Was there ever a man on the moon ?????????

hey guys ,,,,,, before I go .....
was there ever a man on the moon ??????
I read thru articals which explained that tha there were no man ever on the moon(shatterd my dereams of becomming a astronaught) ....... it seems like ther are a "van Allen belt"(radiation belt) over the earth..... is it true that this radiation is 300+ ??? and is there a way to get past it except the fact to use 4 feet thick lead to proteck humens ????
I just want to know if its true
thanx
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LordRipperAsked:
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nickg5Connect With a Mentor Commented:
watching it now:
(radiation belt is no. 31)
here are the reasons what we saw on TV of the landing are fake:
1. the US flag was waving but there is no air on the moon or wind either.
2. the clarity of deep space was very clear but there were no stars
3. there was no blast crater beneath the lander
4. 20% of Americans think it was fake.
5. the chances of going to the moon and back successfully is only .0017%.
6. NASA wanted to beat the Russians so bad they faked it
7. The astronauts took off but circled the eath for 18 days.
8. NASA had 40 billion dollars and could afford to fake it.
9. flimed in Nevadas high dessert, the most higly guarded area in the country.
10. this desert DOES have craters, area 51 in Nevada.
11. area 51 is highly guarded and secret, the moon props are there.
12. lander had no engine noise, the theory is that is what lowered onto the desert by cables as the noise level of the lander should have been 140 decibels and the voices of the astronauts could not have been heard over 140 decibels
13. Armstrong had to eject from a test flight in the US and the lander exploded, as it was to unstable. If we could not control it in our environment how could it be controlled on the moon.
14. the people who say we went say there are foot prints on the moon...well let's go back and see!!!
15. the powerful blast of the lander engines would not have allowed for foot prints on such a powdery surface.
16. no dust of the foot pads of the lander and there should have been dust.
17. the whole thing made in a movie studio.
18. on departure, the accent, you do not see an exhaust ploom, suggesting it was jerked up by a cable.
19. the photos we saw are fake because when the speed of the astronauts walking is doubled, on the moon which has 1/6th the gravity of the moon, they appear to be running as if they were still in earth's normal gravity.
20. the still photos are fake because the person who designed the cameras mounted on the astronauts suits says they could not have been maneuvered like we saw because of the bulkiness of the suits.
21. so no way they could take the 1000's of pefect still photos that we saw.
22. the only source of light was the sun, but shadows on some of the rocks should have been east to west but they were not and other photos show shadows goings in opposite directions.
23. other photos show the astronauts brightly lit even though they are on the back side of the lander and that side of the lander is total darkness because the sun is shining on the front of the lander and the astronaut is in the back of the lander.
24. another with the sun behind the astronaut he should have been seen as a silhouette, but the front of his suit is clearly visible, suggesting multiple light sources....when in fact the only source of light on the moon was the sun and it only shined in one direction at a time.
25. other photos show the same mountains in the background even though the lander never moved so how can the same mountains be in a photo with the lander and another without the lander, another where the lander moved 2 miles the next day but the mountains are the same.
26. cross hairs were designed on the camera so that the cross hair would always be on top and in the center of the photo, but some photos show the cross hairs being covered up or not in the proper place on the photos.
27. the 3 astronauts who died in a prelaunch simulation were murdered. Gus Grissom was suppoed to go to the moon. But he was quoted as saying "someone is going to get killed". He was killed in the simulation. Grissoms son said the CIA killed them, because they KNEW to much. We still do not know the cause of the accident. The burned capsule is hidden somewhere in Nevada.
28. Apollo crtic, Thomas Barron, who testified against it, died one week later in a mysterious car crash. 15% of NASA's astronauts died mysteriously.
29. Most NASA employees did not know it was a fake.
30. The truth may only be known by the very few that knew and the truth is in their graves.
31. radiation belt: 500 miles above earth, 1000's of miles thick, going thru it you get very sick or killed. No other manned misson has tried to go thru these belts except the fake moon trip. it would take 6 feet of shielded lead to protect the capsule. All they had was paper thin aluminum of the capsule and their suits. If that belt had not killed them, violent explosions from the sun called magnetic storms which can increase the radiation in the belts by 1000 times.
32. the moon's surface is not inhabitable by humans, -250 degrees at night and +250 degrees in day and their suits cold not have withstood it the lethal radiation.
33. A Russian scientist said the Russians did not go because of the radiation belts.
34. The apollo price tag was 40 billion, the most expensive movie ever made.
35. the answer is on the moon, the abandoned rovers, the flags, etc. USE the most powerful telescopes we have and see. Japan was supposed to send a rocket to the moon and take photos, two year after the production of this "conspiracy video". i have not seen any results from the Japanese mission.
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CallandorCommented:
It happened on July 11, 1969 on Apollo 11 http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo11.html

