Bud's comments are a blast from the past. I'd forgotten about SuperArcNet...I was getting out of the ArcNet world about the time that was being announced.
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by:SteveJ
ID: 9671789
No big deal, like I said, I was touchy because I had just found out that I was going to be working on Saturday. Thanks for the apology . . . sorry I made you feel that it was necessary.

Steve
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Author Comment

by:sagar24
ID: 9676088
hi  ShineOn ..
Ethernet ,Arcnet,Token_ring these define both data-link and physical layer specifications...
ie Access method + hardware arrangement method...
I meant protocols to refer these two definitions.
Sorry if i am sounding confused..
You can clarify ...my networking fundamentals ..

PsiCop ..thanks for your clarification also
Guys you can also clear my networking fundamentals..
I am making myself clear with fundamentals

Regards
sagar24












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by:ShineOn
ID: 9676855
"protocols" as we think of "protocols" in the networking world are at layer 3 of the OSI stack.  TCP/IP, NetBEUI, IPX/SPX, SNA, Appletalk, etc. are at the protocol layer of the OSI stack, more or less (depends on the protocol... not all fit the exact OSI spec and some have crossovers into different layers.)

You can run IP on Ethernet or Token-ring which is the transportation level - physical/datalink.  IP doesn't care whether you're running on Token-ring, Ethernet or PPP over a modem, as long as an IP-protocol-based packet can be transmtted.

That's why I made the distinction between the topology technologies and "protocol."  
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by:sagar24
ID: 9684882
Hi ShineOn
Thanks for your clarification

Hello i have keep reading aabout how to configure routers
but since i dont have hands on experience on it i forget most of the things
can you guys
refer me some book aur site which will give different scenarios to configure

and different setups to keep me on track all the time

Regards and thanks in advance
Sagar
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by:ShineOn
ID: 9684929
It really depends on the router manufacturer and model.

If it's a Cisco router, there are a lot of good materials on Cisco's site for configuration and options.

You can also ask a question here.  From what I can tell, lrmoore could rewrite all of the Cisco protocol manuals from memory. ;)
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by:sagar24
ID: 9685262
Ya fine i will check the cisco's site

thanks
sagar
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