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Internet Connection

Posted on 2004-08-25
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My LAN, which is made up of one Dell Poweredge server (W2K), one Dell workstation (W2K Professional) and one Toshiba Laptop (W2K XP), does not have any internet connection at the moment. What I'd like to do is install the BT software on my server so that I have the broadband connection, like I currently have on another laptop, separate from my lan. Will this work ok with my lan, or are there any problems I should be aware of?

Peter
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Question by:Peter_Fabri
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by:JonSh
ID: 11893897
The only issue I can think of is that you might need to specify IP addresses to get to LAN resources from the poweredge server.  Since it will have two NICs (one for the Internet and one for the LAN), it will use the default gateway (prolly the internet NIC) to find anything named as \\server\sharename.  You will prolly need to use \\ipaddress\sharename to find shares.  Or, you can use a host file :)

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by:rid
rid earned 50 total points
ID: 11894561
In most cases a solution with a small office or home router is the easiest way to connect and share internet. This eliminates the need for special software and for keeping a computer running at all times to provide connection to internet. Your modem connects to this router and its internal (LAN) port connects with your computers in the switch. Simple, reliable, no-hassle solution.
/RID
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by:JonSh
ID: 11897139
Rid, the way I read the question, Peter *doesn't* want internet access for everybody on the LAN, just the Poweredge server.....but I might have read it wrong :)

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by:rid
ID: 11899620
Ah... OK. We'll find out I, guess.
/RID
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by:Peter_Fabri
ID: 11900026
I would like my LAN to have internet access, but through my server. The trouble is I think my IPS will give my server an IPaddress in which case I would lose the connection the the other client machines. I have given my server a static IP address in the 192.168.x.x range.

I'm not sure if I can get this to work. If it can, can I please have some detailed procedure, as I am not to sure with some of the summarised comments.

Thanks

Peter
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by:JonSh
ID: 11900061
Peter,

Okay, I read you wrong....here's what you need to do (but in advance, the way you have picked is a poor way to do it):

1) Add a 2nd network card to the poweredge server.
2) Connect the 2nd network card to the broadband device.
3) Tell Win2K that is is acting as a gateway for other computers (hating win2k, I don't remember where that piece of the setup is :))
4) This will have the effect of making your server into a router as well as a server.

But this is really a brain-dead way of doing it.  Let us know if you want to do it correctly (the way Rid indicated above would be a good way to go ) and we'll walk you through that....:)



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by:Peter_Fabri
ID: 11900072
Ok. Tell me how to sedt it up using the way Rid indicated. I'd rather do it properly.

Peter
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by:JonSh
ID: 11900134
Peter

1) Purchase a Soho router...I'd recommend a Linksys BEFSR41 as perfect for you, nice and cheap too.
2) Connect your router to your broadband connection. Chances are your connection is DHCP (they gove you an address on the fly) so no changes are necessary.
3)Connect your 3 computers to the router.
4)Change the TCP/IP properties on each computer to "obtain an address automatically."  You can then either tell the workstations to do the same thing for DNS servers, or manually add "192.168.1.1" as a DNS server.
5) Reboot the workstations and you should be up and running.

:Jon

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Author Comment

by:Peter_Fabri
ID: 11920318
What I have is the netgear ADSL Firewall Router. Unfortunately I can't seem to logon to the router following the instructions (http://192.168.0.1 User name "admin", password "password"). Also, the ADSL indicator isn't satying on when I switch the power on, it goes amber for a second then nothing. At the moment it is only being used a hub.

Any ideas to troubleshoot this? Perhaps I amn using the wrong device for what I want and the device I want is the one specifed by Jon.

Peter
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by:JonSh
ID: 11928257
Hmmm...I don't know the netgear product very well, but it sounds like you are using it correctly.  Perhaps someone used it before you and changed the default account/password?  Are you entering the user/password combination with the proper case, *exactly* as shown in the documentation?  Or did I read you wrong - is it even prompting you for account and password?