The radiation belt is concentrated by the earth's magnetic field, so it isn't a danger everywhere.
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CallandorConnect With a Mentor Commented:
Correction ... July 20, 1969
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griesshCommented:
Hi LordRipper,

yeah, the whole universe is a bid stage build for each of us :-)

Take a look at http://spider.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/waw/mad/mad19.html that's IMO a pretty good and not too scientific way to describe the problems with the van Allen belt.

======
Werner
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winzigCommented:
Of course Andy Caufman.  
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125664/
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Muhammad Ahmad ImranConnect With a Mentor Database DeveloperCommented:
Nice Information

But Some peoples inquire that if they are on moon so long time ago, then why Nasa have not made another try after that. Even after 25 years no person after the first one go there. So many peoples think that it may be fake.
Please guide me if you have information about this.

Thanks
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JaffaKREECommented:
why exactly would you want to go back ?

More rocks ?

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LordRipperAuthor Commented:
leoahmad
well I read that this "van allan belt" is round bout 6000km above us and is 300+ radiation ....
but in the links givin I read thru some of them and all of them is about conspiracys......
I looked at what nasa had to say about this "van allen belt" and thy say that if a human wants to pas thru it you would have to place 4 walls around the person ...... the walls must be 4 feet thik and must be made from lead ...... and this aught to have a dead weight of a phew tons .... so I don't know how thy would get such an heavy thing into the air.....

now I know all of the pics is fake ...... and it ain't dificult to see its fake ......
this all leads me to believe that there were only people just out of our atmosvere and no one that went thru this radiation belt as this belt is round about 10000km thik ..... and the moon is on the other side of the belt

but please proove me wrong ..... and make me dream of going to the moon again
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andyalderCommented:
Faked Pictures? All the clains have about the pictures being faked have been debunked, the most famous "proof of forgery" is probably the 'C' rock, but the letter C wasn't on the original, it was caused by a hair of dust during a photographic copy process. Find a pucture you think is faked and I'm sure we can explain why it is not faked.

Some good links at http:Q_21022068.html although you can ignore the political stuff at the end of the thread.

You would need 4 feet thick walls to *live* in the Van Allen belts, but the faster you pass through them the less radiation you recieve and Apollo was going rather fast at the time. They certainly are dangerous places to be, but electronic equipment is more sensitive to radiation so if humans couldn't escape them then all of the robotic exploration would have to be faked as well. That brings ESA, Japan and all the other countries that claim to have sent robotic probes to Mars and Saturn into the same conspiracy theory. And you have to pass the radiation belts to get to geostationary orbit so Satellite TV is a myth as well.

As jafaKREE hint's, it isn't worth going to go to the moon just to get more moon rocks and the whole point of going there wasn't to get scientific data and samples anyway, it was all about beating the Russians. Once US had beaten Russia in the space race and proven they could repeat it there wasn't much reason to go there again.

Your dream of going back there will probably be realised in the next decade or two, not to bring back more rocks but to collect helium 3. The Moons surface is supposedly loaded with HE3 rather than cream cheese, and HE3 is the ideal fuel for a fusion power station; far superior to Duterium/Tritium - it produces alpha particles rather than neutrons which are much easier to shield against and it requires less heat/pressure to get it to fizz than D/T, trouble is there is not any available on th earth but the Moon's covered in it due to the interaction of the solar wind with the surface.
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JaffaKREEConnect With a Mentor Commented:
There is no conspiracy here. Move along.

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Muhammad Ahmad ImranConnect With a Mentor Database DeveloperCommented:
JaffaKREE,
 >>why exactly would you want to go back ?
  Look when they first time go (if accepted), they definately have to do some experiments. Now a question is "Will they got all the answers to their questions in first flight and in 25 years they need no new experiment to be there.Even they send missions to Mars then why it was only the one - time journey to moon upto now.

