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Reformatted Harddrive with no luck.  Invalid Boot Disk when trying to boot alone, and works fine with another HD.

Posted on 2004-03-28
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Last Modified: 2007-12-19
I formatted my harddrive about two nights ago.  I took my harddrive (80GB Maxtor) out of my main computer and out it in my other one.  My secondary PC was running XP Pro aswell.  I formatted via CMD then:  Format D: /fs:ntfs .  Asked me to open handles or somthing or rather so I did.  Then it formatted and I then installed XP Pro.  All went swell and it booted up.  However, it would only boot up if it was with my other harddrive,  The option to choose which XP to boot off comes up and both work.  When I take out my freshly installed XP on my 80GB and set it to master on either computer I get INVALID BOOT DI SK - oh joy.  I've reformatted on my secondary computer 2 more times, tried install PRO again, I then tried just regular XP Home, no luck either time.  I then tried formatting it on my main computer and trying XP home on that.  No luck.  I've tried setting the jumper settings on my harddrive differently, no luck.  Plus if my computer worked prior dosen't seem logical that they would need to be moved.  Anyway, there back to default now.  I have tried setting the main 80 GB to master on both CPU's as well AS slave.  Both alone and with the accompanying harddrive.  It only works with the other one.  =/  I've tried booting the XP disk and going into Recovery mode,  I tried 'Fixmbr and fixboot' both completed sucsessfully but did not fix the problem.  Then this morning, one of the prongs (the little gold pins that fit in the IDE cables) the last one on the bottom right... or maybe left broke off.  Just one though.  However it hasn't seemed to effect it so far.  It still craps out when when alone, and still works fine when in company.  I'm about ready to head to Best Buy and get one of their crappy 40gb 8mb buffer harddrives.  Since I know that the 80 will work when it has a buddy.  Any ideas would be appriecated.  Thanks.

-Greg (WarTowels)
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Question by:WarTowels
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by:buckeyes33
ID: 10699388
why don't you try setting the drive up as Cable Select and see if it works.
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by:slink9
ID: 10699444
I wouldn't expect it to need a buddy to work with.  The fact that one of the pins seems to be missing is bothersome, though.  There is normally a pin missing but it is not one on the end.  The 11th spot from the left on the bottom row is missing on a drive I just looked at.
Try the following.

Put the drive as the only hard drive in the computer and set it as master.  Make sure you have an 80-wire cable connecting it.  Boot on a 98 CD and run FDISK to remove all partitions.
Boot on the XP CD and make sure that it is the original CD, not a copy.  Go into the disk manager and create and format the partition.  Now install XP and see how it goes.

The BIOS does see the whole drive, doesn't it?
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Author Comment

by:WarTowels
ID: 10699934
Setting it up as Cable Select??  Im not familiar with that terminology if you could elaborate it would be helpful.

-slink9
It wasn't working before the pin broke off, and it is continuing to not work after, at the same ammount of not-working-ness. ^_^   Bios recognized its presence both before and after the pin breaking.  Heres what I have to work with:  A windows 95 instal cd (somewhere in the rubble), a Windows ME install cd, a VPR Matrix reinstallation of XP Home Cd - now this only gives you two options, 1.  A factory restore of windows settings 2.  A quick format and reinstall and 3.  a Format and reinstall.  I can't boot off my windows Pro Cd... however I imagine I can use a floppy boot disk and then Install it that way, or I can use the harddrive im on now to boot into windows and then run the setup.  Once in setup I can go to the Recovery thing... where it brings me to the DOS prompt F:\WINDOWS  or I can choose to delete my partion, formate the hd or just install, or do all 3.  I can get ahold of a 98 / 98SE cd i imagine sometime this week, however I don't see how that should be nessisary.   *note that since the pin has broken nothing has changed in the operation of the drive.  Bios still see's it, I can still format and install windows on it, and I can still boot with it via a buddy.

-GW
(Thanks for the quick responses.)
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by:buckeyes33
ID: 10699954
ok I can do that.

