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How to Clone Novell 3.1X Hard Drives

Posted on 2004-08-04
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Last Modified: 2007-12-19
I need to be able to clone the partitions off a scsi drive on a Novell 3.1X Server to another drive (probably IDE) for use in a "dummy" or "clone" machine in order to perform a test upgrade of a db application.  Can anyone point me in the right direction of how to do this?

Thanks.
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Question by:coxcomputer
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15 Comments
 
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Assisted Solution

by:PsiCop
PsiCop earned 250 total points
ID: 11720152
<pet peeve>
"Novell" is a company. "NetWare" is a product.
</pet peeve>

GHOST is probably your best bet. However, you do need to be aware that you will not be able to simply crank up the server and go straight into testing. You're moving from a SCSI-based drive subsystem to IDE. These use different disk drivers under NetWare. The drivers are loaded in C:\SERVER\STARTUP.NCF, so you can use a DOS editor to edit that file as appropriate. Which drivers should you use? Good question. I've got no idea.  NetWare c3.1x has been EOLed for YEARS, and its been at least 5 YEARS since I touched a v3.1x server. And then it had SCSI - I've never run NetWare v3.1x with an IDE drive subsystem. I'm sure it can be done, its just a matter of identifying and using the proper .DSK drivers (the disk subsystem driver files in NetWare v3.1x typically ended in the extension .DSK; modern versions from this century use .HAM/.CDM)

This is, of course, the penalty you pay for trying to run an ancient version of the NOS on modern hardware. Doesn't make much sense to me, but if it were me, I'd be looking at upgrading to at least NetWare v5.1. Anyway, if you can't find the needed drivers on the GHOSTed disk, try going to the Novell Support website and looking in the download library for NetWare v3.1x-specific files -- here's a link to the NetWare v.12 library, (http://support.novell.com/filefinder/147/index.html), in specific try the 3rd Party Disk Drivers download.
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Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 11720835
simple - put in both drives (SCSI and IDE) and simply MIRROR the partitions.  Then, once completed, you can pull one out and disable support for it's interface - then you simply break the mirroring.
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Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 11721783
That, too. There's usually more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak, in the Novell world. Which way is "best" depends on your environment, time constraints, and skill level. You'll still be editing STARTUP.NCF either way.
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Expert Comment

by:DonBrill
ID: 11733128
Didn't Symantec kill Ghost for NetWare?

The guy who wrote Ghost (I'm horrible with names...) founded a company called "Portlock" and Portlock Storage Manger is the best utility I've seen for copying/moving/resizing volumes. (www.portlock.com)
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by:PsiCop
ID: 11734940
Yes, Portlock makes NetWare specific products. I've never used them, so I can't comment on their usefulness/quality, but if they seem to fit the bill, they have been around for awhile (i.e. they're not some fly-by-night company).
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by:pgm554
ID: 11743697
IDE and 3.12 issues.

If memory serves me right, 3.12 has issues seeing any thing above 8.4 gigs(ide) without being patched and running .ham and .cdm (NWPA architecture) ,so it might not be as straight and easy as one suspects.

So what you might get are errors like "some volume segments could not be mounted or found ".

If you have to use an IDE drive ,get something less than 8.4 gb.

As for Ghost for Netware,Symantec bought PowerQuest and 6.5 is as good as, if not better than, Portlock.
But then again,I am not a big fan of Symantec(even though I resell their products).

The DRM crap that one has to put up with nowadays makes them SUCK TOTALLY.

Yeah ,you HAVE to register,and if there is a bug in their software, it'll cost you money to find out.
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Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 11744812
Actually, I think that ancient version of NetWare has trouble seeing ANYTHING over 8 GB.
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Expert Comment

by:pgm554
ID: 11746873
No, it will see and use space over 8 gigs, but the problem is that unless the server.exe is patched and NWPA is used along with the appropriate drivers, NW won't see above 8.4 gigs.

If I had a 8.4 gig IDE disk and installed NW 3.X and patched it, I could add a 2nd IDE disk of any size , create and use a NW partition up to whatever the theoretical limits are of 3.12.

So we have a "Catch 22" situation.
You can't install to a disk larger than 8.4 without being patched, but you need to install before you can patch. There are ways around it, but is it worth the effort?


SCSI controllers don't have this issue because the BIOS and drivers take care of it from the manufacturer. This is just a limitation of how IDE works in NW and other OS’s (including NT 4.0).

I would use SCSI and save myself the hassle.
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Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 11747697
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Expert Comment

by:umang505
ID: 11766065
Use Portlock Storage Manager to make a image of the server ( Image Dos Partition,Sys Volume and any other volume you need for testing the DB application.
Remove SCSI Drives , Install IDE drives, Restore the dos partition using Portlock Storage manager ( This will give you the previously patched up Server.exe and all the ham drivers etc as it is. )
Edit the startup.ncf file located at c:\server.312\ to install the drivers for ide hard disk. Restore SYS volume and now you are ready to Check your application.
I have cloned my NW3.2 server this way successsfully.
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Accepted Solution

by:
DSPoole earned 250 total points
ID: 11767216
or, save some money - install an IDE drive WITH the SCSI drive and patch NetWare - then mirror the NetWare partitions from the SCSI drive to the IDE drive (once you can see above the 8.4GB barrier).

Then, make sure you create a DOS partition on the IDE drive, copy the file structure from SCSI to IDE drives and then use the DOS SYS command to make the IDE drive bootable.

next, pull the SCSI drivers from the STARTUP.NCF and down the server.  Remove the SCSI components and bring the server back up booting from the single IDE drive.  

Break the mirroring.

Down the server and add a second IDE drive on it's OWN IDE controller or channel (don't do a Master/Slave with these drives, performance will suck).

Bring the server back up and create a mirror between the two IDE drives.

You can also get hardware mirroring (RAID) controllers for IDE (not a bad idea).

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Author Comment

by:coxcomputer
ID: 11801562
Hey Guys,

    Ok.  I cloned the SCSI drive to an IDE drive with Ghost for Netware.  The clone was successful as far as I can tell.  However, the volumes won't mount.  Obviously it must be about the drivers that you were talking about.  I noticed that Novell had some 1998 ATAIDE drivers for Netware 3.1X and I have downloaded them... however, I am not sure where to put them, nor am I sure what values that they should take (if any).

Kevin
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Author Comment

by:coxcomputer
ID: 11801673
LOL,

    Ok, I'm through with mass panic.  It was a combination of a patch and the IDEATA, IDEHD drivers that were not installed on this server.  After installing them and editing the *.NCF file it seems to be coming up like it did on the SCSI system.  I will keep everyone abreast of my situation.  I may have further questions.

Kevin
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Author Comment

by:coxcomputer
ID: 11818467
Hey guys, well thanks for all the help.  I did get the drive cloned successfully and working long enough to upgrade the app and move it to the new Microsoft 2K3 Server.
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 11821014
Sorry to hear you're moving to an environment that will cost you 2x to 3x more to own and operate than an equivalent modern NetWare environment. Enjoy the next Slammer, NetSky or whatever new Windoze worm that comes down the pipe. Nothing like having any 16-year-old twerp in Germany being able to bring your entire network to its knees, is there? Good luck...you'll need it.
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