If the ADSL light isn't staying on, we probably have other issues but we need to log on to the router to dertermine what they are.  

BTW, I only recommended a router before, not a router/adsl modem combo.  You'd still need to purchase a separate adsl modem, apologies if I wasn't clear about that.  Would you like me to specify a decent adsl modem?

And now for one small bit of nitpicking, I bet you are using the box right now as a switch, not as a hub :)

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Author Comment

by:Peter_Fabri
ID: 11929810
My network  (LAN) setup is a test environment at home, so there is no external interference. I may have a configuration issue here with regards my LAN/router. I have given my server - and my workstations - a static IP address so I am not using DHCP but the NETGEAR documentation specifies that I need to connect the router to a computer (my server) that is automatically set to get its TCP/IP configuration from the router via DHCP.

I'm lost here as the documentation says what you need to do but not how!

Guidance is needed, please!

Peter
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by:rid
ID: 11930226
"........ I need to connect the router to a computer (my server) that is automatically set to get its TCP/IP configuration from the router via DHCP. "

Sounds odd. If you know what IP the router has on the inside (LAN), say 192.168.0.1, you can set static IP's on the same subnet (192.168.0) on your computers and use the router as default gateway to the outside. I haven't ever heard about DHCP being *required* for the workstations; I guess this is an instruction aimed at the not-so-knowledgeable user who doesn't want to bother with static IP's.

Can you browse to the router's setup web page? If so you can probably turn off DHCP server on the router or at least set the IP pool to a few IP's that you haven't used already for your workstations.
/RID
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Author Comment

by:Peter_Fabri
ID: 11930300
At the moment I do not have internet connection on my LAN. I didn't think this was necessary in order to configure the router/firewall. I wonder if I am better off with separate devices rather than an all-in-one! I shouldn't have to change my ip addressing to suite the ip address of the router!

Still stuck and need help.

Peter
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by:JonSh
ID: 11930783
okay, the netgear box is at 192.168.0.1 with a mask of 255.255.255.0  (according to the documentation).  What is the address and mask of your server that is attached to tthe netgear box?

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Pete Long earned 150 total points
ID: 11930891
agree with the above

>>"........ I need to connect the router to a computer (my server) that is automatically set to get its TCP/IP configuration from the router via DHCP. "

I think your slightly misinformed - Im guessing the router needa a MAC address to CLONE from the PC/server you set your internet connection up on (the ISP will lease an IP address to this MAC address so routers CLONE the mac address so they can talk to your ISP)

Your set up is similar to mine
I have a windows 2000 server hosting www.petenetlive.com thats connected wirelessly to my Linksys router, my XP box originally had the internet connection and my router now has it (it cloned the IP of my XPBox) plus an assortment of wireless notebooks and wired print servers.

The root of the problem is you need to get into the router - does it have a reset button on it?

set up your connection to your ISP from the server using your ISP CD's
then introduce your router (once your into it or have reset it)
then add your clients.
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by:JonSh
ID: 11931147
petelong, yup...either it needs the mac address from a dhcp transaction, *or* he put his network together corectly and used the 192.168.1.n convention, instead of the weaker 192.168.0.n convention....I'm not sure they are on the same subnet yet :)

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by:Pete Long
ID: 11931177
:) no worries - wasnt jumping in - peter asked me to take a look - looks like youve got everything covered - so I'll lurk <smile>
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Author Comment

by:Peter_Fabri
ID: 11931339
My private IP addressing is of the format 192.168.1.x. I reset the device, but still cannot log on to my router!!!

Peter
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by:Pete Long
Pete Long earned 150 total points
ID: 11931365
QT006 - Default Username/Password for Netgear Routers
http://www.fulton.net.au/qt006.htm
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by:JonSh
ID: 11931758
lol...feel free to jump in, this is a public discussion and let's see if we can get him working.