On the back of your hard drive there are jumpers settings.  There is one for Master, slave, and Cable select.  Most likely on your label of your hard drive it shows the jumper settings for each of the settings.  set the jumper to the cable select setting.

Does your hard drive have these settings on the label?  If not can you give me the model number and i will get you the settings.
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Author Comment

by:WarTowels
ID: 10700422
There is a little picture on it, its a little confusing because it shows it as if they were single jumpers, not doubles?  Hope im making sense, the modle is Maxtor D740X-6L.  Theres PK, CS,  and DS I don't have a clue which one is cable.  So... yeah.  Thank you guys for the speedy responses.

-Greg
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by:buckeyes33
buckeyes33 earned 75 total points
ID: 10700479
here this link will help you better than the top of your drive.


http://maxtor.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/maxtor.cfg/php/enduser/olh_adp.php?p_faqid=602
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by:buckeyes33
ID: 10700484
you should configure it to the picture in the top right corner of the settings pictures.
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by:WarTowels
ID: 10700531
=/  Thats what its on.  What now?
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by:buckeyes33
ID: 10700561
Then put it on master like Slink has said.
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by:audiodog
ID: 10700792
WarTowels,

The problem you are having with the installation of Windows XP is more than likely related to the NTLDR file.  During the installation of Windows 2000 or XP, the Setup checks all installed hardware.  If theinstallation detects that an NT-based OS, or another Windows-based operating system is installed, it will create a dual-boot environment.  Since you already have XP installed, Setup has probably determined that it is not necessary to install all the required boot files for the second hard drive. The fixmbr and fixboot will not repair the ability to boot into the OS simply because the drive that is booting is the one that had XP installed first.  In the dual-boot menu, the initial drive has the line added to allow the choice as to which operating system to initiate.  You could attempt to manually remove the line, but you would then need to manually install the missing files into the second drive.

The easiest solution to your problem is to remove the drive with XP already installed, and install XP with only the new drive installed.  If your hard drive's jumper settings are at default from the factory, then they would both be assigned as Master.  If you assign the one you want to install XP in as a single jumper Master, and simply remove the power and IDE cable from the original XP drive, you can now run Setup again.  Setup should not detect Windows XP already installed since it should not detect the drive.  If so, then Setup will install all the necessary files for a single-boot drive, and this should resolve your problem.  The same can be accomplished using the Recovery Console, but since you just installed XP, why not do it once more cleanly to prevent any possible conflicts?

If you require any additional clarification on this matter, please feel free to contact me.  Audiodog.
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by:WarTowels
ID: 10700899
Praise the lord.  Someone knows whats up.  OK.  I tried to install XP Home in my main computer (not the one im on now) with only the harddrive thats giving me problems connected.  It installed seamlessly and I then got a NTLDR missing error.  I don't know why I'd get that error... Heres what I'm going to try in the meantime, and see what happens.  I'm going to format my harddrive while still in this computer via CMD  F: Format /fs:ntfs I'll then remove the drive and put it in my main computer and proceed with the full installation of windows XP home.  We'll see if it works.  Else what should I do?  Persay I get the NTLDR error once more, what then?  Thanks to everyone.

-G
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by:WarTowels
ID: 10700921
Ah... so I just tried F: Format /fs:ntfs and it said it couldn't do it becuase the volume was being run by another operation?  Then asked if I wanted to dismouth the volume, but all the open handles to this volume would be invalid.  Would this have caused the NTLDR error?  Cause' last time I formatted this I said ok to opening the handles, and thats when I got the NTLDR error.

-Me...
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by:audiodog
ID: 10701124
WarTowels,

I have to admit that you lost me.  You refer to F as a Drive letter designation, but not what drive it actually is in use.  If you are attempting to reformat the hard drive from within the hard drive's OS, in this case XP, you will receive both a request to dismount the drive as well reference to the drive being in use.  In order for the drive to be formatted, it must be dismounted, or disconnected from access by the OS if you prefer.  Understand that I am referring to the Windows OS, and not the version of DOS.  Once access is disabled to Windows, the drive can then only be accessed via DOS.  DOS then has the ability to do a number of things to the drive through the use of utilities.  Unfortunately I am unaware of how you are accessing the command prompt.

