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Windows 2K network with Linksys Router (BEFSR41) & ZoneAlarm - Can't find other computer

Posted on 2003-12-01
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Hi Experts - I am new to both networking & ZoneAlarm & am trying to implement a network using a Windows 2K network (desktop & laptop both on W2K) with Linksys Router (BEFSR41) & ZoneAlarm.  I must be doing something wrong but can't find a way to find the other computer using either Search for Computers or Map Drive.  Both PC's are able to connect to the internet.  I have put the network and my Linksys router in my ZoneAlarm Trusted Zone (but that is all that is there ...).  I also want to be able to have either PC share the printer hooked to the desktop via USB.  Am going nuts trying to find an answer - hope you can help!!

Jeff
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Question by:jeffreywsmith
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by:Luc Franken
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Hi jeffreywsmith,

You should put the other computers IP-adresses or the entire IP-range into the trusted zone.

Greetings,

LucF
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by:Luc Franken
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Also, have you made sure that the credentials are the same on both computers? Use the same username and password, or create useraccounts for them.
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by:jeffreywsmith
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Hi LucF & thanks for your quick response.  

- How do I find out what the IP addresses are for the 2 computers?  I ran ipconfig /all - is this the IP address appearing under my Ethernet Adapter?  
- Also, won't this address change via DHCP when the lease expires?
- I have set up the same credentials on both computers - is it necessary for both users to be logged on at the same time?

Thanks,

Jeff
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by:Luc Franken
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>I ran ipconfig /all - is this the IP address appearing under my Ethernet Adapter?  
Yes it is.

>Also, won't this address change via DHCP when the lease expires?
Yes it will, that's why you should put the whole range into your trusted zone.

>I have set up the same credentials on both computers - is it necessary for both users to be logged on at the same time?
Not neccesery, it should work without a problem
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by:jeffreywsmith
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How can I determine the "whole range"?
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by:Luc Franken
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I assume your DHCP server gives out 192.168.1.x adresses, if this is the case, then the whole range is 192.168.1.0 to 192.168.1.255

You can put in the whole range by doing this:

From the main window of ZA:

Click "Firewall" => "Zones" => "Add>>" => "IP-range"

Set "Zone" to trusted
"IP-address" => 192.168.1.0
"IP-address" => 192.168.1.255
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by:Luc Franken
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Btw, in this example I assumed that that was the range from your DHCP server. If it isn't, just give the IP address of one of the computers and I'll be able to adjust the settings so they'll work.
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I tried adding the IP range in ZA as indicated, and hit "Apply"  but I still can't Find the laptop computer or map the drive.  Do I need to re-boot or do something else here?  I don't know if it makes any difference here or not, but the IP address assigned to the DHCP server subnet is within this latest IP range I just added ...

Jeff
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by:Luc Franken
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Can you ping the computers?
Start => run => type "cmd" (without the quotes) and press enter

at the command prompt,

type ping <ip-address of the other computer>
and press enter, what are the results of this, and does zonealarm react on the other computer?
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Before I try pinging, let me say that I haven't installed ZA on the laptop yet ... does this make a difference?
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Ping found all 4 packets were received.

Jeff
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by:Luc Franken
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Yes, it makes a difference, try ping the desktop computer from the laptop now.

LucF

p.s. I assumed you allready checked this, but are both computers set to use the same workgroup name?
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by:jeffreywsmith
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Laptop pinged the desktop successfully & yes, both computers have the same workgroup name.
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by:Luc Franken
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Just to be sure...

Rightclick "my computer" => "Properties" => "Network identification" => "Properties"
see here if both computers are set to use the same workgroup.
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by:Luc Franken
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Can you please post the IP-adresses of the two computers, it'll make it much more easy to post comments.

1) If you disable zonealarm, does your network work then?
2) Can you ping computers by using the computer name instead of the ip-address?
3) Is the subnet mask the same on both computers
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by:jeffreywsmith
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yes, both computers have the same workgroup name.
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by:Luc Franken
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I assumed you allready checked that, my post was at the same time you responded, sorry for that... Please look at my last comment.
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by:Luc Franken
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btw, what error message do you get when you try to access the shares on the other computer? (both ways)
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by:jeffreywsmith
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No need to apologize :)

