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IDE Raid, one channel?!?!

Posted on 2004-08-16
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Last Modified: 2010-04-03
Hey guys

I upgraded to an Ahtlon 64 this week, and I had to purchase a new motherboard because of it.

On my old system, I had an IDE raid 0 with two 120gb 8 meg cache WD drives. So I wanted to get a new motherboard with IDE raid so that I could do it again.

Well, after the board was shipped, I realized that it only has one channel for IDE raid.... :(

Question one is: Was I getting a speed boost with my first setup?

Question Two: Is it still worth setting up raid if its only on one channel?


Thanks
~Pent
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Question by:thePENTIUM
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by:cnsspd
cnsspd earned 50 total points
ID: 11810815
You will still see some improvment just not as much as with dual channel, You could also but a raid card with dual channels.
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by:thePENTIUM
ID: 11811017
I would buy a raid card, but "I'm a man of little cash." I'm a actually a teenager, and extra mulaa is hard to come by.



Can you be more specific when you say "Not as much"?

If dual channel raid is 100%, and a plain single drive is 0%, where would single channel raid be?
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cyrnel earned 75 total points
ID: 11811348
Striping will generally show improvement from separate channels so you may not be doing as well as before. Separate drives should still show some improvement, even on the same channel, but there's no way to know the relative performance without testing. You might already be at the limit of the controller, bus, drives, or your application.

By itself, RAID 0 is hazardous in that the potential for data loss increases with every drive in the array. With a two-drive array, ask yourself if the tested gain in performance is worth twice the odds of complete data loss. For general applications and infrequent backups it's usually not the best choice unless you add RAID 1 to the mix. Fun for learning, but a bummer when one drive goes south.

If you have a specific application that needs a boost consider buying a dedicated caching controller, ideally with onboard parity calculation. With the right RAID layout they make a world of difference over almost all of the motherboard-based 0+1 features. Once you get past the experimentation phase, motherboards and RAID controllers definitely deserve separate consideration for how each best fits your requirements.

Good luck,
Dave
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by:Luniz2k1
ID: 11811792
The motherboard you have most likely has SATA on it also.  The single PATA raid port that you have is a part of the raid on the SATA.  You could buy yourself 2 of these:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-999-111&depa=0

And hook up both of your hard drives on the SATA raid ports.  Or just get one, and have 1 on SATA and one on the PATA.
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Expert Comment

by:newParadime
ID: 11814893
"The motherboard you have most likely has SATA on it also.  The single PATA raid port that you have is a part of the raid on the SATA.  You could buy yourself 2 of these:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-999-111&depa=0

And hook up both of your hard drives on the SATA raid ports.  Or just get one, and have 1 on SATA and one on the PATA."

PENTIUM,
You will need to buy 2 of the SATA adapters to run a RAID setup with them. You cannot run a RAID setup acros multiple storage controllers (i.e. the drives both need to be on the IDE controller, or they both need to be on the SATA controller. They can't be split over the two controlers and function as a RAID array.
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by:cyrnel
ID: 11817389
newParadime, your comment about cross-controller RAID is true of most stuff I've worked on recently but it's an implementation limit and not a natural characteristic of RAID itself. Especially with *nix RAID implementations, controller boundaries are much less significant. Not to say it's easy to optimize when a stripe crosses IDE to SCSI to USB to Fibre, but it can work.

Dave
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by:thePENTIUM
ID: 11817562
Thanks everyone

Luniz, I like the idea, but that money would probably be better spent on one of those raid controllers that Dave suggested.

Dave, I went and took a look at those cards, and I saw an escalade PATA card for $150, is that about right?


thanks again for your help you guys, I'll probably buy a new card or just use PATA single channel raid until I get SATA drives.

~have a good one
Pentium
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by:Luniz2k1
ID: 11819222
So newParadime, what would all of the people out there do with all of these motherboard that have 2 SATA raid and 1 PATA raid port?  There is no reason why they cannot use both together.  How else would you use the single PATA raid port?  Please explain this.
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by:Luniz2k1
ID: 11819237
>>I would buy a raid card, but "I'm a man of little cash." I'm a actually a teenager, and extra mulaa is hard to come by.
This is why I suggested the PATA2SATA converters.  $40 is alot cheaper than $150.
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by:Luniz2k1
ID: 11819286
And if you decide to go with a PATA raid card, you can get one of these for $20-25:

http://www.siliconimage.com/products/sii0680.asp
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by:thePENTIUM
ID: 11821012
Well I think that they reason they put that on there, is for people like me who have pata and dont want to upgrade to sata just yet. The RAID chipset also comes in a version with two pata channels instead of one, however, my manufacturer (soyo in this case) chose the low end chipset model with one pata channel.
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Expert Comment

by:newParadime
ID: 11821433
Luniz2k1,

Umm, seeing as how the SATA RAID is on a diferent controller chip than the PATA RAID, and a RAID setuup must be pon the same controler chip, you cannot create a RAID Array using the PATA and SATA controllers combined, so basically , PENTIUM you would have to buy to adatpers and put both drives on SATA, i have this exact setup and it works like a charm.
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by:Luniz2k1
ID: 11824136
If the 2 SATA Raid and 1 PATA are not able to be in the same raid array, then what would the single PATA raid be used for?  You need more than 1 device to create an array.  I have an MSI KT4 Ultra here in one of my servers that has 2 SATA and 1 PATA and I have a raid set up between the 3.  There is no use for a single PATA raid port if it cannot be used with the 2 SATA ports.  I would have been nice if thePENTIUM supplied us with the model the soyo so we could have looked at the manual.
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by:thePENTIUM
ID: 11827630
LOL sorry guys, wasn't thinking.

The chip is the same for the PATA and SATA I believe...
Its the M5283 from ALi

http://www.aliusa.com/eng/press/press_release_2003/apr03a.htm
Like I said before, the M5281 comes with two pata controllers, the 5283 has one.

The mobo is the K8USA Dragon Ultra black label edition
http://www.ocworkbench.com/2003/soyo/k8usa%20dragon%20ultra/k8usadragonultra-1.htm
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by:newParadime
ID: 11834159
OK in that case u could use a PATA/SATA combo for the RAID.

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