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Network hardware problems!

Posted on 2004-03-24
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Last Modified: 2013-12-07
Trying to add a XP-Pro computer to a network just to share the internet connection.  Currently, there are about 12 computers running off a hodge-podge of hubs, routers???  It can see/access shared folders in all the other PCs but cannot get on the internet.  The same is true for pinging - it can't find the servers for web addresses.  Don't know all the specifics about how it was was set up since it was done a long time ago (5 years) and no one there knows anything about it.  I've pretty much ruled out software problems, which I'm most familiar with, and am pretty sure it's a hardware issue, which I'm not so familiar with.  I brought it back to my office (which has the same type of network) and it immediately connected.  However, in their office, even when I've tried moving it to different hubs, switching cables, etc., it gives me the same problem everywhere.  What am I missing?  What should I be looking for?  

Thanks!
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Question by:annkeat
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by:Greenclock
ID: 10672383
Sounds like there is no DNS running. I would guess you are receiving an IP Address from a DHCP server on the network.  Router could be DHCP server, run the command below.  Maybe you could post the results

type IPCONFIG /ALL  at the command prompt and see if any IP address are listed for DNS servers.  
If no DNS servers are listed then this is the problem.  If you know what these should be then you can enter them manually into the TCPIP settings of the machine you are using.

Post info, and I will try my best to tell you the next step....

GC
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Author Comment

by:annkeat
ID: 10672546
I'll be back there in 30 min.- I'll definitely check that out.  But 2 questions immediately come to mind - Why would it work fine on the network at my office but not at theirs?  And why wouldn't any of the other 12 computers on their network have this same problem?  
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by:glenn_1984
ID: 10672552
Go to a PC that works and see how network properties are set up...including DNS and WINS.
Copy the information into the new PC...except, if assigning IP addresses make sure you use one that is not being used.

Most likely you need
1. The Gateway IP of the router
and maybe
2. The DNS numbers of the ISP
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Author Comment

by:annkeat
ID: 10673081
I had an IP address, but no DNS servers.  I pulled up the configuration on a working computer and plugged in all the numbers, but nothing...

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by:Greenclock
ID: 10673111
Within DHCP you can specify what information is provided when an IP address is issued.  In addition to the IP Address you would provide; Subnet Mask, Gateway (or Default Router), DNS Servers, Wins Servers, Domain Name, etc

Under Microsoft Windows you can override some of these value while still being provided with and IP address.  As glenn_1984 has suggested, visiting a working machine is a good way to gather the information.

Worst case could be that there network is only allowing these machines out onto the internet because the IP Addresses have been specifically allowed through the router or maybe even a firewall.

It could also be that the a Internet Proxy server is in use.  1) To restrict access, maybe by userid or 2) just to cache web pages.  You could check internet explore for these settings.  If you get the proxy setting and it prompts for a user id and password then option 1) is in use.

There are so many things that could be causing the issues you are having.  Some are easy to get round. some are not.  If you have the access to change things then you are in luck.


GC
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by:Greenclock
ID: 10673127
Sorry, got the other message type beofre you reply...Still applys.. but try the bit below.

Note down the IP address, Gateway, and subnet mask from one of the machine and manual enter these on your machine.  Remember to switch off or disconnet the machine you have "Borrowed" the IP infor from.

GC
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Author Comment

by:annkeat
ID: 10673306
I entered all the IP addresses, default gateway, dns servers, etc. Still nothing.  Proxy servers are not in use.

One thing to note - I entered in the other computer's IP address and when I restarted it, it immediately gave me an error saying there was a conflict with its IP address.  That computer is set up to have its adresses automatically assigned, so why would it be looking for the exact same address over and over???
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Expert Comment

by:bubz0r
ID: 10673323
First off, try creating a network setup disk on a working Windows XP machine and using that on the broken machine:

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/hnw_create_network_setup_disk.mspx


-----
If the above does'nt work:
-----

Go to the computer that is'nt working and type:

ipconfig /all > C:\output1.txt

Go to a computer that is working and type:

ipconfig /all > C:\output2.txt

Copy the contents of C:\ouput1.txt and C:\output2.txt here.

Also try matching the "Control Panel > Internet Options > Connections tab > Lan Settings" of a working machine to the broken machine.
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Author Comment

by:annkeat
ID: 10673371
I've tried the setup disk many times....