When attempting to install any OS, you must first be certain as to the type of partition you wish to use.  You then need to record the type of partition onto the storage volume.  After creating the Partition Table you need to map the physical storage space of the drive's internal cylinders/platters.  Although reformatting informs you that "ALL DATA WILL BE ERASED!", it doesn't always happen.  If you are simply reformatting the same partition, formatting will not necessarily do anything more than verify the space already allocated within the Partition Table.  It will however delete all indexes in the NTFS Partition Table.  What this means is that it might, and I stress might, allow Setup to simply correct the Partition's indexes.  The question again returns to how you are accessing the command prompt?

If you have disconnected all drives, excluding the drive you wish to install XP in, turn the computer on.  When the Power-On Self-Test, or P.O.S.T. screen appears, and this could be a company logo, enter the BIOS by pressing the appropriate key in accordance with your system's or motherboard's manual.  In the BOOT Screen, you need to set the first boot device as your CD-ROM Drive.  Place the installation CD in the CD-Drive, and then close the CD Drawer.  In the MAIN Screen, verify that only one drive is detected by the BIOS.  Then save your changes and exit the BIOS with the appropriate option.  Your computer will restart, and should successfully boot into the CD-ROM to create a virtual disk.  Follow the steps accordingly, especially if your drive is connected to a RAID or IDE Controller card.  After Setup has detected the drive correctly, it will ask if you wish to install XP on the Partition already present.  Instead choose the option to delete the partition.  Then choose the option to create a partition and format using NTFS.  The installation should now succeed.

When XP is installed over XP, it does not ignore all stored data.  Instead XP reinstalls all files, but leaves the boot configuration as is.  Should you feel the need to use the command prompt, you can do so using the Recovery Console after booting into the CD-ROM.  You then have the option to manually install/expand the NTLDR file. The Recovery Console information can be located at:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;307654&Product=winxp

 However you MUST also change the Boot.INI file to a single-boot configuration.  You can use the bootcfg command to modify the Boot.INI file hile in DOS.  There is a bulletin for this on Microsoft's website concerning the Boot.INI:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;289022&Product=winxp



Again, without knowing how you are accessing the command prompt, I can only provide you with generalized information.  Dismounting the drive removes access to the drive through Windows not DOS.  If you attempt to dismount the drive while accessing either DOS or Windows from the drive to format, it should fail.  Removing or disabling the drive handlers, or device and virtual device drivers for the hard drive, will only remove access through Windows.  If you attempt to format by accessing DOS stored within the hard drive formatting will fail because DOS cannot overwrite itself when in use, or at least should not.  What bothers me is the location of the drive letter in your command.  Typically the command should look something like this:

F: Format C: /fs:ntfs

The first drive letter representing the location of the DOS utility to be run, and the second drive letter representing the Partition or Drive to be reformatted.  If the drive you are attempting to format is F, and the drive where the DOS utility is stored is F, then the format will fail.  Running Setup will then cause XP to reinstall the OS, but keeping the same boot information.  If you typed the command just as you did here, the drive would in fact be identified as mounted since it is possibly attempting to format itself.  It is because I am uncertain as to how you are accessing DOS, and the location of the utility that I recommend you use DOS through the Installation CD.  In fact, if the BIOS reveals only one hard drive, and you delete the Partition during Setup, the chance of successfully reinstalling XP on the drive as a single-boot OS should be higher.  The reason is that Setup is handling the command which reduces the risk of mistyping the command, and deleting the Partition reduces the chance of XP simply trying to repair itself.

