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ICS Can only share the Internet or files? Windows 2000

Posted on 2003-11-02
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Hi,

I am running Windows 2000 Pro on my 2 home computers.  I have a NIC in both and link them via a Xover cable.  The file+Printer sharing works fine.  I also have a broadband cable modem connected to the USB port, this shows up in Network and dial up cons as "Local area connection2" and the NIC as "Local area connection" If I enable ICS for the USB modem the file sharing does not work? I am told either that the workgroup is unavailable or that I may not have permission.  By Disabling ICS the file sharing is restored??  Why is this?  

I have asked a similar question before when I was having this trouble but now I know I am able to sw. between ICS\file sharing. see the link -http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Win2000/Q_20744622.html#9621005

Do I need to alter some settings to allow ICS to work with file sharing? I think I heard that in XP the firewall that was part of ICS meant you couldn't use file sharing without altering some settings but I have not been able to find anything about windows 2000?  

HEEELLLPPP!!!
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Question by:Malc2003
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Author Comment

by:Malc2003
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Also, if it is the case that I cannot share both using the straight peer to peer connections can I use a HUB or broadband Router to acheive it?  What is the difference with a broadband router and a HUB?  Would I need a HUB aswell as a broadband router?

Cheers

Malc
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by:svenkarlsen
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Just for the record: have you followed the standard procedure? I.e.: setting the secondary computers LAN adapter to DHCP (automatic IP) ?

I read that you use static IP on the secondary PC, which is not recommended.
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Expert Comment

by:rave80
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A broadband router is a device that lets you connect your broadband modem to it and multiple workstations connected to it. It will let your workstations enjoy internet connection sharing and will create a LAN within the workstations itself. while a hub just connect up your workstations without the broadband.

If you have a broadband router, you wouldn't need a hub.
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by:Malc2003
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DHCP is enabled and Automatic IP addressing.  When ICS is enabled it says that the LAN adapter will have a set IP address and that the other comps should have the IP address assigned automaticaly, which they are and the internet connection works but not the file share or visa versa?! :-(

I think it is looking like I will have to get a broadband router but I would like to know WHY I can only use one or the other service without it.

Cheers

Malc
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by:Malc2003
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I have been looking at Broadband router prices and have found that some of them say they are ideal for NTL broadband (My ISP) as it provides MAC address spoofing.  Could this be the reason I can't share at the moment?  What is it!!!
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by:svenkarlsen
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I understand your frustration, - one last suggestion: change both PCs to workgroup "WORKGROUP".

If that doesn't work, do an ipconfig /all (from a DOS-window) from each computer in each situation (when internet works and when LAN works). Compare contents and report any differences.
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by:Malc2003
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The workgroup is set to WORKGROUP as I left it as default this time. I did IPCONFIG /all on both comp in both situations.  The USB connection doesn't change anything.  The NIC in the ICS comp changes its IP to 192.168.0.1 and the NIC in the other comp changes its default gateway to the same.  I will paste it in so you can see what's going on -

ICS comps NIC when ICS disabled -

DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.165.118
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . :

Same Comp ICS Enabled -
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . :

Other Comp with ICS disabled -
  DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.242.167
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . :

ICS Enabled -
  DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.130
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 02 November 2003 16:02:27
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 09 November 2003 16:02:27
Any Ideas?? I notice the Subnet Mask also changes when ICS is enabled..

Malc


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by:Malc2003
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  DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 81.99.152.153
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 81.99.152.254
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 62.254.0.53
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 194.168.4.100
                                            194.168.8.100
This is the IPCONFIG for the USB modem, this doesn't change whether the ICS is on/off

Malc
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Expert Comment

by:svenkarlsen
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everything looks right, - despite the switch between two different subnets, the two pc's are on the same subnet in both situations and should be able to communicate.

When ICS is enabled, try this from 'other pc' in a DOS-box:

     net use x: \\192.168.1.1\C$

if lucky, this should map your X:-drive to C: on the internet pc
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by:Malc2003
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nope it wouldn't have that, i tried it on 192.168.0.1 aswell but just got an error, any more ideas? Or is this a router only job!!  I looked at an NTL page - http://homepage.ntlworld.com/martin.netty/routers.htm
Which claims that it is easy to connect without a router but I have to disagree!!
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by:svenkarlsen
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well, your problems are worse than I usually experience, but it's never impossible.

ICS is a simple service, so I guess it doesn't take much to confuse it. In your case, just the fact that you are using a USB-modem could be the source of trouble.

I'm out of ideas for working along the ICS-track now. I think you should consider setting your PC1 up in a standard router configuration, set PC2 to use PC1 as default gateway and go back to fixed IP's. The problem here is, that it's a long time since I've configured a W2K Wks as router, so I hope perhaps some other expert could give you a fast run-down of the procedure !?
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Expert Comment

by:FishMonger
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1) Disable ICS on the second computer (only the computer that the modem is attached to can be runing ICS) and configure it to use DHCP then shut it down.

