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Dial up modem Overclocking

Posted on 2003-11-16
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Last Modified: 2013-12-27
Hi,

Since this isn't illegal with the dial up internet services, i was wondering if someone knows how to change a few important setting (or even rebuild the actual modem) that would greatly change my connection speed. I am not talking about those crappy programs you can download that make multiple connection, those are a waste of time, my connection is already at the max when downloading something, so that doesnt make the slightest difference.

Thanks
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Question by:TaintedGod
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by:rayt333
ID: 9760266
There is nothing you can do with the modem to make it "overclock"
you can change a setting ot 2 and get it to show the "port" speed instead of the actual modem speed (like 115,000) but that isn't going to change the actual speed, but it may make you feel better.

Since you didn't say what speed you were connecting at then I have to assume you are connecting in the 46 to 49kbps range, if so then you are about the best you can get with modem dial up.

You need to check to see if DSL or Cable is available in your area. The only other high speed is Satellite with offers fast download speed but upload speed is still about the same as with modem.
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9766886
Actaully there are ways to overcloack modems, ive heard of it being done, you are only limited to the technology and the OS you are using. Say you designed modems, im sure you would know what peice of electronics is the main factor to your max speed. I wanted to know what and how, and you cant just tell me this is impossible.
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by:rayt333
ID: 9766983
I hate to sound rude, but the modem isn't the controlling facter here for the speed, the phone line is the problem area. You simply cannot force more data down the line then the line will handle.

Compare it to pouring water in a funnel, you can pour more in the top then it will run out the bottom, it just backs up until it overflows or you stop pouring water into the top.
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9767230
To stick whith your funnel concept, what if there was more preasure forcing the water down. Without doing anything, there is only the gravity pushing it down, add pump and what do you get? More water coming out of the end.
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by:rayt333
ID: 9767764
How do you add a pump to a funnel? sure you would get more water to the top of the funnel but all you would do is cause it to over flow faster. You can't add any more pressure to a "funnel" sure you can pump water under pressure inside a closed chamber but a funnel is not a closed container now is it.
I guess you just don't understand it do you?

The phone line can only handle appox 53K under ideal conditions, while ideal conditions is hard to come by unless you live next to the digital to analog switch and there is a new copper line between you and the switch, but if you live more then a mile or two from the switch or if the lines are really older lines then you are probably limited to a 33.6 max connection speed.

If you want to force more into the "funnel"  phone line then go with DSL, this is much different then standard analog phone service and much faster, but on a much higher freq.
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9767884
You see, I understand it more than you do, you say a closed chamber is not a funnel, well no Sh*t, and by funnel here, we are talking about the modem, and what i am saying is to rebuilt this modem/funnel. Which would then make my closed chamber.

All you have told me here is, the limits and what I can not do.  You just can see out side the box now can you?

Now lets say I was farther away from this switch, would there not be a way to amplify the signal, or even increase the frequency or would their switch not be able to understand it?

I am not here to argue, nor to insult, all I want is information, so please do not insult my intelligence.

Thanks.
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by:rayt333
ID: 9768208
"so please do not insult my intelligence."

I wouldn't if only you would show you had some.
Sometimes the only answer is "not possible" at least not at a reasonable cost, maybe if you spent a million or 2 upgrading the phone network then it would be possible but at the same rate a trip is possible if you have enough money to spend.


You cannot change the frequency on the transmitting side and expect the receiving end to "get it" everything has to be on the same frequency.

You can leave the question open as long as you wish, but your answer is in the first post.
"It can not be done" at least not on an open network (such as the phone network)
Yes you could modify the modem to communicate within a closed network but the question would be why?? there is faster networking devices already available for less money then the modification would cost. It would be spending more to get less if you follow my drift.



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by:Hunty
ID: 9768265
Having worked for the phone company I know that you'll never get over 60Kbps connection speeds until they upgrade most/all of the cables that carry the signals to your ISP.  Most ISPs also put a governor on the connections which is usually set at about 56K.  So my friend, anything you do to your modem to OC it will essentially be useless and in vain.
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9768654
*I wouldn't if only you would show you had some.*

So you are trying to say i show no intelligence? Well thats pretty funny i must say, please tell me, what do you do for a living? Computer consultant for windows ? LOL , i'll have you know, i am far more successful than you will ever be.

