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PDF?

Posted on 2004-04-19
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If i create a pdf file with Acrobat 6.o will it open on reader 4.0, in  other words is it back word compatible.

IfI create catalogs for print in quark express or adobe  indesign with high resulotion images will i be able to save these out at a high enough resolution for print in PDF form

Also do PDF documents compress well and what do they compress the best e.g. images, what type of images, text...?

If someone has acrobat writer 4.0 can they make simple text changes and can one select font choices.

Is there any other advantages of using pdfs ina print/web design agency?

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Question by:jineti
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by:Karl Heinz Kremer
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You can save your files with Acrobat 4 compatiblity. You either set this in your Distiller job options, or you can use the PDF Optimizer (in Acrobat 6 Professional under the Advanced menu).

You need to set your Distiller job options so that it does not downsample images. This way, you will get the same resolution images that you had in your source document.

PDF documents compress very well: Acrobat uses different compression methods for different object types (e.g. text vs. BW images or color images). Again. the PDF optimizer or the Distiller job options allow you to select which compression method to use for different image types. You will get the smallest PDF files if you only have text in them. For grayscale or BW images Acrobat can use JBIG2 compression (which will not be compatible with Acrobat 4). This will give you the best possible compression. For color images you can use JPEG, which is a lossy compression mechanism.

There is no Acrobat Writer. The product is "Adobe Acrobat" (this is the full version). The full version does allow you to change a number of things in a PDF file. With the TouchUp Object tool you can change text and fonts. You need to make sure however that the fonts are available on the client machine. Touchup is only allowed if the font is available. It's not sufficient to embed the font (actally with Acrobat 4 and 5 it may be sufficient if you fully embed the font, Acrobat 6 does not allow this (for font copyright reasons).

In a print workflow PDF has a big advantage: If you create PDF/X compliant files, you can make sure that they will print without any problems (no missing fonts or other print problems anymore). your print provider of course needs to be able to process PDF files. For web design, using PDF forms will enable you to use exactly the same form layout in print as on the web. If you go to the IRS web site and access the online version of the 1040 form, it will look exactly like the one you used to fill out in paper.
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by:jineti
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what are distillar job options , ive never used distiller?

and what do you mean by  PDF/X compliant files
thanks for the good answer
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by:alias84
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Those questions are answered as tutorials here:
http://www.adobe.com/products/tips/acrobat.html
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by:jineti
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I have a logo with a curve and it looks jagged everything i make a pdf doc with it is there a reason for this?
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by:Karl Heinz Kremer
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When you convert a document to PDF, there are two ways to do this: Applications like InDesign can create PDF directly. All Adobe applications use the same PDF library that Acrobat uses. For applications that don't support this direct mode, you can print to the "Distiller Printer", which takes the PostScript the application produces and convert is to PDF. PostScript and PDF are related, even though quite different. If you use an application like MSWord, you will have a "PDF" button on the toolbar. This uses the PDFMaker, which at the end also turns to Distiller to do the actual conversion to PDF.

When you convert to PDF via Distiller you can specify how the PDF should be generated.

Open up the Distiller (e.g. by selecting "Advanced>Acrobat Distiller" in Acrobat). Then select the
"Adobe PDF Settings". You have the choice of things like "Standard", "Smallest File Size", "Press Quality", "High Quality", ...
Select (or leave the selection at) "Standard", and select the "Settings>Edit Adobe PDF Settings..." menu. This will bring up the job options (that's how they were named in older versions of Acrobat, and I'm not used to the new name yet).

This will bring up the settings dialog. On the first tab (General) you will find the compatibility setting. The Images tab will contain anything that is related to images. Take a look.

You jagged edges are very likely from a wrong setting for the "Sampling" selection. Make sure that you select "Press Quality" when you convert PDFs. You can create your own "Adobe PDF Settings" (again, under the Settings menu).

