Impossible To Hide HTML Source?

Greeting to All Experts:

Refer this link :
http://news.com.com/2100-1038_3-1024234.html?tag=fd_lede2_hed#

-when you right click to view HTML source, you get Blank value at ALL. Could be done in any scripts to make it happend?
I know you all can right click and click select All and you all can see HTML source, but at least i would like to know
"How to make it disappear from the screen"??
Can anyone know how to do it?

-If this is the crazy questions or impossible questions, please give some advice about it. Maybe someone had some experience about this kind of questions or might had crazy solutions too. Waiting your advice/solutions here...Thanks

Appreciate for any helps.Thanks.

Regards
x_com
LVL 29
David H.H.LeeAsked:
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NetGrooveCommented:
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p_parthaCommented:
Hi
It's just whitespace , if u scroll down u see the source...


Partha
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NetGrooveCommented:
The html source of this page is "hidden" in the same maner :)
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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
Thanks for the answer, but still cant solve my problems. I just need to done similiar solutions. Could be done?
@NetGroove,
Ijust read it but your solutions still not explain how to do in technical way. Or i'm missing somethings about your comments?if yes, please pointed out the main points here. Could be offer some code here?Thanks.

@p_partha ,
i noticed it. But the questions still remain, any idea how to hide HTML source from user? It's this completely cant be done?
I'd seem in someway, forget already. But, i really seem this html page before.

If this is a crazy questions, but how come others web site can make it work ??? Could somebody give me the reason.??If this can be done, i would like to know how to achieve it.

Thanks a millions. Appreciate for any suggestions...

Regards
x_com
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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
@NetGroove ,
>>The html source of this page is "hidden" in the same maner :)
-not sure about this comments...Could be more details about it?Thanks.

Regards
x_com
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devicCommented:
is only one solution to hide source from user: don't send source ;)
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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
@devic ,
>>is only one solution to hide source from user: don't send source ;)
-how to do it? Can offer some simple sample how to do it?Thanks....

Regards
x_com
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NetGrooveCommented:
Sorry x_com, but this is really a crazy question.
There are several attempts, even by M$, to hide at least JavaScript code, but so far none of them worked really.
They hide the code from users like you who are astonished to see a blank page.
But from such user they have not to hide the source.
The real "thieves", like me, know how to read ANY source.
The reason is obvious: if my browser can read the source (and it has to), then I will get it too.

I was searching for a nice web site showing you all the methods in one place how to open any of the "locked" sources, legally, but at the moment I can not find it.
This proves that any of the tools out there hiding and protecting your html source are waste of money.

From my point of view: hide your business logic in server scripting if you have something to hide.

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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
@NetGroove ,
I'm know this is a crazy Question. But, why others web site can do it? This is the main questions there...hmmm...

>>This proves that any of the tools out there hiding and protecting your html source are waste of money.
How about this web site (get from ASP PAQ), this show that it is 100% unhackable. So, what's your comments about it?
http://www.vortex-webdesign.com/help/hidesource.htm

-i know hide the business logic is important. But, now i want to hide HTML source completely from user. Could this can be done?Thanks.

If somebody get some idea, hope you can give some advice/comments here.Thanks.
Regards
x_com
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jaysolomonCommented:
There is a way to hide your source

http://www.vortex-webdesign.com/help/hidesource.htm

It is 100% guranteed

*laughing*
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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
@jaysolomon,
i got this web site from your PAQ :-)
It's that anyway i can hide my HTML source COMPLETELY?OR i missing read somethings there?if yes, please guide me, Thanks.

Regards
x_com
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jaysolomonCommented:
No you can NOT hide source

the only way to hide it is not publish it at ALL

jAy
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NetGrooveCommented:
Now you are kidding. That is the site I was looking for! That site compiles all unhide techniques.
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devicCommented:
>>>-how to do it? Can offer some simple sample how to do it?Thanks....
i mean that you can not.

if you see, some page, that try to hide source, write in adrress bar:  

javascript:alert(document.body.parentNode.innerHTML)

;)

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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
@jaysolomon ,
not sure about this comments :
>>the only way to hide it is not publish it at ALL
-if i not publish it, how to run my page? maybe i missing read some comments there. Please copy n paste here to let me to know closely.Thanks.

