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New win98 computer cannot print on NT network

Posted on 2003-11-04
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Have an existing NT network with  12 win98 and 2 xpPro machines. Just re-installed win98SE on an older machine for a possible new staff member.  Am successful in joining domain, seeing shared mapped drives, and can ping the print router.

Tried adding the printer, but get an error that says could not print due to an unknown system error (there's a helpful message).

But noticed that when I go to network neighborhood on this box, I do not see computers in this domain that I can see on other workstations.  Only the Workgroup icon.

Missed a setting somewhere?

TIA

JoeKus
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Question by:joekus
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by:ShineOn
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Possible.

Are you absolutely certain that you set it up to join the domain?  Win9x can't "join" the way WinNT/2K/XP can, as computers, but if the Microsoft networking pieces are all in place there shoulldn't be this issue.

Have you verified all of the pieces?  Protocol stack(s), workgroup/domain settings, addressing (if IP,) WINS, etc.?  Does all of it match the working Win9X machines?  Are you using DHCP for IP addressing (presuming that you are using IP,) or are you assigning IP addresses (also presuming you are using IP?)
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by:joekus
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Working from last to first
DHCP--Used it and also assigned IP address; get same result.
Match other machines--Yes WINS;addressing; domain
Protocol stack(s)--Not sure.  Could you clarify (i.e. walk the dumass through the steps;)?

JK
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by:ShineOn
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Ok, Mr Dumass, I think I'm dumass material and can really work like a dumass should to get ahead at the firm of dumass and dumass...

Protocol stacks.  A few examples:

NetBEUI - really old Microsoft networking protocol that they inherited from IBM way back in the '80's.  Cannot be routed.  Being phased out.

IPX - Proprietary Novell networking protocol.  Very easy to manage, routable, but chatty.  Being phased out.

Appletalk - Proprietary Apple (Mac) networking protocol.  Also chatty, and also being phased out.

IP - The "winner."  Protocol that all the others are "phasing out" to.  IP stands for "Internet Protocol."  On top of that protocol are carried packets of data using other, related protocols, like TCP and UDP  (Transmission Control Protocol and Universal Datagram Protocol.)  TCP/IP, UDP/IP, ICMP/IP and others comprise the IP protocol stack.
 
Does this "protocols 101" help any?  Do you need more info on protocols?

What I'm getting at is - what protocols do you have defined, and which ones do you really NEED to have defined?  Do they all match within the framework of the network you are trying to establish?

That may or may not have anything to do with your inability to print.  I just want to eliminate it as a possibility.
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by:Cyber-Hick
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If you can see shared mapped drives then it should not be any problems with the domain.  I am assuming that when you say see shared mapped drives that you can get into them and open files.  I think that this is probably a problem with a print driver.  Your print router, does it contain drivers or are you talking about something like a jet direct box.  In either case make sure that you can ping the print router and that you have the latest drivers installed on the 98 box.  If you are using a print server, you should be able to assign an additional driver to the printer on the print server or 9x machines.  Make sure that the print server(if you have one) has the right drivers for 9x machines.

Hope this helps,
C-H
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by:ShineOn
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Good point, CH.

joekus - have you uninstalled and reinstalled the printer, to see if perhaps your printer install or driver on that PC were corrupted somehow?
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by:joekus
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ShineON
"Protocols 101" especially helpful.  Am removing one s from dumass--you can fill in the rest.
Protocols in place:
  internet connection sharing (dial up adapter; dial up adapter#2<VPN support>;internet connection sharing)
  NDISWAN (Microsoft Virtual Networking Adapter)
  TCP/IP (3Com Fast Eternetxl 10/100MB; Dial up adapter)
Don't need IPX or Appletalk and all other computers get to printer via TCP/IP, so think NetBEUI wouldn't be needed.