The one that's WORKING:

Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : debbie
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) PRO/100+ Management Adapter
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-90-27-BC-5D-9D
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.168.5
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.168.1
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.168.1
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 199.0.216.22
                                            205.177.10.10

        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:48:10 PM
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:48:10 PM

NOT WORKING:

Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : pat
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : mixed
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : NEATGEAR FA411 FAST ETHERNET PC CARD
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-40-F4-22-1B-C5
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.168.11
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.168.1
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.168.1
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 199.0.216.22
                                            205.177.10.10



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Assisted Solution

by:bubz0r
bubz0r earned 100 total points
ID: 10673555
Are all the working machines setup with static IP's?  i.e. "Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No" is always set to "No"?

If so, it is probably like what Greenlock suggested and your router/firewall is set to allow certain IP's through.  It may also be setup with MAC address filtering (mac address = "Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-40-F4-22-1B-C5").

Try shutting down the above working machine (Pat's machine?) and setting the broken machine up to the same settings as Pat's including the IP address of 192.168.168.11 and see if it works.

If that does'nt work, the router/firewall might be setup with mac address filtering so you'll need borrow Pat's network card and put it in the broken machine, then set it up with all Pat's settings and see if that works.
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Assisted Solution

by:ntnsystems
ntnsystems earned 100 total points
ID: 10673563
Always start with the simplest solutions. Turn off the Windows XP firewall while troubleshooting.  You can rule out DNS issues by trying to ping computers by IP address starting locally and moving toward the Internet.

(1) While troubleshooting, turn off the Windows XP Firewall in the Advanced tab of the Local Area Connection Settings
(2) Ping localhost (127.0.0.1)... should be working already.
(3) Ping the default gateway (192.168.168.1)
(4) Ping a DNS server (205.177.10.10)
(5) 'nslookup 205.177.10.10' should return the hostname of the DNS server if you have reverse DNS.  By the way, 199.0.216.22 is not resolving for me. Try using ns.cais.com (205.177.10.10) as the primary and ns2.cais.com (205.252.14.129) as the secondary DNS server.
(6) If step 5 worked, try 'nslookup ns.cais.com' to see if it returns an IP address.
(7) You can use the 'route print' command to check if the routing table has any routing problems, especially after setting the ethernet card to obtain a DHCP IP address.  The table should output something like this:

Network Destination        Netmask          Gateway       Interface  Metric
        127.0.0.0        255.0.0.0        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1       1
     192.168.168.0    255.255.255.0     192.168.168.1    192.168.168.1       10
     192.168.168.11  255.255.255.255        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1       10
   192.168.168.255  255.255.255.255     192.168.168.1    192.168.168.1       10
        224.0.0.0        240.0.0.0     192.168.168.1    192.168.168.1       10
  255.255.255.255  255.255.255.255     192.168.168.1    192.168.168.1       1

You can also use the 'route' command to statically assign routes or delete extraneous results.

Question: Do you only have one router acting as the default gateway, physically connected to the WAN (Internet)? and one hub?

 

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Author Comment

by:annkeat
ID: 10673628
There's at least 4 hubs/routers/splitters running off the internet connection.  

I can successfully ping the local host and default gateway, but DNS servers don't pull anything up.  

Route print pulled up a bunch of zeros for the first row destination and netmask.

Could it be a firewall somewhere?  
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Expert Comment

by:ntnsystems
ID: 10673881
The 0.0.0.0 is normal to see in a route print.  The others are probably right with this MAC address filtering in the router or the router not accepting the IP address as a client. Spoofing the MAC address of a working Ethernet card while the real card is offline could help diagnose that part.  Setting the IP address to a working IP address while the working computer is offline could troubleshoot the IP filter idea.  The hub should not interfere with this problem, as it is basically dumb and will usally pass anything. Routers are usually capable of filtering on several levels, so this is definitely worth looking into.
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Expert Comment

by:bubz0r
ID: 10674020
(1) While troubleshooting, turn off the Windows XP Firewall in the Advanced tab of the Local Area Connection Settings

Its usually safe to assume the XP firewall was off due to him being able to browse file shares on the network.

(2) Ping localhost (127.0.0.1)... should be working already.

You'd assume so as its communicating with other PC's and the DHCP server just fine.

(3) Ping the default gateway (192.168.168.1)

The DHCP server he is getting an address from is also the gateway, same IP - so we can assume the ping would work just fine.

(4) Ping a DNS server (205.177.10.10)

The DNS servers are fine as the other machines are using them.

(5) 'nslookup 205.177.10.10' should return the hostname of the DNS server if you have reverse DNS.  By the way, 199.0.216.22 is not resolving for me. Try using ns.cais.com (205.177.10.10) as the primary and ns2.cais.com (205.252.14.129) as the secondary DNS server.

199.0.216.22 might be a restricted server - as in only people with certain IP's can use it to keep speeds up for the ISP's customers.  My response to (4) applies here also.