1) By disable, do you mean to Shut Down ZA?  And if it makes any difference, the network briefly worked before installing ZA (I could see the laptop's drive but had not been able to share the printer - I would enable the Printer's Sharing, click APPLY & OK but then when I immediately opened the Printer properties, the Sharing had switched back to Not Shared).  Trying to solve that problem, I have bounced around from one tech support article to another trying various things & along the way picked up ZA & have been struggling since (I believe the ability to see the laptop disappeared long before I installed ZA).  Interestingly, I now just checked on the Printer Sharing issue & this time, with my current setup, the Sharing property was retained even though I can't see the laptop (reverse of my original problem).
2) Is there a syntax to use when pinging by name? Initial tries did not work ...
3) The subnet mask appearing under the EtherNet adapter LAN is the same on both computers

I will try to Find the Computer & report back error messages

Jeff
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by:Luc Franken
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1) so as I understand it the right way, this should have nothing to do with zonealarm, the trusted zones are set the right way. But just to be sure, I suggest you shut down zonealarm just to test it.
2) nothing special, just "ping <computername>"
3) ok, so we can forget about this, this is set the right way.

Is it possible for you to post the IP-addresses of both computers and the computernames (use fake ones if you like) it would make it more easy to post comments for me.
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As far as "accessing the share" - from Windows Explorer, I clicked on My Network Places, & am able to drill down Entire network|Microsoft Windows Network| & see my Workgroup name. On the desktop, I can see another folder below my Workgroup for the desktop PC ONLY - no entry for the lap top. On the laptop, I get only as far as the Workgroup where there are "0 objects" below.

1) I will try to test with ZA disabled but see below, too
2) I was not able to Ping by name, either way ("Unknown Host")

As far as posting IP addresses and computer names, I guess I need to show my ignorance & get educated here - if I post my IP addresses &/or computer names on the internet, aren't I taking some risks of being hacked? Especially if I turn ZA off as instructed above? I guess I have some sense that it is not a risk (or else you wouldn't be asking me) but I don't understand enough to know why it isn't a risk or if it is, how I can manage the risk ...

Jeff
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by:Luc Franken
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>As far as posting IP addresses and computer names
>aren't I taking some risks of being hacked
No, this is no problem, the IP adresses you're using internally are from a non routable IP range wich isn't even visuable from the outside. Same counts for the computernames, your router will take care of that.
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by:jeffreywsmith
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Here you go:

Desktop: name=HP 192.168.1.101
Laptop: name=TAD 192.168.1.100
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by:Luc Franken
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Ok, so from command prompt on the desktop:

ping TAD <= does this give errors
ping 192.168.1.100 <= this works

from command prompt on the laptop:
Ping HP <= does this give errors
ping 192.168.1.101 <= this works

And what happens if you disable the firewall for just a second? Or does it react at any of these comments?

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by:jeffreywsmith
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Ping results:

- Unknown Host TAD
- Works
- Unknown Host HP
- Works

The above results were the same whether ZA was on or off.  BTW, you said earlier that it made a difference that ZA wasn't installed yet on the laptop but didn' t elaborate ... should I try to find a way to do this now?  Actually, I was waiting until I got the network running so I could copy the ZA download to the laptop (if necessary)  ...

Jeff
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by:Luc Franken
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Try running this comment from the command prompt on both computers:

ipconfig /flushdns

And see if the Ping command works then.
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Same results as above w/ ZA off - I didn't try with it on ...
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by:Luc Franken
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Do you have "file and printer sharing" installed?
to check this: right-click "My Network Places" => "Properties" => right-click "Local area connection" => "Properties"
see if it's listed there.

I think I'm missing something really obvious, just don't know what it is.... :-(

Have you got the error message yet?

From the laptop, try:
Start => run => type "\\HP\<shared foldername>" (without the quotes) and press enter.
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by:jeffreywsmith
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We may be passing posts here "simultaneously" here but the ping results after the flush were the same as before with ZA off - I didn't try with ZA on yet ...

"File and printer sharing for Micorosft Networks" is installed.

I haven't shared the drives on the desktop at this point although I may in the future. I have only shared the C drive on the laptop ... so using above, I tried "\\TAD\C_" and got an error: "The network path was not found>"

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by:Luc Franken
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try \\TAD\C$ (wich is the hidden share of your "C" drive)
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I tried that, too - same error
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by:Luc Franken
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I am stumped :-(
It's exactly 0.00 u now here (netherlands), so I'm going to take a nap soon, but I'll be back tomorrow morning, I hope other experts can find something that I forgot in the meantime.

One thing for you to try:

\\192.168.1.100\C$

Does this works, if it does, please try

ipconfig /registerdns

and see if that helps.
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by:jeffreywsmith
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\\192.168.1.100\C$ - this Works!!

do you still want me to try the "ipconfig /registerdns"?
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Thanks LucF - Get some sleep & please check in with me when you can to see if this has resolved ...

