Solved

Do software engineers need professional Certification?

Posted on 2004-04-22
29
279 Views
Last Modified: 2010-04-15
I didn't know where to put this question.Do software engineers need professional Certification like doctors or lawyers?
0
Comment
Question by:neekris
29 Comments
 
LVL 46

Expert Comment

by:Sjef Bosman
Comment Utility
Probably depends on the country. I've never heard of such a thing for SE's (western Europe), but maybe things have changed since I graduated. There are exams that a good SE will pass, so you could ask for them.
0
 
LVL 2

Expert Comment

by:anupvijay
Comment Utility
I think it depends to a great extent to, which area of the software you are planning to be part of.
In general a software engineer needs no certification like doctors or lawyers need from a government recognized body.
But to help one in moving forward in his/her career a person can sought for different forms of certifications from private
bodies.

Let others also chip in with their views....that would help you in getting a broader point of view.
Cheers.
0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:avizit
Comment Utility
yes and no .

No cos : it is not a requirement .. as in you dont need any certificate to be a practising programmer

yes cos some employers may find you preferable if you have certifications.


/abhijit/


0
 
LVL 2

Expert Comment

by:anupvijay
Comment Utility
I think I have also not heard of any certification for which a SE is legally obliged.
0
 
LVL 2

Expert Comment

by:anupvijay
Comment Utility
To add to what Abhijit said....

For example if some company is looking for a Java expert they might prefer a person with Java certification of the highest
level.

Cheers.
0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:griessh
Comment Utility
Hi neekris,

I am not aware of a country that requiers a cert of any kind. Everybody who is willing is allowed to write software and sell it or provide services for it.
The problem is that Software Engineers need a solid scientific education and training. If you want to apply for a job and have to compete with Engineers who spend several years in schools and took tests how big do you think your chances are to get the job?

======
Werner
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:ankuratvb
Comment Utility
Its never required and all the certifications in terms of help in getting a job relates only to your first job.

After your first job,its your experience that matters.
A good certification helps in propping up your resume for your first job.

But thats about it.
0
 
LVL 12

Expert Comment

by:stefan73
Comment Utility
Hi neekris,
Depends. For some job posting, from my view rather questionable certificates, such as MSCE, are requested.

For more specialized purposes, such as security-related IT jobs in the government, some countries require an internal certificate.

Cheers,
Stefan
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:ankuratvb
Comment Utility
Yeah.
Which country are you from?
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:ankuratvb
Comment Utility
In my opinion certifications like MCSE etc. have lost their sheen because of the large crowd of people having them.

So,certifications wouldnt really help you a lot.
But yes,most organizations have a minimum eligibility for jobs and that very rarely is 'a certification'.

0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:ankuratvb
Comment Utility
Are you asking this because of a 'Microsoft Student Champ' in your profile.

I've never heard of that.What is it?
0
 

Author Comment

by:neekris
Comment Utility
We are not dicussing in the right direction. Don't be country specific or job specific, be scientific. First, Why should a person go through a long course for becoming a doctor. Why computer engineers don't need that long course.
0
 
LVL 2

Expert Comment

by:anupvijay
Comment Utility
I think to benchmark against a doctor is not fair.

IMHO a doctor's job is a critically highly skilled one.
I mean, you can't debug a dcotor's work and say that here is the bug and then redo it again. It means life or death.
And due to this very nature of the job a software engineer's job cannot be compared to a doctor's.
And due to the very same reason a doctor needs more knowledge and real life experiences to become a "good" doctor.

May be a doctor need not be all that analytical when it comes to problem solving.....but still experience is a must.
And I think the long duration of their training gives them just that.

Tell me, would you go to a doctor who has just a graduate medicine degree or would you go to a doctor who
has a specialist qualification and wealth of experience behind him/her ?

But in a software engineer's case sometimes it really doesn't hurt to have a young fresh engineer eager to learn new things
and full of enthusiasm in the team.

And it is not that software engineers do not need the training.
Many software engineers I know or heard of have a minimum technical degree (4 years i mean) and many companies
keep that as an eligibility criteria.
It is just that the world can afford an inexperienced software engineer making a mistake but can't afford an inexperienced
doctor making a mistake.