Sorry man if I bother you but that's a simple question strikes in minds peoples around me and they asked and I stop there. So that's why I ask here.

LeoAhmad
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nickg5Connect With a Mentor Commented:
I have a one hour video from a few years ago. There were several things that prove we never went to the moon. You want a copy, I can make a copy for you, and send to you for the cost of the shipping, video, maybe $2.00....damn I must be desperate for part of this 500 points. If you want I'll watch the video again and tell you precisely what the scientist, etc. say as to why we did not go there. One thing that bothers me is that if is was so easy, why have we not gone back in over 30 years, and the Russians have not tried it either. The video said it was staged in the deserts of good old USA. I watched the video and there are extremely good evidence why we did not go, one I remember were shadows from the sun...they were the wrong way, impossible...it was all trick photography. the video is facinating and the people making the arguments against are scientists and engineers.
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Muhammad Ahmad ImranDatabase DeveloperCommented:
nickg5 , that's what I am try to discuss here.....

if you have video ....can you put some min clips to a link so all members discuss it.

LeoAhmad
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nickg5Commented:
it is a VHS tape
the video is one thing but the audio discussion by the experts makes the case.
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Muhammad Ahmad ImranDatabase DeveloperCommented:
Is it a film. What 's the name i want to see it. I am in Pakistan. tell me name I find it here.
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nickg5Commented:
it is a documentary produced in the USA....called
CONSPIRACY THEORY: Did We Go To The Moon?
you'll never find it in your place i do not think.
I have a video capture card and I can watch the tape and listen to it with my flyvideo capture card, but I have no idea how to let anyone else hear it or see it. I have tried to learn how to do that and never got it yet.
if you were in USA you could have a copy for $2....I make it with my two vcr's and ship it media mail for under $2.00....
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LordRipperAuthor Commented:
andyalder
man you know your stuff ..... where did you learn all of this .... ????

JaffaKREE
the reason why I asked this question is to find out if I will be able to go to the moon in the future ...... please do not give comments like move on etc ........

nickg5
well I also saw a piece of this video you are talking about ..... but not the whole thing .....
It would be nice if you maybe could convert it to codec or similair format and upload it to some server so that we maybe can download it .......
as for the points ...... welll I will split the points with all who took part in this debate .......
here is a Idea ..... why don't you just get a tape reader and plug it into the pc and save the whole movie to the pc and upload it for US .......
I did see this CONSPIRACY THEORY: Did We Go To The Moon? but would like to see all of it .......  
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andyalderConnect With a Mentor Commented:
No video I'm afraid but there's streaming audio at http://nardwuar.com/vs/bill_kaysing/

Seem the Fox "did we go to the moon" was based on "a funny thing happened on the way to the moon" which is based on Bill (Mr Conspiracy) Kaysing's theories.
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nickg5Commented:
i would love to do that but I do not know how. I can get it on my computer as a video file using my flyvideo capture card, but the size of the file would be very large. I  have no tape reader and  know nothing about codecs, uploading to servers, etc.

I am afraid you will never get to the moon. Why are we spending so much money on Mars, etc, when the moon is alot closer and alot cheaper to get to. Why not go to the moon again after all these years to see if what was left behind is still there, take a Russian along, etc. Maybe it is because we never went there.
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nickg5Commented:
let me watch this video again and give you a word by word account of what is said about that radiation belt by the scientist and engineers....if I remember right it said no man could survive it.
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LordRipperAuthor Commented:
Nickg5 ......
yip ... I also read that no man can survive it .... but please go thru it all again and let us know ....
thanx
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andyalderConnect With a Mentor Commented:
35. Japan hasn't launched yet. ESA launched a mission to the moon last year but it hasn't got there yet, it's going the slow way although it took the conventional fast trip through the radiation belts.
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nickg5Commented:
well, one way the US government and NASA can prove we went is to send an un-manned vehicle to the moon to take photos of the areas where we left debri. They go to Mars to get pics, why not the moon?
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griesshConnect With a Mentor Commented:
enough fun now <\unsubscribe>
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andyalderConnect With a Mentor Commented:
America has already been to the moon, and also had a pretty good attempt to do the other thing. They're hardly going to spend half a billion dollars on taking a picture of of an old lander on the lunar surface since the conspiracy theorists would intsantly dismiss that picture as a fake anyway. I think they were wrong to pull their book debunking the conspiracy theory but NASA's logic was there is nothing to hide so why publish an official debunking.
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D0uble_ACommented:
If you go to the page on badastronomy in my earlier post, you can see the explanations for most of the points highlighted in the video.