@NetGroove
>>That site compiles all unhide techniques.
-what do you mean?

i'm sorry for this crazy questions. Maybe this questions had been asked many times in any place. But, the points is i'm still confusing how to do it - show blank source code on the screen. It's that any tricky solutions to overcome it?

Thanks for your time.

Regards
x_com
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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
@devic,
yeah, spot it. But, after write in address bar, does the HTML page still valid to run WITHOUT zero code?Confusing. Maybe more details from your explanations.

I'm not hunger for quick response.I just want someone put me in the right track - "why HTML source can be returned Blank value"???

Thanks a lot. This problems could be used in future for correct guidelines rather than asking a same crazy questions repeatly.

Regards
x_com
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VincentPugliaCommented:
>>how come others web site can make it work
no one makes it work.

let me explain it this way:  
a web server 'serves' the page to the 'client' browser and then goes away.  what you see is everything that is sent by the server.  even if you sign off the internet, you can look in your 'temporary internet folder' and look at the source there.  You cannot stop people from looking at your source -- unless:

1) you don't post a web page on the internet
2) you use invisible tags <invisible> html javascript code </invisible>
(see jay I remembered this time :)

don't waste your time and ours.  close this thread and get your points refunded.

Vinny
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NetGrooveCommented:
We are turning in circles.

Where is this page that shows all blank?

Don't tell me you mean this one:
http://news.com.com/2100-1038_3-1024234.html?tag=fd_lede2_hed#

Open page source of that page and scroll to the bottom.
As most pages that page also has this lines:

</body>
</html>

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VincentPugliaCommented:
of course if you are willing to pay all of us -- say $1,000 apiece....
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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
@VincentPuglia,
I think you'd put me in the right track. It's seem someone still can steal HTML source code.

@NetGroove,
Seriously, i'd come across with a web site without any source. But, i'm not remember correct path. Maybe someday i'll see it again.....

Ok, now seem all agree with "HTML sourcecode CANT be hide from USER". I'll let this thread open and close it next week see got any news idea from any other experts. If not, i'll close it any reward the points to everybody.

Thank for your valuable time. Hope this questions can be used for any references in futures.

Regards
x_com
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NetGrooveCommented:
I am cheaper :-)

Man, the only offere I got here was from a xxx webmaster. So I had to refuse his five hundred Euros :(

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VincentPugliaCommented:
Does this mean we're not getting a $1,000 each??? (:
Vinny
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NetGrooveCommented:
Ok x_com, I'll put a marker to bomb you if after one week this Q is still open.
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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
@VincentPuglia ,
-only can earn experts points from me in this thread only :-). Split points ....

@NetGroove
-sometime i forget to close due to some important task. simply send a remind in this thread and i'll come to it until next week .......

-I appreciate all the helps :-)
 have a nice day. Maybe need some fresh air outside there after read this crazy thread...:-)

Regards
x_com
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jaysolomonCommented:
do i not get any points for the best site on the net
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NetGrooveCommented:
Uhps, of course I was thinking only of an email bomb, like you got now all over this thread.

See you,
NetGroove

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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
@jaysolomon ,
-split points for everybody, dont worry.....

I'm still waiting some crazy expert there to answer if have any special idea....If that's really can be done, i think he/she will become the WINNER and allow to grab all the points here ...(but i'm think cant be done so far after read all the comments here). .... :-)

Regards
x_com
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devicCommented:
if come Nushi, he will advice you to do some Java Apllet solution ;)

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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
@devic ,
Nushi? A expert had solutions/idea about this problems? I'm willing to see any latest solutions from she/he.....
i'm still keep my last previous comments.