Ok then listen to this, I once was downloading from some server that obviously had a great connection (probably t3) and i was getting 20 kb a second instead of the usual 0.10 - 8.00 kb at the max, now the only way this ever happens is if the other person has a really good conncetion but even if you are on cable, you can upload atleast 20kb a sec, but this just doesnt happen on dialup, which means there is some fualt somewhere that can be fixed. I should not need someone with that kind of conncetion for me to get that kind of speed.

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by:rayt333
ID: 9768737
" what do you do for a living?"

I am on welfare and fish in my spare time, gee if only you would have read my profile you would have known that.
:>)

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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9775724
Yeah, thats pretty amazing, considering that job description sounds like a joke (I am not talking about your post made here) . If you are going to insult me, atleast have some sort of good background to back yourself up.

Also, if you dont have an answer, please dont waste my time and post, I dont care how impossible you say it is, you arent getting any points from me.
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by:rayt333
ID: 9775763
LOL   what do you think the points are?? something really valuable??
You just don't understand even the basic stuff do you.

OK, I will clue you in, the points are worthless, I can't even trade them for a cup of coffee.

I don't care what you do with your points, but you have your answer above, maybe if you would listen for a change you would understand a few of the basics.

Have a nice day!!!!!
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9782860
Wow, you think you're pretty smart don't you. If the points are so useless, why even post? Why even try to get any?

The funny thing is too, the points can end up being worth a lot more than a cup of coffee, that's the whole reason this site is so successful. If you end up getting enough points, your name gets recognised and can then give you a job and many other things. It seems you are the fool here, because as i have said before, I just understand this a whole lot better than you will ever.

You have also proved you do care about the points since you continue to post, and don't let this post stop you in the future.

Indeed a will have a nice day, since my better understanding will help me in life and is why I will always be better than yourself.

Have a nice live!
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by:rayt333
ID: 9783002
LOL, you really crack me up, you "think" you know what is going on, and the more you talk the dumber you look. At first I just thought you was a little dumb, now you have proved me wrong, you have proven you are beyond dumb, but deep into "stupid".

I have more points now you you will ever have and they haven't done me any good yet and probably never will.
Hell the Number One dude here (CrazyOne) is unemployed and has been for quite some time, so I see those million plus points is really helping him huh??
One million points and a buck will get you a cup of coffee at some places.

 
Login Name       TaintedGod
Expert Points      2360
Registration Date       10/07/2003
Expert Points This Month          2000

Yep, I'm impressed for sure.
:>)

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by:rayt333
ID: 9783015
If the points are so useless, why even post?

I post because I like to help out the weak and needy
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by:TGHI
ID: 9785123
...ANYWAY... there is no way that I could think of to increase modem speed.  The problem is the phoneline.  The only reason why 56K modems acheive the speeds they do is because of compression.  Raw data can only be transferred over a phone line at around 28.8K/s.  The telephone modem has reached its highest point in evolution - time for DSL, or whatever you fancy.  
  Oh and about getting upto 20Kbs on a modem isn't uncommon - with text files.  Text can be highly compressed - pictures, video, audio and most other web based media is already compressed and can't be squeezed much further.


      _/ TGHI  
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by:ahoydave
ID: 9789260
Speaking as a telecom design engineering consultant, the problem is not the cable so it does not matter how much "pressure" you put behind your data. The cable is probably good for a few megabits data rate. The switching office that is at the far end of your phone line converts the analog signal to digital at 64kbps and then some handshaking bits are added that reduce it to 56kbps. You have no way to "overclock" the phone company switching office so you cannot get a higher data rate in this way.
Now for the other side of the issue: You probably are not getting all the performance you could or else you would be getting 56kbps. The FCC limits the signal level your modem can send and that further reduces the data rate. That also applies to the signal coming from the other end and here again, you can't change that. If you add more processing power in your modem and the DSP software to use it, then you can improve your noise performance and your connect rate but you still can't change the equipment at the phone company to exceed the FCC lmit of about 53kbps down stream. I hope I have cleared up the issue a little bit.
David
http://www.inventgineering.com/
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9790395
rayt333

"If the points are so useless, why even post?

I post because I like to help out the weak and needy"

Well then your assistance is not needed, so please leave.
Also, I am not here to impress you, im here to get questions answered and maybe answer a couple myself.