PS:- The above opinions are solely mine and do not reflect the opinions of any other mortal or immortal object in the Milky
Way.

Cheers.
0
Find Ransomware Secrets With All-Source Analysis

Ransomware has become a major concern for organizations; its prevalence has grown due to past successes achieved by threat actors. While each ransomware variant is different, we’ve seen some common tactics and trends used among the authors of the malware.

 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:griessh
Comment Utility
Software engineers NEED courses, because all those other self-appointed "software engineers" produce all that crap that makes apps crash, hang, throw up on you ... and all our lives miserable.

Look up the term "engineering" in your Merriam-Webster:"2 a : the application of science and mathematics by which the properties of matter and the sources of energy in nature are made useful to people b : the design and manufacture of complex products <software engineering>"
and that doesn't usually happen through pure magic, but only through studying what other people discovered before you.
0
 

Author Comment

by:neekris
Comment Utility
I think griessh is almost right. Think of developing a life critical system, then errors may prove to be dangerous. So is there really a need for a degree or certifications to develop a software??
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:ankuratvb
Comment Utility
To develop software,(or to try to develop s/w) you dont require a certification.

To actually make it work properly and to make it acceptable to the customer,you need a high degree of skill,which a certification wouldnt always prove.

BTW,there is a fine line dividing certifications and courses.
You cant really compare an engineering degree with an MCSE certificate(not any more because of the mass of people having them).

There have been numerous examples who didnt have any certifications but still have been very good,skilled s/w engineers/

0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:ankuratvb
Comment Utility
The doctor's or the lawyer's certification still has its value because of its exclusivity in that not many people have that certification.

Compare that to the number of people having MCSE certification.
0
 
LVL 46

Expert Comment

by:Sjef Bosman
Comment Utility
The fact that we accept that SE's make mistakes costs the community a fortune. Is there a department of Quality Control in a hospital? A benchmark? A test patient who can be scrapped? I'm very much in favour of a certification for SE's, most certainly for those who work on industrial (Real-time) projects (process, nuclear installations, etc.). For all the rest, who learned to type the keys on a keyboard in the right sequence, they shouldn't be allowed to develop critical software.

The worst mistake in the education of SE's is that they are not taught to THINK before they act. Ever since the JUMP instruction is discovered, SE's are bound to JUMP to a conclusion. Some of my favourite quotes:

"Please engage brain before putting mouth into action". (origin unknown to me)
"Think, Lewis! Think!" (Inspector Morse)
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:Rajes
Comment Utility
i think SE needs certificate.world is changing with technology and the SE should change them with the environment
0
 
LVL 3

Expert Comment

by:dtkerns
Comment Utility
I am a registed Professional Engineer. (see http://www.ncees.org) Many states require persons who claim the title "Engineer" or pratice as a "Consultant Engineer" to be licensed. Currently, NCEES does not have an SE exam, the closest thing they currently have is a "Computer Engineer", but that is closer to the hardware/EE side then the software side. Texas has come up with their own exam, and requires persons using the title "Software Engineer" in Texas, to take and pass the exam.

There is a fine line between "Software Engineer" and "Programmer", non-the-less, however fine the line, I do believe there IS a line. One would hope that software used in life-critical applications (ie fighter jet navigational systems.... pull up, pull up! ;) ) would be designed by a team of real engineers as opposed to some high school kid who taught themself how to write games on their home computer. OTOH, I personally know a guy that did just that and I would say is as good a programmer as any of my CS PhD peers.
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:ankuratvb
Comment Utility
Scientifically thinking,

In an ideal scenario,if there existed a certification which had global recognition and tested(and certified) correctly,the skill of a supposed SE,and this certification could maintain to be a bit exclusive in that not every one could get it easily,then it'd be a great asset for a SE.

But i wonder if such a certification would ever exist.
0
 
LVL 11

Expert Comment

by:PennGwyn
Comment Utility
A few of the states have flirted with the idea of requirements similar to those for accountants, lawyers, doctors, and other sorts of engineer.  They've typically run into two practical problems:

1.  It's hard to separate the timeless core wisdom of the field from specifics of this month's hot new technology, which will be obsolete in 18 months, tops.