Regards
x_com
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devicCommented:
x_com, sorry, it's only joke.
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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
devic, :0
time to off now. Hope tomorrow had miracle happend in this thread...:-)

Regards
x_com
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sciwriterCommented:
Hi X_Com --

Just a one-time comment from an old friend, to help you see how people are trying to hide things --

This is an MS Internet Explorer-only hack -- they "fix" the key intercept MSIE uses to show the source.

On Netscape 7, and others, the source shows fine, but they are counting that 90% of people use MSIE.

There are ways to encrypt your web pages, where they can be decryptyed on the fly, but they are not worth using, too much overhead processing the decryption, and too much hassle for the user.

Bottom line -- if it shows as an html page, the source is visible, as long as browser developers allow it.  And if not, just open the file in Wordpad or Notepad, and there the full "source" is.  It's no "miracle",  as Notepad will always show the source of an html page, as will Wordpad, current to Win XP at least.

Cheerio -- take care my friend.
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jaysolomonCommented:
Why hello Stranger


Good to see ya drop in

Trick or Treat

Take Care
jAy
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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
Hi sciwriter !!! Long time no see my friend !

It indeed a miracle happend today, how's your life recently my friend?? ... :-)
Thanks for your valueable comments. After saw all the comments, i can guarantee it is IMPOSIBBLE to hide HTML source from user. That's my conclusion based on all the comments here...:-)
-but still i'll leave this thread open until miracle happen again in this thread before next week...... :-)

THANKS to everybody...
sciwriter,  glad to see you're back. This is a good news for everybody in JS area or even others TA.

Regards
x_com

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sybeCommented:
it's a funny business.
some sites even make you pay for their tool to hide source code.
a bit experienced developer hacks them without problems.

http://www.software-downloads.net/internet/online_privacy/text_guard.asp
http://weblock.empowerprime.com/hide-source-code.htm
http://www.pleaseprotect.com/

The whole point of hiding source code is irrelavant.
Those who can't decrypt it, aren't interested in source code anyway
Those who are interested, are also able to decrypt it.

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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
@sybe
-Thanks :-) I'll take sometime to look all the links... Thanks.
 I'll make it PAQ as soon as i got all the exact answer ....Thanks....

Regards
x_com
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ofekeCommented:
Well - I agree with all that the source can not be hidden but here are some small ways of avoiding some 12 years old lamers.

1: encrypt it. there are many ascii manipulation making the source available but unreadable.

2: use "oncontextmenu" to avoid right click and put your page within a frameset. (you can't see the source though you can always save the page and browse your files in your free time)

3: use javascript import within your page and "document.write" the whole thing. (you can view the source and download the js though)

4: combine everything above to make our life harder - but still - don't count on 100% security...

I hope you'll live with that ;)
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sciwriterCommented:
X-Com --

Nice to get such a warm response from an old friend.  If you have a page you really need to try to make "as difficult to debug as possible", send it to me, and I can rig it so it will be difficult for most people to figure out the source code.  It can't be made impossible to decipher, but one can turn off about 90% of people who might interested.  There are ways many people don't know about.

See my profile for an email to send the page.  I will work on it as I have time.  Am busy, but you get first priority!  Points are irrelevant in helping an old friend.

Cheers

Sciwriter
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VincentPugliaCommented:
sciwriter:  

  I have no doubt you can make it difficult for newbies to view the source.  For that matter I have no doubt most people who frequent these pages could do the same.  The point, however, is that source protection cannot be done.  Also, it will make the page tiresome to debug for others (such as ourselves).  On many an occasion, I have refused to help an individual debug his code until s/he removed the norightclick scripts & assorted other junk -- not because I couldn't crack, but because I don't like having my time wasted -- and hitting extra keys or downloading files is wasting time.  Also, such code slows load time.  Finally, there is nothing anyone who is hiding javascript code has written that is worth hiding -- except perhaps the code they stole and didn't credit.

  So, do us all a favor and don't perpetuate garbage

Vinny
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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
@ofeke ,
pretty good comments too...I should try it...hmmm

@sciwriter ,
I just curious to know "100% hide HTML source from user". This questions is not related with my project, but just a curious problems. I know you're busy now, so wouldn't tend to disturb you. If i found some questions which more complex, i'll let you know :-) Thanks for your comments here.