2) Enable ICS only on the USB connection.  Your NIC should then be assigned (via ICS) 192.168.0.1 with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 (which is a class C address).

3) Reboot the computer that is running ICS.  Running ipconfig /all should give you:

USB connection:
       Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
       IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 81.99.152.153
       Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
       Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 81.99.152.254
       DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 62.254.0.53
       DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 194.168.4.100
                                           194.168.8.100

NIC connection:
  DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
       IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
       Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
       Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
       DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . :

4) Test that you have access to the Internet.  If you do, go to step 5.  If not, Then we need to take a step back and possibly remove/reinstall some of the networking components.

5) Boot up the second computer (while the other one is running) and run ipconfig /all
You should get something similar to:

 DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
       IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.2
       Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
       Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
       DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
       DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
       Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 02 November 2003 16:02:27
       Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 09 November 2003 16:02:27

If the address is in the 169.x.x.x range (which is a class B address and will have a mask of 255.255.0.0), then run
ipconfig /release
ipconfig /renew

Let me know what happens.
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Expert Comment

by:FishMonger
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Your best solution is forget about using the garbage ICS (which as you can see is very problematic) and buy a DSL router.
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Expert Comment

by:FishMonger
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If you second computer doesn't come up with the 192.168.0.x address, you can maually configure it to the proper numbers instead of using DHCP.
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by:Malc2003
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I followed the instructions that you gave and everything went OK, or at least everything went as expected. The IP addresses etc were fine but still I cannot share files at the same time as the internet.  When I try to access NetworkPlaces-Comps Near me, the folder is empty and if I try to access a previously mapped drive it just says networkpath not found, which I suppose is understandable as the IP has changed.
Should I give up and buy a Router then!!

Cheers Malc
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Expert Comment

by:svenkarlsen
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- no: an empty Network Neighborhood does not necessarily mean that you are not on-line with the other computer.

As you mention yourself, mapped drives will need to be remapped with new addresses.

As for he network neigborhood, we are now down to NetBIOS problems, if you can map a drive on the other PC, like:

net use x: \\[IP Address]\C$

or using the menu-driven features...
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by:Malc2003
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I can map a drive either from a prompt or the GUI prog from either comp, but not when the ICS is enabled.
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Expert Comment

by:FishMonger
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When ICS is enabled, ping each computer by IP address.

So, from the "host computer" (192.168.0.1)
ping 192.168.0.2

from the "client computer" (192.168.0.2)
ping 192.168.0.1

What are the responses?  If they time out, then post the complete output of ipconfig /all from both computers.  Your last posting of ipconfig was missing some of the output info.

If the ping by IP address is successful, try pinging them by name and tell us what happens.
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by:svenkarlsen
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Right, - if you're still game for the project, it's time for the long-shots:

W2K is lousy when it comes to IP routing, it's supposed to work with ICS, but we've covered that subject, so:

Do you have RIP installed/enabled ?

Install/remove programs > Windows components > networking services  - >add or remove, - but just change oyur situation.
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by:Malc2003
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I didn't have RIP installed, so I installed the networking services, but how do I now use RIP?? I tried to add it as a "Protocol" under the local area connection but RIP isn't there?
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by:Malc2003
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Ping timed out from "client" to "host" but was OK from "host" to "client"
 "host" IPCONFIG /ALL  -
Windows 2000 IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : pentiii
        Primary DNS Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 2:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : USB Cable Modem 351000
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-02-8A-60-CA-55
        DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 81.99.152.153
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 81.99.152.254
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 62.254.0.53
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 194.168.4.100
                                            194.168.8.100
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 02 November 2003 12:48:42
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 03 November 2003 12:48:42

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8029(AS)-based PCI Ethern
et Adapter
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-60-52-04-0F-B6
        DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . :

Client -

Windows 2000 IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : pentii
        Primary DNS Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Mixed
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : RPTI RTL8029-Based PCI Ethernet Adap
ter
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-40-95-43-01-1C
        DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.96
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 02 November 2003 23:03:05
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 09 November 2003 23:03:05

Does this help??
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by:FishMonger
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Pinging by IP address should have worked in both directions, so I'm assuming you meant that it timed out when you were pinging by host name.  Right?  Do you have NetBIOS over TCP/IP enabled on both systems?  If not, do you have the IP address & host names listed in youre HOSTS files?
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by:svenkarlsen
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Ping timed out from "client" to "host" but was OK from "host" to "client" ???

Sorry, but in my small universe, that's impossible (unless you ping names and not IP's as Fish correctly notes)

Any ping is bi-lateral: you send something with an originating address, and the receiver uses that address for reply.....

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by:Malc2003
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lol!!  well mine does! if I -

ping 192.168.0.1

from client comp it times out and -

ping 192.168.0.96

from host is OK.  This is what I was having trouble contemplating the last time I asked a similar question (link at top), I assumed that if you could ping from between 2NICs one way you would be able to the other.