Jeff
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by:Luc Franken
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the beep of the e-mail notification got me going again, so this will be my last post for tonight 0:25 u now :-( I have to get up at 6:30

Yes, try the ipconfig /registerdns

At least we've gotten some progress ;-)
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Am trying the registerdns - says process has been initiated & any errors will be reported in the Event Viewer in 15 minutes - I'll report my findings when available ... (but go to sleep, LucF!)
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I will, see you tomorrow ;-)
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LucF I know your sleeping so I thought I would help out !

OK this might sound trivial but I think it is necessary !

just follow along item by item........

two PC's
printer is connected to one of them with USB
so with that in mind........
first

-----------------------------------
Configure the PC's
-----------------------------------
go to the network adapter propeties on each PC
click install
select protocol
and choose
NetBEUI
Add Protocol

make sure
file and print sharing is enabled
client for microsoft networking is enabled
netbeui is enabled

now go to Internet Protocol TCP/IP and select properties
set to obtain IP automatically and obtain DNS settings automatically
all other TABS for now leave as default values.

now check your connectivity settings
in the same box
click configure
make sure your data transmissions are set the same like "10baseT" ...this is a good solid starting point

you stated that your workgroups were already configured and you set up shares on both PC's so I wont bore you with that.

PC's are ready to go.................

---------------------------------------
Configure the Router
---------------------------------------
reset your router or do a hard boot
now login to your router 192.168.1.2 or whatever it is...
Select the type of connection you have to the outside world, ISDN, CABLE, DSL

the only important factors for now is
to set DHCP enable and select a valid address pool that you would like to use
I think LinkSys uses a defualt of 50 IP's which is fine.

Router is ready to go....................

----------------------------------------------
Live Connections !
----------------------------------------------
reboot both PC's and soft boot Router
you should see now the PC1 and PC2 under your
Entire Network > Workgroup icon on both PC's

now go to your printer properties on the PC it is connected to and select to make this available as a share
enter share name --- HOMEPRINTER   or whatever
click apply

on the other pc go to the priters folder and select add new printer
Network Printer
Select  HOMEPRINTER on PC1
apply

Once this is going when you install your firewall ( Just like LucF said ) you will have to enter the address pool into your trusted access zone or share zone
like this:
192.168.2.2-192.168.2.50
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
that was a step by step example of a pretty good home network ,
which included
an ISP address ( the WAN )
a router ( the NAT translation ) 192.x.x.x
two PC's with the same Protocols and Adapter settings
and a Printer.
oh ya,
and a future firewall  -- definatly wanted - by the way you can use your router as a firewall in the advanced settings setup !
this would be a hardware firewall vs. software firewall

Welcome to Networking :)

Like I said I think it sounds a bit trivial but this will ( I hope ) get you up and running

thanks,
wtrmk74

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by:jeffreywsmith
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Hi wtrml74 & thanks for your response.  You have given me quite a list to go through & I will come back to that momentarily - I wanted to finish posting a comment I was working on when your post came in relative to where I was with LucF's last instructions (items 1-3 below) & questions on your response follow:

1) Not sure what I was supposed to see after looking at Event Viewer but there are no new messages generated under the System folder since I ran the "ipconfig /registerdns" on both PC's (although there are a number of error messages there from earlier in the day and previously ...)

2) I also just tried pinging TAD & \\TAD\C$ again but still getting "Unknown Host" error ...

3) Unanswered from earlier: "BTW, you said earlier that it made a difference that ZA wasn't installed yet on the laptop but didn' t elaborate ... should I try to find a way to do this now? Actually, I was waiting until I got the network running so I could copy the ZA download to the laptop (if necessary)  ..."

Questions/comments on wtrml74's response:

I didn't go through your whole list sequentially but I did read over it and did the following which seems to have had some results: I installed the NETBEUI protocol on both PC's & I believe this is what allows me to see the laptop now (yes!) - although I am still having some issues (see CONTINUING ISSUE below); I also tried to follow your advice above:

"now check your connectivity settings
in the same box
click configure
make sure your data transmissions are set the same like "10baseT" ...this is a good solid starting point"

When I clicked on Configure, trying to find something that looks like "data transmissions", I clicked on the Advanced Tab|Link Speed/Duplex Mode (closest I could find) and it was set to "Auto Negotiate" on the Desktop & to "Auto Mode" on the laptop. I made no changes here.  Although while here in the Advanced Tab, I checked the value for "Network Address" on the Desktop and it indicated "Not Present"  - I seem to recall that at one time, this value had been set to the same value as my computer name so I typed that value in for both PC's.  Don't know if this had any impact on being able to see the laptop or not but just reporting what I did.