TGHI

Your saying I was getting that speed because of compression? I was downloading a big program in a zip file, surely the file couldnt be futher compressed.

ahoydave

what if i were to add processing power to my modem, wouldnt that then help me reach the limit of 56k, since I would have a stronger signal and then anything extra would be decreased. This would leave room for any other complication that is usual causing the slower speed. By increasing the processing power, I would know there i nothing else that could be done to help the speed.
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by:rayt333
ID: 9790462
TaintedGod
Whether you like it or not the answer to your question was in the first comment I posted, you choose to ignore that and argue the point. But that still does not change the fact that you cannot "overclock" the modem on an analog phone line. If you have modem to modem connection over a direct wired line (not using phone company's lines) then you can get faster transfer speed. But not what you are wanting to do.
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9790803
Even if it is true, the points wont be going to you since i am so "deeply stupid".
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by:rayt333
ID: 9792326
Why are you so fixated on the points??
Notice how you keep bringing them up?? Not once have I said I wanted the points?? The points are mostly worthless, if you think they are so valuable then please show me where they are actually worth something? The site used to give away T-shirts for different points level (I have the whole set, most are still new and unworn) and once they gave away choice of HP scanner and something else, I chose the scanner. Now there is nothing being given away for any amount of points.
I was only trying to help and you are so hostile towards me, Why?? Is it because you hate to admit you are wrong?
 
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by:ahoydave
ID: 9794785
Sorry but the processing power of YOUR modem does nothing for the switching equipment at the central office. The FCC signal limit will limit the rate to about 53k because not all the available bit patterns of the the 64/56k PCM digital voice channel are used. You can improve your ability to receive but only if you have NEW DSP software in your modem to take advantage of increased processing power. Because of the limits you cannot change, the improvement is marginal. You might do better by replacing the connections and wiring from the demarcation point to your modem and eliminating ALL extensions and even the wiring to other outlets and extensions.
I used to use an ISDN line and then connected an analog modem through its analog phone ports. The maximum I got was about 52k becsue my phone line was effectively 3 feet long to the serving equipment. In your case, it is probably a mile or two. If you really want speed and still dialup, look into data compression schemes and multi-line connections, or ISDN. The latter gives you 64k both ways on one channel and 128k using both channels. Considering the cost, DSL or cable modem is a much better choice. Wireless options also exist but expect a big premium for the portability whether you need it or not.
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by:Hunty
ID: 9797267
That's what I was trying to tell him ahoydave!  Thank you for explaining it so well.  I just didn't feel like going into such detail.  :-)
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by:ahoydave
ID: 9800097
The detail may be necessary to overcome an emotional attachment to an idea. It would be nice to be able to "overclock" a modem and get a higher data rate but since the modem is only part of the data link, it is not enough. I am not sure he has not received information concerning the modem transmit signal strength and boosting it above the FCC limit to maximise the inbound data rate.
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by:Hunty
ID: 9800223
Understood.
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9800754
Ok, I really dont care if you say it doesnt make a difference and it probably wont, but can you please tell me how to do it. I'm not accepting how it wont work, just tell me how I can change all these settings.

And rayt33 if you dont care so much, then JUST SHUT THE HELL UP AND STOP POSTING DAMMIT. Stop proving me right that you care by posting over and over.
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by:rayt333
ID: 9801074
TaintedGod
The more you post the more we see how you really are. But the fact that you keep attacking me is puzzeling to me. Is it because I was right and you were wrong? gee get over it, act like an adult even if you aren't one. Stop the unproveked attacks on me and I will leave you alone. So far you are the one doing the attacking and then tell me to "SHUT UP"   you really are not so bright are you!!

I was right
I was right
I was right

LOL
Have a nice day, and remember, in my first comment, I was right and you were wrong.
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by:Hunty
ID: 9801249
He has a point.
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9801540
rayt333

First, you posted again, thank you, second, you are the child here, " I was right, I was right, I was right" , I bet you were dieing to say that. Third, I can not be wrong by asking a question . Forth, I will always have a nice day.