When you print to the Distiller printer (or Adobe PDF in Acrobat 6), this dialog can be accessed via the "Properties" button on the print dialog.  
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by:jineti
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my main problen ios with a logo i'm using in the header of a word doc i want to make a pdf of

the logo is circular and the text under it appear pixelated

what can i do to get this crystal clear on screen as it looks great in work?
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by:Karl Heinz Kremer
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Did you check the "Adobe PDF Settings"? If you use Word, go to the Adobe PDF menu and select "Conversion settings" (or something similar, I don't have word on the machine I'm typing this). Are you sure that your source image has the correct resolution? Your screen has a resolution of 72 or 100 dpi, your printer can do much better than that. This means, if you have a source image with 100 dpi, it will look very good on screen, but once you print it, you will see a jagged edge.
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by:Staceman03
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Check your settings when you export or save as a pdf.  There are several presets, such as print to web and prepress, each with different uses and each with different results on file size.  You can manually change the settings, I would look at your downsampling settings and adjust accordingly.

Also, I have heard this complaint from some of my clients...when you view pdf in acrobat, it looks fuzzy, but you'll notice that if you zoom in, it is not.  This is also true in Word, the image may look fuzzy, but will print clear.   If your main purpose in onscreen, consider something other that pdf, like eps.  Otherwise, print the document and see how it comes out then, you may be surprised.
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by:Karl Heinz Kremer
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jineti, you accepted an comment as answer that did not answer any of your original questions. In Staceman03's comments, where is the information you requested about:

- compatibility between different Acrobat versions
- image resulution getting carried forward from application to PDF file
- compression of objects in a PDF file
- touchup of text and selecting fonts in a PDF file
- advantages of PDF in a print/web workflow

I only see a potential answer to your followup question (that is as long as you did not accept the part of the comment that talks about different PDF conversion settings and manually overriding these settings. These points were already discussed in my comments.

Please provide some explanation about why you did not accept my answers (or split the points). I'll request a review of this question.
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by:Staceman03
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My answer was more directed at Jinetis follow up question.  I have a company where I deal with clients all the time and I try to get to the root of why they are asking questions, as, usually, this is easier to answer than all of the questions they have come up with inside their own head trying to figure it out.  I do agree that I may not have addressed the original questions exactly, but I feel that i did explain why what was happening was happening.  I solved the problem as opposed to explaining the symptoms, if you will.

khkremer, I feel that you are correct in the literal sense in that your answer detailed the symptons, but the end result is to fix a problem.  If my answer did that, so be it.  Also, if, in fact, Jineti did incorrectly award points, or feels like we both covered his problem well enough, I am more than happy to split the points.  I respect your knowledge in this area, as demontrated by your point totals...keep up the good work.

I am just a squirrel, trying to get a nut... ;)
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by:Karl Heinz Kremer
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I agree that you may have provided the last missing piece to the puzzle, but jineti did for example ask about the advantages of a PDF workflow. This has nothing to do with a particular problem, the original question asked about compatibility between Acrobat 6 and 4. This again is not related to a problem with image resolutions (otherwise the question would have been something like this: My images look good in Acrobat 6, but not in Acrobat 4). And so on...
There were actually three followup questions (one about distiller options, one about PDF/X, which I forgot to answer and the last one about the jagged curves). IMHO these questions had nothing to do with the initial questions, which were about PDF in general (which is also reflected in the subject that was selected: "PDF?").
This is not about the points (OK, maybe a little :-) I have enough points, it's about using the EE system correctly, and not just accepting the last comment that wasn't "completely out of the ball park".
I know that it happens that a correct answer is not the one that the asker selects, and on average it should not matter: You lose some, you win some. But in the last couple of weeks I was on the losing end too often, and this one really pushed me over the edge :-) The selected answer has obviously nothing to do with the original question.