I was also able to connect to the printer from the laptop & print from there (yes!) but I was surprised that I didn't have to install the printer drivers on the laptop (other advice I had seen had led me to believe I would have to do that ...)

CONTINUING ISSUE? - Well, it seems to be working better now but when I first got this working where I could see the laptop and mapped the drive, I then tried to open an Excel file from the laptop over the network by double-clicking on it but it seemed to hang in the process & I went to Task Manager which reported not responding & when I tried to kill it, I got an error message about not being able to end the task (I forget the details now but I think it said something about debugging?).  Anyway, several MINUTES later, the file finally opened on the desktop.  I guess maybe everything is working OK now, but I am not sure yet ... (that slow response time on the initial file worried me some ...).  OK, wtrml74, I didn't go through your instructions step-by-step but things seem to be working although I would be interested in your comments on this post or anything else you think I should know here (especially any security concerns that may exist with my set-up) - other than that, I will try this out and report back tomorrow to see if I can close this issue.  Thanks for your help!!

Jeff


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Advanced Tab|Link Speed/Duplex Mode > auto negotiate is fine but forcing to use the same Media Type is preferred,
this could cause your latency problem with shared files

your answer is yes that is it...
sometimes listed differently for different manufactures :)

printer does not need to install drivers on laptop because it doesn't reside there
you are using a Peer to Peer Network and it tunnels thru your desktop to PRINT

Q's
Now that everything is communicating correctly...
go thru the list as described to get a better understanding on the components of your network.

as far as security goes...
well your protected from detection by the Network Address Translation ( NAT Router )
I would change one setting so your Unique Computer Identifier will not be detected as well...
Disable NETBIOS
go to your network adapter properties again and go to
Internet Protocol TCP/IP
Properties
Advanced
WINS
disable NETBIOS
what this does is block ports 137-139 to the outside world
which is your personal information and much more
so "you" can't be detected from the outside world
got to this website created by Steve Gibson - Security Expert
and go thru the Port Diagnostics to see what is vulnerable to the outside from your computer
https://grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2
This site is truely a work of art!

and
A good Anti-Virus program is one of the major components to a well oiled machine.


Hope that helps some,
go thru the checklist I sent you

thanks,
wtrmk74
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Thanks, wtrmk74 - I have a few follow-up questions, though :)

Advanced Tab|Link Speed/Duplex Mode - If I am understanding you correctly, I should change this to a common, specific setting for both PC's rather than letting "Auto" take care of it? If so, I should attempt to find the highest speed common to both (in my case, this would be "100 Mbps/full duplex" on the desktop and "100 Full Mode" on the laptop (other options with half duplex/mode & 10 Mbps were also available), correct?

I have disabled NETBIOS over TCP/IP.  I am running Norton AV 2004 & had previously checked out Steve Gibson's great site but thanks for the tips anyway.

I will go through the rest of your list but I am encouraged that things seem to be working here. THANKS to both of you for your help (I have been tearing my hear out for a few days here!) - I am going to try and re-boot and see if everything sticks. I will come back to close out this question later in the day.

Jeff
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by:Luc Franken
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wtrmk74, thank you for taking my night shift ;-)

jeffreywsmith, I see you made a lot of progress in the time I was asleep (you're probably sleeping now)
It took me a lot of time reading trough all messages.

First of all, I also think GRC.com is a great site (have you read the story about chasing the hacker "Wicked", I truly loved that story....)

Just to recall:
- Network is now working, both on IP-address and Computer name.
- Printer is working
- Opening an Excel file goes slowly

You're right on the Link speed, use the fastest one. "Auto" can give some problems especially with poor grade cables or long distances. (at my home I even have one computer that can't go faster than 10Mbit/s (using ISDN cable, that was the only thing available in my home at that moment, still have to change it for other cable)
If you can, set it to 100Mbps/full duplex that's the fastest connection possible with your networkcards I assume.

I'm really glad you got it working now.

LucF
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Hi LucF,

Thanks for your kind thoughts & all your help.  No, I haven't checked out Steve Gibson's "Wicked" but I will look for it.