Confused
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by:Malc2003
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I don't have NetBIOS installed on either system, I have TCP/IP, File and printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks and Client for Microsoft Networks.
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by:Malc2003
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I think I may have found the answer, which is that I cannot share an NTL cable modem without a router as NTL only comunicate with 1 MAC address and issue only 1 IP address.  So I need a Router that supports NAT, or at least thats what I think this says - http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h.walker/cmtips/homelan.html
But I did think that ICS used NAT?

Malc
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by:svenkarlsen
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As I read your link, it only talks about not being able to use multiple pc's by just adding a hub to the cable-modem.

In 1.) in the document, the solution you are aiming at (ICS) is described as possible.

But I do see that the cable-modem could (theoretically) prevent you from using more than 1 pc, by filtering on originating MAC-address, - that would be a very restrictive practice though.

Does your ISP explicitly state one or the other, - either that you cannot use more than one pc, or that you may use more than one?
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by:svenkarlsen
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To recapitulate:

Whether we like ICS or not, we cannot avoid using it in your situation, because this is the only way you can get NAT-service (you cannot browse the internet with a local address like 192.168.1.1, and your modem shows a public address, so ISP does not provide NAT).

I regret to admit that I cannot come up with any more alternatives and my best advice is that you either change ISP to one that supplies 2 or more IP dynamic IP addresses or stay with your ISP and get a router. It's basically an economic decision, and speed-wise there isn't really any difference. If you switch ISP, you may still have to buy a small hub (10-15$) and a router should be available from 100$ or so.

You can leave this question open for a couple of days, but bottomline is that there is no way around getting some kind of NAT on your PC1, and, as I see it, if ICS doesn't work there is a fair risk that any third-party NAT SW you might find will give you the same problems.

Sorry Malc ;-/

Regards,
Sven
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by:Malc2003
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I actually contacted my ISP technical support and they said that he couldn't help me with any home networking issue as NTL do not provide support for networks.  He wouldn't say why but probably because of THIS issue!!  

Anyway, I disconnected the Cable modem today, installed a PCI 56K dial up card and connected to a free ISP, then enabled internet connection sharing. This worked OK so I can only conclude that there is a "hidden" issue with my ISP/cable modem.  I am going to get a router and use that, I am in the very early stages of an MCSA course and this does require me to have a "hub" set up anyway so I can justify the expense!!

I will leave the question open for another couple of days and see if it gets resolved as it would be nice to be able to say what the problem is and either how to rectify it or at least understand why it is not possible.  Thanks very much for the help Sven and Fishmunger, I have at least learnt a couple of useful things along the way.

Cheers
Malc
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by:FishMonger
FishMonger earned 62 total points
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I was almost ready to suggest that the ICS component was somehow corrupt, but since it's working with the dial-up connection, it is probably OK.  Personally, I've never liked using ICS due to the amount of problems there are in getting it to work.  The router, in my opinion, is always the best approach.  Any one of the basic consumer models from Linksys, Netgear, or D-Link would be perfect; they start at about $50.
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svenkarlsen earned 63 total points
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No worries Malc! If you are going to invest in a router, consider the following issues:

A firewall is a good thing, - often comes as part of router at low extra expense

Hubs vs. Switches:
No doubt that a switch is faster than a hub, and today they are quite inexpensive. And as for the router, you should of go for a model with build-in switch, rather than build-in hub.

But you can do one thing with a hub, that you can't do with a switch: using a good 'promiscuous' network sniffer, you can trap all traffic on that hub. If you want to track traffic in a switch, you will normally have to go for a managed switch, which is rather expensive.


Anyhow: good luck on the MCSE!

Regards,
Sven
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by:Malc2003
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Thanks guys, I have been phoning around for prices of routers I have to go for the cheeeeeapest as I am an unemployed single parent at the moment, i've found the cheapest from a local shop at £45 which is switched with 4 ports. I could probably find a cheaper one if I look elsewhere.

Thanks again for you help guys, give it a couple of days just incase of a miracle!! Then i'll share the points.

Cheers
Malc
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by:Malc2003
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I got a cheap router and connected my Cable modem and comps to it and this works with no problems both Internet and file/printer sharing works no probs.  I will share the points out now as I don't think anyone will conclude WHY exactly ICS doesn't work with file sharing using only a crossover cable.

Thanks for your help again guys it's very much appreciated.

Malc
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by:svenkarlsen
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Malc,
my opinion is that you please forget about the points, - make a posting to get a refund, as we did not help you out on the question.

You may need the points on another subject. Just remember to come back and do some work here on EE, when you've earned your MCSE and get some time.

Kind regards,
Sven
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by:Malc2003
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Sven,
I have already allocated the points now and I would feel a bit of a miser asking for a refund as I did that the last time I asked this question, I don't think I will find the answer to this question anytime soon.  I certainly will be on EE when I have the knowledge, I do occasionally put my opinions in to questions now but only the "easy" ones (It's only easy when you know how)

Cheers

Malc
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