2.  It's hard to keep programming tools (compilers, etc.) out of the hands of uncertified individuals.  There's no audit process to ensure that every line of every function incorporated into software product X was written by, and compiled by tools written by, people who held valid certifications at the moment they wrote them.

0
 

Expert Comment

by:magashi
Comment Utility
I am not as sure as some above, that earning a certification or a very high level degree will denote the quality of SE.  Working with about 80% of SE from such renowned colleges and the 20% self appointed SE as said above, well I didn't see any real difference of quality there.
Sometimes I am disappointed rather with some of those 80% overconfident of what they have learned instead of coming up with real solutions.
As reagrding IT, the easy judgement saying that a graduate in IT is simply better than an other who just sleeps with his computer is just a complete nonsense.

By the way, of course unfortunately companies seek graduates though good or bad, may be a certifcation on genral knowledge of computer programming and that of analystic skills would be welcomed. And I mean a real certification and not on the style of MS... which was given almost to all passer-by :(
0
 
LVL 14

Expert Comment

by:wayside
Comment Utility
In the US, my experience has been:

1) For a hardcore programming job, certification is much less important than a 4 year technical degree from a good school. I have worked for more than one company where if you didn't have a degree you had no chance of being considered, regardless of your experience. Fair? Not really. Smart of the company? Nope. But that's the reality.

2) The closer you get to what is labeled "IT", the more important certifications become. Many IT jobs involve substantial programming, but you will still need to have a cert to get your foot in the door.

My $0.02, YMMV, BYOB, etc.
0
 

Author Comment

by:neekris
Comment Utility
This is the summary of the above comments. Can you experts come to some conclusion with these or give better ideas:
1.      It depends to a great extent to, which area of the software the engineer is planning to be part of: Moving forward in his/her career a person can sought for different forms of certifications from private bodies. If some company is looking for a Java expert they might prefer a person with Java certification of the highest
level.
2.      Depends on the country: For software engineers in Western Europe and India it’s not a requirement. Texas has come up with their own exam, and requires persons using the title "Software Engineer" in Texas, to take and pass the exam
3.      Many certifications help in getting the first job. After the first job, it’s the experience that matters.
4.      It is not possible to debug a doctor's work and say that here is the bug and then redo it again. It means life or death. Due to this very nature of the job, a software engineer's job cannot be compared to a doctor's.
5.      Much software crash or hang and make the end user’s life miserable. Hence we need certified engineers to develop software. Think of developing a life critical system where errors may prove to be dangerous.
6.      To develop software (or to try to develop s/w) we don’t require a certification. To actually make it work properly and to make it acceptable to the customer, we need a high degree of skill, which a certification wouldn’t always prove.
7.      If certification is imposed then a monitoring body is required to see to that every line of the software product is written by a certified SE and also the developed software doesn’t reach a non certified SE. This is practically impossible
0
 
LVL 1

Expert Comment

by:Rajes
Comment Utility
why you are acting like freak.
come on let do what you want
0
 

Accepted Solution

by:
ee_ai_construct earned 0 total points
Comment Utility
PAQed - no points refunded (of 125)
ee_ai_construct - CS Mod
0

Featured Post

How to run any project with ease

Manage projects of all sizes how you want. Great for personal to-do lists, project milestones, team priorities and launch plans.
- Combine task lists, docs, spreadsheets, and chat in one
- View and edit from mobile/offline
- Cut down on emails

Join & Write a Comment

This tutorial is posted by Aaron Wojnowski, administrator at SDKExpert.net.  To view more iPhone tutorials, visit www.sdkexpert.net. This is a very simple tutorial on finding the user's current location easily. In this tutorial, you will learn ho…
Summary: This tutorial covers some basics of pointer, pointer arithmetic and function pointer. What is a pointer: A pointer is a variable which holds an address. This address might be address of another variable/address of devices/address of fu…
The goal of this video is to provide viewers with basic examples to understand recursion in the C programming language.
The goal of this video is to provide viewers with basic examples to understand and use conditional statements in the C programming language.

772 members asked questions and received personalized solutions in the past 7 days.

Join the community of 500,000 technology professionals and ask your questions.

Join & Ask a Question

Need Help in Real-Time?

Connect with top rated Experts

15 Experts available now in Live!

Get 1:1 Help Now