However if you wish to provide more information concerning your system's configuration, I might be better able to identify the conflict.  Audiodog.
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by:Griffon1426
ID: 10701755
I must admit that I didn't read through every response, but it doesn't look like this has been tried yet.  Have you tried leaving the HD in your main computer and booting from the Windows XP CD, and then formatting and installing Windows through the setup program?  If it doesn't recognize that there is an operating system on the drive, it should give you the option to create (or delete) the current partition(s) and to create, and format, a partition on which you can install Windows.  That is how I have always gone about the task.  If the hard drive works in the secondary computer, it suggests to me that there isn't anything wrong with the connectors.  If you're able to do everything through the one utility, I think that should make it work better, especially when you have it on your main computer so the hardware and everything can also be detected and installed at the same time.
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slink9 earned 100 total points
ID: 10702956
Hey wartowels,
There would have not been a second OS if you had done an FDISK and zapped the partitions as I suggested.  Are all of the CDs you mentioned originals?
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by:WarTowels
ID: 10706459
I'll try and explain as best I can.
C: Drive (which we shall call drive 1.) = working windows Xp drive on my secondary computer
F: Drive (which we shall call drive 2.) = the drive that im having trouble with.
---
I have in essance a best buy XP restore disk.  When it loads it has three options, and three options alone.  (I assume its a modified version of the normal XP cd.  To simplfy the process.)  The first option is a 'Non-destructive restoration of the windows files and some worthless utilites tacked on as well.  The secoond option is a quick format (NTFS) and then the installation  of XP Home.  The thrid is a full format NTFS and installation of Xp.
I also have a have a not so original Xp Pro disc.  (though it has worked perfect in the past on more than one computer, and when installed on drive 2 it will boot, given that drive 1 is present.)
---
Most recently I started up my secondary harddrive ( Drive 1) in safe mode, I then typed CMD in 'Start: Run'.  This is what it read C:\> F: Format \fs:ntfs  It then formatted fine.  I then shut down the computer and removed drive 2 (Drive F:) put it in my main computer and put in the best buy Xp Home cd (note* this isn't a computer from best buy) Having set the bios to start my cd drive first, it loaded right up.  It must have recognized that drive was blank, becuase instead of the three options, it went straight to installing windows.  Windows installed fine and upon rebooting I get the error message:  Invalid Boot Disk
Bios recognizes my harddrive as a Maxtor 76,### mb (80Gb).  I set the harddrive to load first and still nothing.  I tried the jumper setting on the harddrive on both Master and Cable Select.  Trying (for the hell of it) the harddrive on the secondary IDE plug in.  I continued to get Invalid Boot Disk.  I then tried booting to a old Windows 95 floppy Boot Disk, and it complained becuase the drive was in NTFS.  So at least it recognized that it was formated.
---
I've also tried the third option on the Best Buy Xp Home disk to do a Full Install while drive 2 was alone in my main computer.  Still nothing.
---
I've also tried my Win Xp PRO install by booting from drive 1, and then running Setup that way.  It installs fine and even lets me format it to NTFS if I want.  I've tried having it format and not.  It installs XP and then reboots.  Then still get the error.  I've tried the fixboot, and fixnbr and had them both "repaired".  That made no difference.
---
What I HAVEN'T tried is booting from a homemade XP Boot Disk and then trying to run the SETUP.exe on my XP Pro cd.  While drive 2 is in my main computer.  Worth trying?
---
Please note that everytime i've installed Xp, both Home and Pro, if I attached it as slave in my secondary computer when windows booted it would give me the dual operating choice menu and it would boot to XP then.  This has worked constitantly despite how I install it, and despite which way or in which computer.
---
Im rather perplexed on why the drive wouldn't work.  If you have an idea, please describe step by step how to fix it, so I can print it out and try.  Is there someway that I can wipe every single thing on the harddrive and then format it?  Would that even make a difference?  I can format via command prompt or via either Xp Cd, I don't really care.