@VincentPuglia ,
EE is the place to figure out the strange/crazy/best/amazing..etc solutions(my opinion only because all the inputs come from experts from various nations). I know this quesitons maybe sound stupid for you, but not for me because after i search all the info from EE knowledge based, none of the real solutions found. That's why this questions maybe important to be a good reference in the future.

This month i also will be busy at all. So, i'll make this thread as PAQ this week. I'm still willing to see any news idea for any experts.

Regards
x_com
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VincentPugliaCommented:
x_com:  The only thing I learn through 'hide source' code is how to access the right button click.  This subject is one that is asked or thought about by every newbie to the net.  It is similar to the following questions -- Is there life after death? Is there a God? -- in that everyone wants to know, but dissimilar in that the latter 2 questions have no answer that can satisfy everyone. This question, however, does -- it cannot be done.

Vinny
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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
To all experts here :
Sorry for my delay because busy around with my projects.

VincentPuglia ,
Thanks for your advices.
After review all the comments, finally i know that it's impossible to hide HTML source. The best way is to encrypt it.
Thanks to all! I split the points to all.
Thanks!!!

Regards
x_com
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sciwriterCommented:
Hi X_com --

Thanks for points, but as with many EE questions, the truth is clouded by needlessy demeaning comments from people with a narrow, limited perspectives -- a good example of why I don't waste much time on EE anymore is right in your thread --

>> " So, do us all a favor and don't perpetuate garbage,  Vinny" <<

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with wanting to protect one's intellectual property, especially with code, images, videos, and new web methods.  It is a total oversight of HTML and JS design that a person cannot protect his intellectual property.  Your question and desire is not only 100% VALID, but it is so pivotal to web pages that it crops up thousands of times each day with people designing pages -- they SHOULD have a way to protect anything "unique" that they design, just as you would with a C++ program or the like.  

The truth is, if you want to HIDE the code, it depends on the class of audience as to how well you can "hide" it -- e.g. putting a lot of the JS in a .JS file will "hide" it from many people who don't know about cached JS files.  Using frames and calling subpages that themselves call AO DLL files is another great way to hide streaming video from about 80% of users.  There are LOTS of ways one can try, and each have varying degrees of success/no success depending on this specific audience you are aiming at. There is also nothing wrong with trying to obfuscate/encrypt/confound JS pages from easy debugging, if it is important to you.  After all, it is YOUR intellectual property, isn't it???  It doesn't belong to some arrogant thief, does it????

For further info, X_Com, look at this thread where I tried to help rexmor with extra possibilities --

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Web/Web_Languages/JavaScript/Q_20703460.html

You can see that rexmor too got beaten up initially by all the negative comments, to the point he abandoned the question way too early.  I tried to salvage it but he was too intimidated.  Look at the end of the thread to see the real info come out, and follow the links I provided.  Knowledge is power, and nothing is impossible.

Cheers and best of luck to you, x_com as always,

SciWriter
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David H.H.LeeAuthor Commented:
THANKS!!! sciwriter.
It's a good informations!!! Appreciate!!

Thanks!!

Regards
x_com
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VincentPugliaCommented:
sciwriter:

   The only thing your "try this and that" does is perpetuate the mythos.  True there 'SHOULD' be a way to protect intellectual property -- but that does not mean there 'IS'.  Even if you manage to 'hide' code from 99.99% of the people, you only need 1 person to grab the code and distribute it.  The web was designed as 'open source' and whether you, I and x_com like it or not, that is how it will stay (hopefully).  

  Insofar as whether there is anything wrong with 'wanting' to protect one's intellectual property:  How often have you written code based on someone else's?  Did you include a credit to the effect of "thanks in part to joe so, whose code made me realize this could be done"?  Intellectual property belongs to the world, not the individual.  As has been said, "We stand on the shoulders of giants"

Vinny
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