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New mobo crashes after windows update restart!

Posted on 2004-04-27
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Last Modified: 2012-08-14
My desktop, with newly installed mobo maysonic (ms93573), produced a trap 30000005 exception error when I restarted after installilng the most recent windows updates beginning from Cumulative Security Update for Outlook Express 6 Service Pack 1 (KB837009).

Restarting sometimes produces the screen offering safe mode or last working config. but when i try either, the monitor goes to sleep (light goes from green to orange),  a clicking noise begins (vaguely emanating from one of the disk drives, definitely not from the hard drive), and the computer freezes unable to restart. one has to unplug from mains to get it back.

i've tried using the xp pro disk to boot up but nothing happens after the disk's initial messages.

I couldn't even call up the trap message anymore to give you the rest of the error message. i tried using a bootdisk from partition magic in the hope of checking out my hard drive and maybe trying an fdisk/mbr. but when the disk loaded, the screen was unreadable. i can't go any further with the floppy.

Since a friend's son assembled it for me a year ago, my computer has suffered from crashes, trap errors, fatal exception errors. i have eliminated problems with the peripherals i use - all drivers are updated and working well. the computer is regularly screened for viruses, trojans, spyware etc. I have a spare hard drive which I connect up occasionally.

When i got stop error messages on the spare hard drive (the other drive not even connected), I figured that  the problem might lie in the motherboard or in the ram. i reflashed the bios but after working well, the computer crashed again after a few weeks. i was fed up enough to shell out for a new maysonic motherboard (installed by a local pc expert) in early april. the old motherboard was an albatron px845e.

but this crash indicates that something other than the motherboard might be wrong. was it something in the windows update? or is my new motherboard defective? should i try replacing the ram? how do i boot back into xp pro?

while waiting for replies, I shall try connecting up my spare hard drive to see if it reproduces the error message.

here are other specs:

pentium 4 2.53mhz
adaptec scsi card for my scanner
netgear FA311 pci adapter
radeon sapphire 7500 series graphics card
512 ram

looking forward to your replies and thank you!
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Question by:mumatwork
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by:Snowguy
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First I would test the ram. Here is a link for a free OS independent memory checker.
www.memtest86.com
Download memtest86 to the harddrive. then double click on it. It will ask for a 1.44 floppy and create a self booting disk that you can use to test your ram. Run all tests not just the basic.

Download the software and the installation program automatically creates a self-booting diagnostic diskette. Simply insert this diskette into the floppy and reboot your PC to begin testing your system memory.

Although memtest is good. If all test pass it is posable to still have bad ram. The best test is to use known good ram. Or have a pc repair shop do a hardware based test on your ram.

If you have more then 1 stick of ram you can try them 1 at a time to see if the pc will boot.

Then I would test the hard drive with the tools from the
drive manufacture.

Fujitsu
http://www.fcpa.fujitsu.com/download/hard-drives/#diagnostic

Ibm now Hitachi
http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm

Maxtor
http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/powermax.htm
 
Samsung
http://www.samsung.com/Support/ProductSupport/index.htm

Seagate
http://www.seagate.com/support/index.html

Western Digital
http://support.wdc.com/download/#dlgtools



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by:mumatwork
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thanks for that. will have to do it on someone else's computer as my laptop has no floppy. i did try another memory tester that allowed you to create a bootable cd. but though i made sure to change the bios settings to boot first from the cd, nothing happened.

but i did get that garbled picture from the other floppy disk i used which might suggest something else is not working properly.

will let you know how that goes.
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by:Snowguy
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If you can make an iso bootable cd go here and DL the ultamate boot cd image(Comes Zipped up). It will have all the tools you need to check ram and the hard drive.
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4019.html
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by:buckeyes33
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Did you reinstall the operating system after you changed the motherboard?   If not you need to.
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by:mumatwork
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thanks, snowguy, have downloaded ultimate boot cd and will proceed with check up. thanks, buckeyes33 - yes, i did clean install the operating system (xp pro) and it was working fine (flying even) for  a month before this crash.

will update after i've checked memory with cd.
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buckeyes33 earned 100 total points
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I would say that your windows update screwed your system up.  That is if all the test come back and there is nothing wrong with them.
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by:mumatwork
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yes, i initially thought that and even contacted microsoft online assisted support to ask if i should suspect any of the updates. they said it was probably a hardware not a software problem then advised me to do a clean install (not surprising but not impressive either). i think they're right that it's a hardware problem (because of my machines long unresolved crash history) but the updates probably triggered the crash.