I have configured the network adapters LAN connection to use the maximum values on both machines (100 Mbps/Full) - I have to say things seem like they are running a little slow but nothing I can put my fiinger on yet - if it continues to be an issue, anything you would suggest that might be the culprit?

Also, would you mind addressing an unanswered question from earlier: "you said earlier that it made a difference that ZA wasn't installed yet on the laptop but didn' t elaborate ... should I do this now?

I will go ahead and close this out now, though - you two were both great & I appreciate your help - now, I will try and find a way to choose the answers and award points - may be a little arbitrary because I think you both helped but it's hard to weight intelligently, so hope no offense is taken.

Best regards,

Jeff
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>>No, I haven't checked out Steve Gibson's "Wicked" but I will look for it.
http://www.grc.com/dos/grcdos.htm and
http://www.grc.com/dos/drdos.htm
This guy (Gibson) really knows his stuff

>>you said earlier that it made a difference that ZA wasn't installed yet on the laptop but didn' t elaborate ... should I do this now?
I meant this the other way around as you interpreted it. As long as the network doesn't work, you should leave it disabled, after you've solved that (like you have now) you can enable (install) it.

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Just clarifying here, LucF - you are using the terms enable/install interchangably here but I don't understand the use of "enable" here - I meant that I have not installed ZoneAlarm on the laptop yet (so I don't really know what there is to "enable" here) - should I do a separate install of ZoneAlarm on the laptop?  

If so:
- Would I need to "copy" (or setup) any of the Trusted sites from the Desktop to the Laptop as part of that process?  
- Is there anyway that ZA can be maintained at the network level for both machines (i.e., so I don't have to update both machines for new releases and perhaps more importantly, so that any parameters that are established on one PC can be shared with the other (rather than having to "discover" for itself the same "lessons" I learned on the other PC)?  (I could be getting off topic here & maybe should even bring this up in a ZA forum ...)

Thanks,

Jeff
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I should have explained that one better.... :-(
Now the network is running, you can install ZA on the laptop (and enable it afterwards) and Enable it again on your desktop.....

> Would I need to "copy" (or setup) any of the Trusted sites from the Desktop to the Laptop as part of that process?  
You should set it to the same as I mentioned above on both computers (so they trust each other)

>Is there anyway that ZA can be maintained at the network level for both machines
Not that I know of... Maybe wtrmk74 knows a way to do this.

LucF

p.s. again, this was the last post for today 0.10 u again.... :-( I really have to learn to go to bed earlier......
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Ok - thanks again, LucF - you've been a big help!!

Jeff
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Hi Jeff
Hi LucF - We all get wrapped up with the late hours on-line :)

If your still a little bit shaky on the whole firewall issue...
basically your network needs to function first
which we accomplished....

if you select to install a software firewall ( which you have )
now you can install the software on both machines
set it active ( or run as service ) ( or enable )
whatever the option is to make it function in the background.

add the IP address pool to the trusted group ( or share ) inside the firewall on both PC's

and your done!

I would recommend doing some research on other ports to block with your firewall.

PORT ASSIGNMENTS AND DESCRIPTIONS
http://www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers

TOP 20 VULNERABILITY LIST
http://www.sans.org/top20/#ports

Security is all up to you and how defined you would like it to be.

Latency Issue!
- is all your cable connecting everything together CAT5e certified ?
- is there any applications running in the background that shouldn't be
check this list against items in your task manager
this is a list of system items that are considered non threatening!
http://www.horseplay.demon.co.uk/windows_2000_commands.html

thanks,
wtrmk74
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Thanks again, wtrmk74 - you have given me a load of homework to do here :) but I appreciate the leads & will check them out.

Best,

Jeff
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Jeff, LucF,
Thanks for your patience in reading my posts !

LucF - take care I'll see your around the site!

thanks
wtrmk74
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by:Luc Franken
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You might want to take a look at this:

Some Programs May Be Slow When Accessing Files on a Network Share
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=326826
Seems like there is a fix for it, but you'll have to buy it (probably it will be fixed in SP5)

>LucF - take care I'll see your around the site!
That's for sure, we both operate at the same TA's ;-)

LucF
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Thanks, LucF - I will add this to my homework, too!

Best,

Jeff
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;-)
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Sending a Secure fax is easy with eFax Corporate (http://www.enterprise.efax.com). First, Just open a new email message.  In the To field, type your recipient's fax number @efaxsend.com. You can even send a secure international fax — just include t…
This video explains how to create simple products associated to Magento configurable product and offers fast way of their generation with Store Manager for Magento tool.

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