Hope this clears up any confusion and helps you help me.  =)
-Greg

Thank you all for your time so far.  I really REALLY appriciate it.
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by:audiodog
audiodog earned 100 total points
ID: 10707828
Greg,

Let's start over again.  Simply formatting the hard drive will not always erase the data stored within the hard drive.  Your command line:  C:\> F: Format \fs:ntfs still confuses me, but this could simply be because I never tried to memorize how I access functions through DOS.  However I still want to say that it would seem that the command should read as follows:  C:\> Format F: \fs:ntfs  We will forget the DOS command for now, but I do want you to check your "syntax" for future reference.

Anyways, it seems that either the format has failed, or there is an error during the installation process.  If you went to the links I provided in my earlier answer, you can see how to use the Recovery Console from the CD to install the NTLDR file from the i386 folder using the expand command.  You can then use the bootcfg command to change the Boot.INI file, but you might also need to change or install the NTDetect or HAL.  However I have myself run into similar conflicts with hard drives, and your idea for "wiping" the data might be the best place to start.

Go to Maxtor's website, and there are three different utilities you can download.  There is a hard drive utility provided by OnTrack which has been customized for Maxtor drives, MaxBlast, and is available as a Windows or DOS Utility.  Install the Windows utility on the system with the working hard drive.  Install the Maxtor drive on the same system.  After entering XP, run the utility to verify that both drives are present.  If they are, choose the option to Write All Zeroes/Full Erase to the Maxtor drive using the OnTrack Utility, if available.  Using the Microsoft Management Console (MMC), after completion, verify that the drive does not have a Partition or drive letter.  Simply Right-Click on My Computer, click Manage, and then choose Disk Management under Storage in the left sidebar.  This enables you to overwrite all data on the Maxtor with zeroes, but at a much faster rate than DOS due to the Windows "handlers".  However I prefer DOS because it is more reliable.

For DOS, install the Maxtor in the system you wish to leave it in "permanently".  Install the other Utility from Maxtor, PowerMax, onto a Floppy Diskette.  Boot the system with the Maxtor into the Floppy Drive.  Run the Diagnostics to verify that the drive's integrity is correct.  Note - it is possible for firmware or physical damage to disallow the removal of some or all data within a hard drive.  It is also possible to fragment an NTFS Partition into a FAT12 and non-DOS partition.  If the Partition has been fragmented, or there is data that might be interfering with the installation still on the drive, the Diagnostics might produce an error code or request for an extended test.  If you look at the options, you will see there are two choices for "erasing" the drive's contents.

Let's get one thing understood before you go any further.  There is no such thing as "erase" when dealing with hard drives.  An actual erase requires the utilization of a counter-magnetic field to depolarize the magnetic storage material.  This is known as DeGaussing, and dueto the physical limitations inside the drive as well as the required strength of the counter-magnetic field, there are no DeGaussing heads located internally within the hard drive.  The reason that I am telling you this is because "erasing" is done by overwriting the data recorded in the drive.  Since we can only overwrite, and because certain areas of the drive are used more often than others, it is best to overwrite more than once.  So this is how I do it.

Choose the option to do a Quick Erase using PowerMax.  This should write zeroes to the first 200 sectors, and last sectors of the drive.  If successful, the drive can only be viewed in the RAW, or unwritten format.  Now do a Full Erase of the hard drive, and this will write zeroes to the entire drive from beginning to end.  Once done, do a Quick Erase once more.  Since we are working in DOS, or Caldera DOS, it will take approximately four or more hours.  Run the Diagnostic once more to verify that there are no errors detected within the hard drive.

You now have the choice to install the BestBuy Restore CD, but it might fail because it could be hardware dependent.  If the CD uses a drive image, it might also require a specific hardware configuration to install as a bootable OS.  So for testing purposes, use the other XP CD you have on-hand there.  Install the CD in the CD-ROM drive on the same system that the Maxtor will reside in for awhile, and it should be the same as the one running PowerMax.  Exit PowerMax, and restart your computer with the floppy removed.  If your BIOS is configured to search for additional bootable drives, it will find the CD-ROM.  If not, then change the settings in your BIOS so that IDE-0 is the first boot device, and the CD-ROM is the second.  Then allow the PC to locate the Installation CD.  BUT BE CERTAIN THAT THE JUMPERS ARE SET TO EITHER MATCH THE CORRESPONDING IDE CONNECTOR, OR USE CABLE SELECT TO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHICH CONNECTOR IS USED!