my adventure with snowguy's ultimate boot cd slightly railroaded by unresponsive cd player. will plug in a different power thingy then let you guys know how it went.

cheers for now
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by:mumatwork
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hi again.

in the end had to use a floppy version of the mem test because my cd drives just won't boot. everytime i tried to boot from the cd i just got the windows recovery screen (safemode, return to last working config, etc) - and when i picked any of those choices it just hanged, the monitor went blank with light on orange and the clicking noise started up.

the memory test couldn't find anything wrong. do you think i should just bite the bullet and reinstall windows? should i buy new ram?

also, the  mystery of the clicking noise. the noise only comes on when the computer is not responding to a restart. definitely not coming from hard drive. not from cd drives either because i unplugged those and it still chugged away.
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by:buckeyes33
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The clicking nose is probably a fan, either the one in the power supply or the CPU fan.  Sounds like one of them is going out.
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by:Snowguy
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Yeh I have seen systems hang and the clicking noise I belive comes from the internal pc speaker.
Dose this noise come when moving the mouse after the pc has hung?
Or is the noise more like the powersupply turning on and off?
You may just have a weak powersupply.

What you may want to do is strip it down just to the min. hardware.
Set the bios to the fail safe setting.
CPU 1 stick of ram (unless it is RDram needs to be a pair) video card and harddrive see if it will boot.

If you have a spare hard drive you may want to try a fresh install of XP just as a test.

Will your pc boot from the XP CD?

When you created the Ultimat boot cd did you unzip the down load first?
After the cd is created you should see 9 folders and 3 files.





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by:mumatwork
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what are fail safe settings? do you mean default settings? my old mobo had this choice but this mobo only gives you the choice of 'load optimal settings' and 'load best performance settings'.

i had to use a floppy of windows memory diagnostic because couldn't boot from ultimate boot cd. i must have done something wrong when i unzipped it to the cd.

but when i try to boot from the xp cd, it starts up, then it gets to the blue screen before hanging and the clicking noise begins again! when the clicking noise is on, it is impossible to turn the machine off by pressing the power button. although it does restart when you use the restart button.

i also tried reseating the ram, because this has worked for me in the past. but there was no change.

could all this be caused by a weak power supply? how do you check the power supply?

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by:mumatwork
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btw the clicking noise sounds like someone tapping on a piece of metal.
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by:Snowguy
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To check the power supply you need to try another known good with the same or higher wattage. Check here for the recomended min.
http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/
Still thinking on the other stuff got to get ready for work and will get back to you latter.

If you are getting the lock up Hang from the Xp cd I would say that its got to be a hardware problem for sure.
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by:Snowguy
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>>>"what are fail safe settings? do you mean default settings? my old mobo had this choice but this mobo only gives you the choice of 'load optimal settings' and 'load best performance settings'."

Yes usualy you have a fail safe default setting.
If that are your choices I would say 'load optimal settings' .

You may even want to reset the bios via the CLR cmos jumper (this should be done after a bios update any how if you did not) the jumper should be by the battery (small coin type about the size of a dime) check your manual for instructions.

The most common jumpers is 1-2=normal 2-3=clear after you clear the cmos for a few seconds put the jumper back to normal position where it should be now.

Or you can power off remove the power cord and remove the battery for a few min. This will set it to factory default settings. You may need to reset the CPU settings after, if it dose not auto detect the correct CPU settings.


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by:mumatwork
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here's what i've tried so far:

- - reseated ram. nothing happened.

-- clicking noise comes from my dvd drive when the machine hangs. i have a dvd drive and a cd rw drive. have removed the dvd drive to eliminate any confusions.

--connected spare hard drive which booted up to windows xp screen and then hanged.

--formatted the spare hard drive using floppy boot disk and then tried to install xp. the xp cd doesn't boot to the usual install menu, instead it says its loading drivers, then it says it is starting windows, then it hangs. (i had thought of formatting the main hard drive and then trying to diagnose the machine with a freshly installed os, but now it's clear can't do even that!)

--checked out the recommended power supply on http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/ - i have an adequate 350 watt psu but from what i've learned about psus, i think i will replace it anyway with one that has had good reviews. have ordered an antec 430 watt.