About sending a unmanned vehicle, just the cost of sending a vehicle to space and that too without any significant importance like scientific research would not really appeal to them.  And besides, non believers would claim that that too was staged.
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JaffaKREECommented:
This question is a massive waste of space, not to mention it jammed up my inbox with junk.

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Muhammad Ahmad ImranConnect With a Mentor Database DeveloperCommented:
Well Gentlemen,
   The question still remains unproved in both sides. It is now only way to prove this is to involve a scientist in the question. I am going to search the Nasa Site and invite someone to join us here and protect Nasa's argument.
The otherway which is not possible for me is to find a person who is quite young at the moment when Nasa claims to do so. My birth year is  1979 so it  is 10 year earlier before me. But may be someone of you can contact a person who is young in 1969 and then he can tell us what was then Tv or News papers says about this.

Regards

LeoAhmad
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Muhammad Ahmad ImranConnect With a Mentor Database DeveloperCommented:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/index.html

May be this link is helpful. Here are some movie clips
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nickg5Connect With a Mentor Commented:
seems to me there will always be controversy. The only way is a unmanned trip back. Alot cheaper than these other NASA ventures. Who needs to know if there is life or water on Mars? are we all going there to live? maybe we could help pay for an unmanned "camera" loaded mission to the moon (joint effort with japan and russia). If Russia thinks we made it to the moon maybe that is their reason for not going, since we are already first. Or maybe they think it was a fake too but they still do not want to go because of the radiation belt. If their crew died there, then it would look like our technology was superior since our guys made it thru the belt.
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aorenste32Connect With a Mentor Commented:
Actually - there is proof.  The apollo astronauts left several mirrors on the surface which are used to determine the distance from the earth to the moon using a laser.  If they had never been there the mirrors wouldn't be there.  (I guess aliens could have put them there, but that would be the answer to a different question).

Either google 'moon mirror laser' or go to http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/Mirrors.htm
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nickg5Connect With a Mentor Commented:
well, on the Fox special, when the people who were interviewed on behalf of the moon mission being real, why did these people not mention the mirrors? I have watched the tape several times. The "we went there crowd" never mention mirrors. This would kill the naysayers and declare their argument dead.
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aorenste32Connect With a Mentor Commented:
I haven't seen the fox special and I don't know who was in it, however, IMHO, in general fox seems to be more interested in getting viewers than in accurate reporting.  Maybe they edited that out because it would have made the 'special' less interesting.   Maybe their experts on 'we went there', weren't experts.

Try using google:
I just googled 'moon landing fox special'.  Here's the first four hits:

http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/NOT_faked/FOX.html
www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html
www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ mi_m2843/is_3_25/ai_74523973
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast23feb_2.htm

They give very reasonable answers to all the questions you posited above.


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monzieConnect With a Mentor Commented:
Ok just been looking at this pic from NASA and there IS doubts:

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo11/hires/s69_40308.jpg

Look how the shadows go from diagonaly from bottom right to top left (approx) so where is the shadow of the flag or pole going across the astronaught on the left..it stops at his right foot?

Next REGARDLESS of the height of the ground (the flag sets a datum) the astronaut on the right has a much longer shadow YET taking into account the datum of the flag he is actually at a lower height...this is IMPOSSIBLE...regardless of ANY bull about cameras etc.

Next if the flag DOES not cast a shadow across the astronaut on the left (which it doesnt...except on the ground just before his right foot) it should have its own shadow of pole and flag behind him....it doesnt...the heighest point shadow is the antenae of the left astronauts back pack......so where is it?.....it is clearly taller than either astronaught.

Next whats the red dot on the right hand astronaughts midrift?

Notice how the shadow on the right hand astronaughts left foot is TOO well defined?

Also notice in the shadow (bottom right...lunar lander?) that one stone/rock/boulder/ IS NOT bathed in shadow?

And whats that white stick/snake like thing in the CIRCLE of stones (remember no wind atmoshere to cause circles) just above the LH astronaught?

Use a photo editor and zoom in to see these things......and save the image as a bitmap so you cant say its jpeg comp.