---

When you say the hubs/routers/splitters are all running off the internet connection, what exactly is the internet connection?  Is it a server or a modem/router or just a modem?

Try setting the DNS server to 192.168.168.1

"Could it be a firewall somewhere?"

Maybe, I've already supplied a way to find out.
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Expert Comment

by:bubz0r
ID: 10674059
"Setting the IP address to a working IP address while the working computer is offline could troubleshoot the IP filter idea.  

Routers are usually capable of filtering on several levels, so this is definitely worth looking into."

Could have sworn I already wrote that.
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Author Comment

by:annkeat
ID: 10678386
Thanks for everyone's help so far.  I can't believe how frustrating this has been.

I tried entering the working computers addesses/settings into the non-working and then turning it off.  I'm still not able to get the non-working to connect to the internet.  When I start up the working computer again it errors and says there's a conflict with the IP address.  When I run ipconfig again, it shows it has it original IP address again.  

Last night while I as working on this, I brought in another laptop, ran the network setup wizard off another machine, and plugged it into the same hub.  The same thing happens!!!  It can see the other computers, but it can't get on the internet!  Am I going crazy???

I've made a couple calls today to their former tech people.  I just want to know how this was originally set up - I've replaced 3 other computers in the past with NO problems so I just can't understand why 2 different laptops won't work!  I also tried moving them to different locations, but nothing works....
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Assisted Solution

by:wyliecoyoteuk
wyliecoyoteuk earned 50 total points
ID: 10680076
just an attempt to clarify:

192.168.168.1 is the DHCP server and the Gateway.
This is probably a router, it will be connected to a phone line, ISDN,T1, etc, and will be the last item in the chain of hubs/switches/etc. (in fact it may only have one network cable going to it, and one wan cable leaving it)

Depending on the model, it may filter by Mac address ( the actual unique addresses of the network cards in the PCs),
IP address, hostname, workgroup name, etc.
But.. it is more likely to be a client limit.
Some routers will only allow a certain number of clients to be connected at the same time, it varies, but is often between 6 and 25.
If you use it as a DHCP server, it may limit the number of IP addresses to the DHCP range.

DHCP clients keep their IP addresses for a length of time (called a lease) this is often 2-3 days, and is retained even when the computer is switched off, which is why you get the IP address conflict.

The fact that you can see the other computers probably means you have NetBeui running as well as TCP/IP.
Netbeui is non-routable, for the internet you need TCP/IP.

I would try typing in 192.168.168.1 into a web browser, will probably pull up the router webpage, might give you a clue about what model, etc.

tracert 192.168.168.1 and
tracert 205.177.10.10 (which should go via the gateway)may also help


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Expert Comment

by:Greenclock
ID: 10680234
Put the second DNS entry into you machine (205.177.10.10).  Forget about the other one.  It is not a valid IP address. Well I don't think so, correct me if I am wrong but  I can't connect to it from my internet connection.

If you have both it could just be taking a bit of time to timeout the primary DNS entry and move to the secondary address.

Good luck..

GC
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Author Comment

by:annkeat
ID: 10680472
Wylie - thanks for clarifying some things.  

I just found out they are using a SonicWall Soho/10 firewall.  It was installed 5 years ago and no one's been administering it since.  I pulled up some info on it and found out its a 10 user firewall.  Could that be why I can't get any other computers online?  
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by:Greenclock
ID: 10680756
That will be the reason.  Log on to a few machines and type IPCONFIG /Release.  Then switch off.

Get the number to below 10 and try you machine.

GC
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by:
Greenclock earned 250 total points
ID: 10680856
If you have taken on the support role for this network, and the Firewall has not been supported for a number of years, you first action should be to see what the situation is with updates and fixes.  This is effectivley the your first line of defence against intruders, and keeping the firewall updated and patched should be A PRIORITY.

It also looks like the user population is expanding and it might be possible that the user limit needs to be increased.  .

Take a look at the SonicWall Website - http://www.sonicwall.com/ it has some useful info.

GC

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Author Comment

by:annkeat
ID: 10681333
Thanks - I will try that tonight once people have gone home and will post my results...
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Author Comment

by:annkeat
ID: 10716001
Thanks for everyone's help.  We're still having to manually enter the IP addresses, but now that we know they can't go over 10 users, it's working a lot better.

Of course, the past week of hell could've been prevented if anybody over there knew what they were talking about!!!
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by:Greenclock
ID: 10718309
Thanks for the points and the Grade, glad to be of assistance.

GC
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by:wyliecoyoteuk
ID: 10726404
I second that:)
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