--ram tests say the ram is okay. but have decided to try a new, non-generic stick of ram to see if this solves the problem. have ordered a stick of crucial ddr.

the new development is that when i press the power button, it goes straight into a hang. to get it going, i have to then press the restart button!

-i removed all pci cards, disconnected cd, floppy, hard drive and pressed power button. it went straight into a hang. pressed restart and it booted up so i could look at bios fine.

--when i connect the hard drive to the barebones setup, it boots to the windows safe mode/return to working config screen. but it hangs when you select any of the choices.

--when i then connect a cd drive to try to boot from windows cd, it counts off drivers then it says, 'starting up windows' and then it hangs.

--i tried selecting 'load optimal settings' on the bios but when i save and exit from the bios, it hangs. same with selecting 'load best performance settings'.

am getting up the courage to do clear cmos or maybe i'll wait until after i've changed the power supply and the ram. thanks for all your interest and advice so far. will report next week when the ram and psu arrive.

cheers.





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by:Snowguy
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I can not find the Motherboard you mention "maysonic (ms93573)"

Is it by chance this one?
http://www.matsonic.com/new/productsdata/ms9357e.htm
If so have you tried useing the onboard VGA to rull out a posable problem  with your radeon sapphire 7500 series graphics card?
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by:buckeyes33
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Going on the fact that you have tried a lot.  If the power supply thing does not work, then what I would do is get a new motherboard and processor.  If you don't want to buy both then take it to a computer store and have them check both as one of them is bad.
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by:mumatwork
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thanks guys. yes, sorry, mistyped it - the motherboard is a matsonic. will try onboard vga to rule out graphics card. gee, buckeyes33, it would be a bummer if it were the motherboard. i only just got the matsonic to replace an albatron px845e which i thought was causing the problems. it's still on warranty but don't look forward to talking to computer guy who installed it for me for 80 quid (more than US$100) who was very bad tempered.

the machine was only assembled last april with brand new parts and has had blue screens every month since then.  at first i blamed worms. then i blamed xp. then when i began to learn more about hardware, i thought it might be a dicky motherboard. but this is really frustrating. ah well. am probably the only housewife on my block who knows how to reflash a motherboard.

will let you know if the new psu and the new ram have any effect.
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by:buckeyes33
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so this is the 2nd board that has had this problem?
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by:mumatwork
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yes, though this problem appears to be more severe. the previous board (the albatron) ran well for a couple of months before having a series of stop errors and blue screens of death. i managed to recover from these. i did get the blaster virus at one point and thought that it was responsible for further blue screens. the thing was i always managed to eventually bring the computer back to life just by trying and trying to reboot (it always eventually brought up a return to last working config screen), or if i couldn't, i formatted the drive and reinstalled the os.

i finally replaced the motherboard in early april. but now this problem seems to indicate that it might not have been the motherboard after all. unless i had the bad luck of replacing my old motherboard with another bad one.
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by:buckeyes33
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>>indicate that it might not have been the motherboard after all
more and more towards the power supply.  Maybe even the power supply has ruined both motherboards.
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by:mumatwork
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>>>>Maybe even the power supply has ruined both motherboards.

aaaargh!

well the new ram arrived this morning (crucial is amazing at next day delivery - and it's free!), i put it in and pressed power button. as usual, power came on but the computer did not boot up until i pressed the restart button.

(aside: perhaps the power button has disconnected from something but the restart, still properly connected, continues to function?)

i had a wave of hope when i chose last known working config and the machine went all the way to the xp opening screen. but after that, nothing.

btw whenever you do something in the bios set up screen and then save/exit, the computer hangs - but not like a blue screen hang, more like the power switched off (like when i press the power button and it goes on but the mobo doesn't go). the machine only boots up properly when i press restart button so i wonder if there is a simple connection somewhere that doesn't work.

however even if that were something simple to fix, why doesn't the machine go back into xp? and why can't my xp cd repair it or do a new install on a freshly formatted spare hard drive?

would it be worth waiting for the psu before attempting to reset cmos?

i am not expecting the psu to be delivered until tuesday as england has a bank holiday monday. so it will not be until then that we can check out the power supply. thanks again and will continue to trouble you with this next week unless a miracle happens over the weekend.
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by:buckeyes33
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>>btw whenever you do something in the bios set up screen and then save/exit, the computer hangs - but not like a blue screen hang, more like the power switched off
that is not a problem, I have seen many computers do that.
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by:mumatwork
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ok. psu arrived today, installed it. still the same problems. should i say motherboard's the problem?