Good one, CH--But--Have already downloaded driver from HP's site (HP LJ1200) which throws a description comparable to other computers.  Have tried deleting and re-installing from add printers icon and secondly by deleting printer and dragging printer icon from network into printers.  Set up seems to go fine in both cases until I try to print the test page.  Incidentally, I have to do a 'find computer' to 'see' the server, cannot see it (or the others visible on other computers) in network neighborhood. Could problem be here? Seems relating to question above--joining domain.  I do get logon screen with proper domain showing and as a result a good user name and password allows boot up to procede as expected.



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by:ShineOn
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Could be a name resolution issue all the way around.  Do you have a switch or router between your Win98 PC and the server?  Maybe you need to add the server to LMHOSTS on the Win98 PC, including the preload option...
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by:joekus
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Have a 2 switches between Win98 and server.  Use as a testing area. Other machines, both win98 and xp have worked (currently one XP connected and working through the 2 switches) here.

Oops add the s back on. Unfamiliar with LMHOSTS so went to
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=101927
don't see Win98 machines listed in that article.  But willing to try anything, so was going to try it. However didn't find a ..\system32\Drivers\Etc folder.
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by:ShineOn
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The LMHOSTS file in Win9x is located in the C:\WINDOWS directory.
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by:joekus
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Have noticed the port settings on other machines include a TCP/IP port which doesn't exist on the troublesome Win98 one.  How do I add a TCP/IP port (in the Printer Properties|Details|Add Port window)?  All it allows me is a network port(don't want this, want TCP/IP) and 'other' where only 'Local Port' is listed, not 'TCP/IP port' like on the working Win98 machines.
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by:ShineOn
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Where is this TCP/IP port setting located?  What utility are you using to get there?  Is this in printer properties or network properties?
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by:ShineOn
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Never mind - you already answered that.  You need to do an "add printer" and select a network printer through the "add printer" wizard, choosing the same printer address as the other PCs have.
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by:joekus
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Don't think so.

In XP when you add a printer in the wizare, they finally put a message that will tell you that if you are adding a TCP/IP printer, add a local printer.  This is the same for the other Win98's I've done this with.  

I tried adding it as a network printer--for some reason the domain is showing now, so I was able to select the printer by name as a network printer.  When attempting to print, I get the same error as described at square one. So that approach is a no go.
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by:ShineOn
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I thought this was 98.  What's with the XP reference?

Have you looked up that error msg on MS TechNet?
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by:ShineOn
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If this is a TCP/IP only network, then you must print to a server queue from Win98.  Win98 will not print directly over TCP/IP to a printer, so if you have a JetDirect or some such set up for IP printing, the Win98 PC can only print to it through a print server.  What does the "printer port" setting look like on the ones that work?  Is it different at all from the one that doesn't?
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by:joekus
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The XP reference is that MS finally realized many people were using TCP/IP to print and that most people would call a printer that is not hooked directly into your computer a "network printer" not a "local printer over TCP/IP", so instead of having intuitive choices, they can point to the note and say "Problem solved".

There is a difference.  The working ones allow me to add/configure a TCP/IP port.  The nonresponsive does not.  This is where I believe the problem is.

JK
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by:joekus
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http://www-jerry.oit.duke.edu/community/howto/pc/add_tcpip_printer.html

Good description of what SHOULD have happened
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by:joekus
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Did not notice this line in the above link.

This document describes how to add TCP/IP printers to MW Windows PC's. Win95/98/ME computers need to have TCP/IP printing software installed (e.g. ACITS LPR remote printing software from Univ Texas); Win 2000/XP do not. Fortunately, the procedure for adding a TCP/IP printer is the same in both cases.


Note the additional SW I need.

Go ahead and respond to this ShineOn and I'll pass you the points.

Thanks for your time and the protocol stack tutorial

JK
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ShineOn earned 250 total points
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That's what I was next going to mention - that you need special software to print IP with 9x.  Can you expand on the point of your link so this can be a good PAQ?
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by:joekus
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Synopsis of above mentioned link
Add the win98 lpr software
Add printer as if it were local
This will allow adding of a tcp/ip port for configuring
Once ip address is entered for this port and other configuration is correct: blue skies and fat cigars for everybody.
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by:ShineOn
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Thanks.
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