Huntress58

"He has a point." Thank you for that much needed information, I now know your great opinion.
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9801551
Also, I bet you find a lot of things puzzeling, maybe it's the fact you arent as smart as you make yourself out to be. It may be that i am "attacking" you becuase, you happen to also be attacking me. Well if that sounds crazy to you well, maybe I am the dumb one here.
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by:ahoydave
ID: 9803931
Technically, dumb would be no response. I feel the best course is to try and impart knowledge and understanding BOTH ways. To do anything else is moronic and irresponsible. Being right can give one person a sense of pride about himself but everybody else a quite different opinion of him.

There are several aspects to getting more processing power from a modem. The first is the sampling rate. This one determines the frequencies encoded etc. and cannot be changed without completely changing the signal processing algorithms or the entire remainder of the data link including the phone company central office and ISP modem. The second is the signal processors. These are designed to complete a specific set of tasks in the allotted time allowed by the sampling clock. Even if you speed up the processor, the same tasks, and only those tasks, will be done at the original rate. What you will succeed in doing is giving the signal processors more time to wait on the sampling circuits. Chances are, the sampling circuits are integrated with the processing circuits and share a common clock even though the tasks are completely different. The only way to make use of more speed is to rewrite the processing code.

Changing transmit level to boost your upload speed is accomplished either through a code change or changing out most of the analog parts. This speed is NEVER near 56k but may be around 34k max. The longer the lline, the slower this rate because of transmit level limits.

Your ISP "modems" probably have no analog parts at all. The digital line cards in the phone company central office act as the sampling system and analog front end for the your ISP modem. Their sampling clock is tied to the atomic time standard clock which I doubt you can tweek. (Einstein might provide some clues how to do it)
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9804153
By Einstein you mean, Albert Einstein as a joke?  Or is there someone you know that could help me?
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ahoydave earned 500 total points
ID: 9813731
Joke. Sorry about that. I tried to make it clear that the processing circuits are already clocking faster than they need to go just to be sure the tasks they are programmed to do is complete in time they have. The time they have is determined by the sampling rate clock. The algorithm and the communications standards they communicate with determine your modem sample rate. It is very much like the sampling of a sound card except there are special digital signal processors that MODulate and DEModulate (MODEM) the digitized signal. The phone company has its own sample rate in the central office and you can't change it. It is 8kHz all over the planet. This means the highest frequency that can be sent through the switching system is about 3400Hz. This is limited by physics and backed up by very powerful filters. (look up Nyquist) The wires are better than that unless you have "load coils" which are found on phone lines over 3 miles long. Different modems use different circuits so to get a better idea on what you might do, look up data sheets and application note for the larger chips on your modem board. Analog circuits are a lot more interdependant than the connect the dots digital world. The most key component is the coupling transformer. Improve its performance and everything gets better. Generally, the larger the coupling transformer, the better it is. You may even use two transformers but your modem chips may be designed specifically for a certain cheap one. One function that occures in the modem is "hybrid" function where the full duplex phone signal is converted into seperate transmit and receive. This can occur in transformers, transformer and amplifiers, or digitally inside the modem chip. This page on my web site might help you understand:
http://www.inventgineering.com/Telephony.htm
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9814021
Thanks, that's what I was looking for. Not a simple no, your idea is flawed.
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by:alanangie
ID: 9850376
WOW, my first visit here and i stumble into the junior shool!!!............think i will sort out my own answers
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by:jjr16
ID: 9868808
In ahoydave's second comment he mentioned:
"You can improve your ability to receive but only if you have NEW DSP software in your modem to take advantage of increased processing power. Because of the limits you cannot change, the improvement is marginal."

But he didn't mention upgrading your DSP software to the new modem standard v.92 or how to.  It's well worth it if you want to tweak your modem and your modem doesn't already support it.  You can upgrade by going to your computer manufacter's website and downloading and installing your newest modem drivers or your modem manufacturer's website and doing the same (may be listed as firmware upgrade).  See this link for more info on v.92:

http://www.agere.com/support/client/modem_faqs.html
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9878284
I am already using a v.92 modem but, almost all the isp's only support v.90, so, im sure there is no difference, but thanks for the post.
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by:ahoydave
ID: 9882369
http://www.v92.com/about/
Gives a description of V.92. To upgrade, you need to check with your modem vendor for the software upgrade. This does not address increasing the processing speed.
Your ISP will probably upgrade, go out of business, or be bought out.
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by:TaintedGod
ID: 9886271
Actaully, I bet they will never upgrade to v.92, as far as I can see, it would be pointless. If they were going to do any sort of upgrading, it would be to broadband, where all the good money is, and not dialup.
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by:ahoydave
ID: 9893257
Look at the other possibilities. The broadband market is probably not open to them. A large percentage of US cannot get broadband.
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by:rmcferren
ID: 10304910
Do all phone companies have this govenor on the lines.
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by:Hunty
ID: 10306512
Yes.  The problem is old equipment and cables that have to be updated and will take several years and a few billion dollars to complete.  When the demand becomes more prevalent, to the point of losing money, then I'm sure they'll finally finish the job they started a couple of years ago.  Blame ATT, they own all of the undergound interstate cables as far as I know.  At least they used to.  All the local stuff is easy.
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by:ahoydave
ID: 10310388
Technical comment:
The problem is not so much the age of the cables but the length and routing. The phone companies have been slowly working to reduce this length to 1 - 2 miles but in the neighborhoods, a typical wire pair may appear at several locations. This creates short unterminated peices of cable they wreak havok with very high speed DSL. All this is slowly being fixed in an effort to up DSL bandwidth to 8 MBS. This is pretty much expected to be the last copper upgrade before fiber goes all the way to the home.
Business and political comment:
The phone companies had an opportunity to address cabling and were about to but in stepped the Clinton-Gore team and I particulary aim at Gore as Clinton seemd to be more interested in pure politics. At a time when the upgrades to the cabling should have been done for the deployment of ISDN, Gore made a number of speeches about rebuilding the nation's telecom infrastructure. Much was talked about how the government was going to be behind this rebuild. The phone companies in response stopped "wasting" money on the existing system and instead invested in telecom in other countries. This made sense as it was a business they knew. The political posturing was nothing more than politics and a way to increase revenue with added fees to your phone bill. Bill and Al got their pictures made pulling usless fiber in schools. Our phone system went in decay while the rest of the world went digital. The cleanup that would have been done for ISDN is the same that needs to be done for DSL.
The future:
What is coming will largely depend on political winds. The most certain is VOIP (voice over internet protocol). This is the point where the circuit switched phone system will go away and it really puts the squeeze on phone companies. Long distance becomes a thing of the past. At the same time though, cable companies will be hard pressed for inbound bandwidth. This will probably be the closest thing to a "killer ap" to force fiber to the home and until that happens, it appears the cable companies have the upper hand in high speed data. The sleeping giant in all this is the power companies who do not seem to know they have the opportunity to come out on top with fiber to the end user. The power companies have more rights of way than anybody. Fiber does not carry electrical power so it has no issues jumping around transformers when routed in the core of power cables and buying electricity for switching nodes and repeaters is not an issue. Wireless will also make for some interesting changes as the size of serving cells gets smaller and smaller to deliver bandwidth in a fixed amount of spectrum. Again, the power companies own a hugh number of poles and towers on which to put these base nodes.
Sorry if I do not address v.92 deployment but I really don't see that much point in kicking a dying horse such as analog modems. The switched phone system is limited to about 56k due to the digital network that carries it and the real data rate you get is less due in part to regulations. The full data rate is ISDN where two channels are carried on one wire with each channel delivering 64k each way. Compressing the data is content dependant and that is where you see some improvement. Regulations are not likely to change since such a change could be a problem for DSL. If you want higher bandwidth, your choices are cable, DSL, fixed wireless, wireless, and even ISDN. By the way, technically, DSL can exist on top of ISDN but nobody really seems interested in doing it. Some ISPs have a scheme where you can use 2 modems and two lines to double your data rate but guess what, it costs twice as much. The technique was originally developed for ISDN to get 128kbps using both channels.
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by:Hunty
ID: 10312717
ahoydave, you are so much eloquent than I sir.  :-)
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by:Hunty
ID: 10312739
I meant "so much more eloquent".   <gets another cup of coffee>
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by:scrapdog
ID: 10339676
"i am far more successful than you will ever be."

ROFLMAO.
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by:ahoydave
ID: 10343466
I really don't care about eloquent but some reasonable imparting of knowledge. There are no stupid questions nor even stupid answers as long as they are attempts to spread knowledge. In the end, we die and what is left for the planet is what we have done for it. Teaching others something useful amplifies our contribution.
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by:Hunty
ID: 10346403
I have nothing but respect for your expertise Dave.
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