i've been reading up on resetting cmos for matsonic. daunting. any other options?

 thanks

:(
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by:mumatwork
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how does one test a motherboard?
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by:mumatwork
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so here's a new development: i thought i'd try approaching the problem in a different way now that i've established that it's not the power supply and not the memory. i thought i'd work towards a successful install of windows. i remember having a similar problem before and getting round it by first installing 98 just to get it running so i could test the machine.

so i used my pq magic boot disk to reformat the spare drive (which by the way tested with no errors). however, in the middle of the process, i got the following error:

causeway error 09: unrecoverable internal exception

there followed a bunch of numbers (i include them here in case they are useful):

fx 0D; error code 0166
EAX=000018ee
EBX =0003021
ECX=0000000
EDX=0000000
EX=0000442f
edi=00000785
EBP=000007F5
ESP=000006F4
EIP=0000192d
CS=00a3
DS=0083
ES=00D3
GS=0063
SS=008B
CRO=800000011
CRS=000000
CR3=00115000
TR-0023

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by:buckeyes33
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Snowguy gave you a list of tools in his first post.  Each tool will only work with the correct manufacturer.   You need to run the tool for your hard drive and see if it is good.  
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by:mumatwork
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thanks for that. ran the tool again. drive checks out ok.

 a friend sent me this snippet from another site about causeway error:

>>>As far as I can find out, this Causeway Error is generated by a piece of code which was written eons ago, and which is very common in use as it's a free dos extender, whereas MS DOS is not.  It is obviously not suitable for the latest software versions, and for a major software vendor like PowerQuest to market their products with known problems like this is yet another example of how we are ripped off.>>

he concludes that it is a red herring. i have managed to boot up using pqm boot disks again with no such problems. so i am still trying to load windows onto the spare hard drive. the xp cd just won't boot to the install screen. this has happened in the past - i think i overcame it only through sheer repetition. i tried doing it from dos, going into i846 folder and typing winnt.exe. it started copying files to the c: drive and then it froze.

i then put my primary hard drive into external enclosure and attempted to format c: partition and load windows via pq magic on my laptop. but pq magic won't install windows to anything but a c: drive. so now i've got a formatted c: drive on my main drive! ah well, its ready for when we figure out how to install xp.

thanks for listening


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by:mumatwork
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i was closing the question because the computer allowed me to reinstall windows (98, but hey). sorry but am neophyte to this, my summary didn't appear even though my splitting up points did. so i thought i'd just let you know how it went.

i've learnt of a bug in a windows update item that may have been involved in my problem. here is the link:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1578752,00.asp

but it's only a guess.

re: restart hang - have noticed a pattern in the pc hanging. it alternates. press restart. it hangs. press restart again. it boots. press restart. it hangs. press restart again. it boots. so now, i press restart twice to successfully restart the computer.

this might be significant in the following development.

i successfully installed windows 98 on my spare drive (btw i removed my graphics card and the machine is now sans graphics card, vga is on board)

after success with 98, i decided to attempt xp. i then booted up with a boot disk, formatted the drive again, and attempted to install xp (from dos because my cd doesn't boot up to the set up screen). the install went fine until the first restart, when the computer did its usual hang before the restart button was pressed again. when the xp set up resumed, it did the old thing mentioned above of counting off drivers and then saying that it is about to start xp ... then nothing.

thank you for the suggestions which taught me a lot. at least, i am now at a stage where i can attempt installs. will post new question if i can't iron out xp installation problems!

cheers!

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by:buckeyes33
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The bug makes sense.  I had a friends computer doing the same thing.  However, with his after several tries we were able to get into safe mode and do a system restore and we were able to go back to before the updates were installed.
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by:mumatwork
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i might open a new question for this. but you might be interested to know:

all my install attempts of xp failed. it begins to install after the first restart, and then restarts.

one angle suggested to me is that it could have been oem software that did not agree with a new motherboard. but i never even get to activation! ah well. back to the drawing board.
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by:mumatwork
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problem solved:

it was the processor!

i tested the processor on a barebones computer i was building for my son and the same errors came up.

buckeyes said: >Going on the fact that you have tried a lot.  If the power supply thing does not work, then what I would do is get a new motherboard and processor.  If you don't want to buy both then take it to a computer store and have them check both as one of them is bad.<

sorry, buckeyes, you were right. should have given you the points.
thanks all.
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