These aren't my pics they're NASA''s....i'm just pointing out things.
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andyalderConnect With a Mentor Commented:
I was quite young in 1969, but old enough to remember it being shown on the big black and white TV with a tiny screen.

They are not conventional mirrors that measure the distance from the eatth to the moon, it's corner cube reflector like used on the back of cars next to the tail light, a mirror wouldn't necessarily reflect back to where the light source came from. But that's no proof of man being there, it could have been pout there by robotic craft. Nick asks why the Fox special didn't mention the reflector on the moon, it's called selective reporting Nick, you spend 55 minutes putting the case of it being faked and 5 minutes putting the case of it not being faked. You can tell Fox was itself embarassed by the report - no mention of it on their own web site, nor a transcript. There is a conspiracy here, Fox conspiring to pretend they never made the report!

>Who needs to know if there is life or water on Mars? are we all going there to live?

It's not a case of needing the water to live, it's a case of if it's there it can be split into hydrogen and oxygen to provide the fuel for the return trip. If SMART 1 can find water in the lunar craters it would make an ideal base to explore the rest of the solar system from.
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andyalderConnect With a Mentor Commented:
Re monzies picture:

The flagpole shadow is not seen against the leg of the spacesuit because it is overexposed, a classic example of emulsion bleeding.

The shadow is longer because the guy on the right is taller than the one on the left, also he is stretching up and the other is stooping down.

Where the shadow is I don't know, but if it was a mockup you would still expect a shadow but it's missing. Probably lost against the overexposed spacesuit.

The red dot is probably reflection from part of his camera, or may be a light on the life-support indicator. How could it be evidence of a mockup?

The shadow on the left foot looks quite normal to me.

The bottom of the rock in the bottom left IS bathed inshadow, the top must jut up above the shadow, you can see the tops of a few other rocks in this shadow as well.

If you mean just above the RH astronaut it is not a white stick, it's a tripod. Since it looks straight I don't think it can be a snake, one leg and one cross brace is better illuminated than the other two but you can still clearly see all 3 legs. Can't see anything special above the LH astronaut.

>Use a photo editor and zoom in to see these things......and save the image as a bitmap so you cant say its jpeg comp.

The source pic is a .jpg, converting it to .bmp is not going to get back data that has already been lost by the initial compression.
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griesshConnect With a Mentor Commented:
I wonder now if there is some government conspiracy against us. They are just making up this whole EE website to make us believe there are people out there that have computer problems ...

If you don't believe it, you don't believe it. Even if you would go to the moon yourself, how would you be able to prove it actually happened? It could all be just imagination. Have you ever watched the "Matrix"? I KNOW we are all part of it, but I am comited to get out.

</unsubscribe>
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LordRipperAuthor Commented:
LOL @ Grieshh ....... I also are going out ......
but first I would like to say thankyou to all who took part in this little question .......
Now I still believe the truth is out there ..... and well Ill find it someday .......
...... umh ...... witch pill must I take .... the red or the purple ???? .... cant remember ...... lol

anyway ..... I think that we got a lot of input in this question and wee all know that the pictures are faik......
but still think that there might still could have been someone one the moon ....... maybe this whole conspiracy of the moon are faik and people are living on the moon for a long time already and none of us know about it ....... well we can go on and on about this ..... but think its time to close this question ....... anyway .... points will be splittef .... but please note that this is a two part question and I will ask the same question in about a mothe so all please collect some more evadaince ......

and have an exlent week ..... ;-)
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LordRipperAuthor Commented:
and a special thanx to griessh, andyalder, nickg5, aorenste32 for all of your research ....... and to all of the experts who posted a comment
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LordRipperAuthor Commented:
well I hope I splited the points correctly
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Muhammad Ahmad ImranDatabase DeveloperCommented:
Thanks for the points but it is my request that when you plan to re - open the question in a new thread please post a comment here so that all the participants here will be informed.

Thanks

LeoAhmad
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LordRipperAuthor Commented:
sure thing .... will do ..... just one little thing did I post this in the correct topic area ???
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Muhammad Ahmad ImranDatabase DeveloperCommented:
Hmmmm in miscellaneous area it's ok
But I suggest, Most relevant is "Math and Science" next time.
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LordRipperAuthor Commented:
ok .... will do ;-)
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LordRipperAuthor Commented:
sorry for posting only now.... was a bid busy.....
but here is the link
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Miscellaneous/Math_Science/Q_21131559.html
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