Run Setup choosing the option of creating an NTFS Partition and a Full Format.  Allow Setup to complete, and then see if the drive will boot correctly into XP.  If so great, but if not there is another option available to you using MaxBlast.

Install the Maxtor drive on the same system as the working/bootable drive.  Download and install MaxBlast to a floppy diskette.  Shut down the PC, and verify that the Maxtor is either Cable Select, Master or Slave;  BUT not the same as the original drive UNLESS THEY ARE BOTH CABLE SELECT.  Start the PC, and enter the BIOS to change the BOOT Assignment with the First device being the Floppy Drive, and the Second device being IDE-1 if the Maxtor is using the connector closest to the motherboard, or IDE-0 if the Maxtor is using the connector furthest away from the motherboard.  Place the MaxBlast floppy into the drive, and save and exit the BIOS to restart your computer.

When MaxBlast is running, you have the option to run utilities from the floppy.  In the Utility's Menu you can do a Quick Erase, then a Full Erase, and finally a Quick Erase.  After returning to the Menu, you can now create your NTFS Partition by choosing the "Setup Your Hard Disk" Menu.  Choose  the Maxtor Drive, and then your OS which in your case is Windows XP.  Now choose "Install Drive As New Boot Drive", and then Easy Installation if you intend to use the entire drive as a single partition.

Return to the Main Menu, and choose Utilties once more.  Now choose the option to "Copy Partition".  Choose the working drive as the Source, and the Maxtor as the destination.  MaxBlast will now copy all files from the bootable drive to the Maxtor, and this should allow the Maxtor to finally boot.  Once completed, shutdown the PC.

Place the Maxtor into the system you want it to remain in awhile.  Start the PC after having made certain that the jumper, connector, and IDE device all match in the BIOS to enable proper and timely booting.  If successful, the drive will bott into Windows but might stop before the logon.  If this happens, it is because the Product Activation is required due to significant changes in the hardware when compared to what is stored in the System's Registry and HAL.  You can attempt activation, or you can use either CD to reinstall/repair XP over itself if you wish to use a different activation code or version.  If one or both CD's cause it to fail to boot, then the CD might be preconfigured to identify specific hardware.  However coyping using the MaxBlast utility is only to verify that the Maxtor drive itself is not creating the conflict causing the Invalid Disk Error.

Regardless of what I specified, the techniques can be used on any machine.  However you must be certain that jumper settings, EIDE Cable connectors, and BIOS Drive Identification match to reduce the risk of an Invalid Boot Disk Error.  If you MUST copy the original drive to make the Maxtor bootable, simply delete or remove any files that you do not wish installed on the Maxtor.  However, AND I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH, Formatting a Drive does not correct any errors or information located in the Partition Table, other than available storage space.  Since the Partition information is usually located at the "Front" of the drive, this is the reason that I suggest two Quick Erases along with a Full Erase.  So on the chance there was an error in syntax, command, or the Partition, I suggest you use the Maxtor Utilities before attempting another installation.  As I stated, the utilities also provide you with an additional way to install XP.

However if you still have problems, write down each step as you perform them, and send the information here when done so I can review what was happening.  Audiodog.
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Author Comment

by:WarTowels
ID: 10715838
I was fooling around with a windows 95 boot disk, it would read becuase of my harddrives ntfs format, however I got it to boot to DOS.  Through DOS I ran FDISK, I was about to delete my partition when I went to a differenet option.  It wanted me to allocate which partion was to be active.  Ofcourse there was only one choice, that being my 76,000mb partion.  I choice (1) to activate it.  It asked me to reboot, I did.  It then loaded XP Home =)  Thank you all for your help.  I split up the points for the three who helped the most.  Thanks again.
-Greg
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by:buckeyes33
ID: 10716035
glad you got it running again.  :)

your welcome.
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