... and, given all the information that was provided, I think we would have deserved something better than a "B"
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by:jineti
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Well to be honest no one has answered what my real problem was and thats jagged curves on a high resolution logo circle. It prints fine but on screen its very jagged i agree i should have slipt the points and if this is possible to do i agree to do however if someone could explain how i can remove jaggies on curves on screen and at the same time keep file size good enough for web download and printinng id great appreciate it or is this a diff questions?
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by:Staceman03
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Point taken (no pun intended)...the jagged logo you see (as far as I know) is a limitation of characteristic of pdf's in general.  If you look at an acrobat, the resolution looks poor from 100% or more, as you zoom in, it gets clearer.  Maybe someone else can enlightened us as to why this happens.  Can you not import the graphic as an eps? This will appear on screen and in print equally well.
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by:Karl Heinz Kremer
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If you are using Acrobat 6 go to Preferences>Smoothing and turn smoothing on for text, lineart or images.
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by:Karl Heinz Kremer
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There are several reasons for this: One is performance. If you turn on smoothing, it will require more CPU power to render the smooth edges. The second problem is aliasing: You have two different sample rates: The monitor pixels and the image resolution. When you overlay the two, you get aliasing effects (like the moire effects you see when you scan a rasterized print).
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... and if you still want to know what PDF/X is: It's an ISO standard that defines a subset of PDF features that are required/allowed for "good" pre-press PDFs. When you create a PDF/X (there are different levels: PDF/X-1a, PDF/X-3) compliant file, your print provider will have no problems printing the file.

The standard disallows any ambiguities in PDF files. You need for example define if a file is trapped or not trapped, the flag must not be set to "unknown". You need to use certain color spaces, embed all fonts, embed all images ...
Because it's no longer a proprietary system (owned by Adobe), but a formal ISO standard, you are no longer tied to Adobe products. Anybody can create applications that implement the PDF/X standard. Any PDF/X file is a valid PDF file, but not every PDF file is a valid PDF/X file.

You can find out more about PDF/X here: http://www.pdf-x.com/pdfx_123_1.php
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by:Staceman03
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Showoff...

roflmao!
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by:jineti
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I kow i hace smoothing on and a good CPU but it still creates anti-aliasing. How can i avoid these moire effects?
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by:Karl Heinz Kremer
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Is this is on a CRT or LCD screen? You may have seen the additional options on the Smoothing dialog to create better results on LCD screens. I doubt that this will help anything but if you want to try one other thing, go for it.

You may not be able to get rid of this aliasing. Do you know the resolution the image was generated in? YOu may be able to recreate it with a different resolution (e.g. slightly higher) and get better results on the screen.

Also, look at the document on a different machine (with a different monitor or screen setup).

Are you using these documents only for print, or are they distributed as electronic documents as well?
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by:jineti
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CRT Monitor

image is  at 150 dpi and 200 by 200pixels
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by:Karl Heinz Kremer
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I still stand by my original assessment: I've provided answers for the original questions. The problem that's now being discussed as the actual problem was the _THIRD_ followup question, so I still think that the wrong comment was accepted as answer. I am well aware of the problem to come up with a correct question if you don't understand the problem, but in this case, I think the original questions was about PDF in general, and not about a specific problem.

Yes, moderator assistance is still needed.
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by:jineti
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Not sure what i should do

i'm going to ask a new question
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by:Karl Heinz Kremer
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modulo, can you please present the options jineti has.
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by:jineti
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cool maybe you could unabswer it so i ca award khkremer the points
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by:Staceman03
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Moderator, please remove all points from me and me from this question.  Way too much time has been spent on a question that was answered satisactorily along time ago.  I want no part in a forum whose highest point getter argues over 700 points and cares more about those than helping people out.  Good Bye...

PS:  Please advise me on who to make a report to regarding the absurdness of this situation and that someone who is obviously an integral part of this forum has spent their time and ours whining over 700 points.
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by:Karl Heinz Kremer
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I'm not whining about points! As I said before, it's not about the points, it's about how this system is used and the qualitiy of accepted answers. The accepted answer did not answer any of the five (?) original questions: Your answer was the correct answer for the third follow-up question.

My recommendation is to PAQ this question and refund the points.
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by:jineti
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I'm coool with what evers decided

and i agree its more about helping fellow professionals than points
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modulo earned 0 total points
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Closed, 500 points refunded.
modulo
Community Support Moderator
Experts Exchange
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by:jineti
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cool
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