Peter Fabri..if your server is 192.168.1.n with a mask of 255.255.255.0, then you and the router are on two different subnets.  You are going to have to change the address of your server to 192.168.1.x tempoarily (I recommend 192.168.1.202 since I'm sure you haven't used it :)) and then you can talk to the router.  First thing, change the router to 192.168.1.1 and then change your server back to its original address...

....sigh, this would be a 10 minute phone call and we'd be done, lol
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Author Comment

by:Peter_Fabri
ID: 11931940
Presumably you mean to change the address of my server to 192.168.0.x as I am already using 192.168.1.x?!

peter
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by:Pete Long
ID: 11932136
no hes correct

192.168.1.x and 192.168.0.x are different networks (on a 255.255.255.0 network) put everything on 192.168.1.x
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Author Comment

by:Peter_Fabri
ID: 11932187
But how do I change the router's IP address? That's the one with 192.168.0.1 address and assigned by default.

Peter
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by:Pete Long
ID: 11932237

192      168         1             1
<network part....><--host--->

why?

192.168.1.1 your PC sees as

11000000  10101000  00000001  0000001

your subnet looks like

255.255.255.0 which your computer sees as


11111111   11111111   11111111   00000000

your PC performs an ADD statement on them to find out what network you are on (if your rusty on bollean logic both have to be a 1 for the answer to be a 1)

11000000   10101000   00000001   00000001
11111111   11111111   11111111   00000000 AND'd together make

11000000   10101000   00000001   00000000 which WE see as

192.168.1.0  <--------thats your network

if we did the same with 192.168.0.1 the networks would be different :)

Pete
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by:Pete Long
ID: 11932251
are you sure 192.168.0.1  is the address of the router? and not 192.168.1.1
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Author Comment

by:Peter_Fabri
ID: 11932268
I understand binary maths, but my router's address is on a different subnet! That's what I should be changing to be in the same subnet!

Peter
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by:Pete Long
ID: 11932310
if you CANT get into the router the you can change it - so change the client to match the dotzero subnet
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by:Peter_Fabri
ID: 11932311
The documentation states to log on to the router I type http://192.168.0.1 in my web browser! I tried 192.168.1.1, that didn't work either.

Peter
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by:Pete Long
ID: 11932358
are you sure this router works?
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Author Comment

by:Peter_Fabri
ID: 11932499
I'm beginning to wonder about the router. I temporarily changed the ip address of my server to the same subnet, 192.168.0.x and still couldn't connect. At least when I have the ip address set to 192.168.1.x a pop up window appears asking for a username and password!

I tried pinging 192.168.0.1 but 4 lost packets were returned!

Peter
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by:Pete Long
Pete Long earned 150 total points
ID: 11932534
OK peter its safe to say that the IP of the router IS NOT 192.168.0.1 if you got a pop up window with your client on 192.168.1.x the the router is also on the 192.168.1.0 network :)

most routers are (mine is)
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by:JonSh
ID: 11932603
Ack, I've just about had it... Mr. Fabri, you can sit here and argue with what we tell you or you can work with us.  Let's be very clear:

1) the router and any workstation (I don't care which) must be on the same subnetwork to communicate
2) the router is on the 192.168.0.0 subnet and the machine you are using is on the 192.168.1.0 subnet.  they cannot communicate.
3) the manual is assuming you have dhcp turned on at your machine and this would then no longer be an issue.  The manual is correct.
4) since you are unwilling to change to dhcp, change the machine to the 192.168.0.0 network so it can communicate with the router.  pick whatever host address you feel appropriate as long as it is different than the router's address (BUT ON THE SAME SUBNET)
5) when you can communicate with the router, change the router to the 192.168.1.0 subnetwork.  At this time you will then lose communication again with the router.
6) now put your machine back on the 192.168.1.0 subnetwork.

This is the first time I've gotten cranky on here, so I do apologize.  Perhaps I should just back out and you will do what you will do.  Alternatively, I suppose I could post  my phone number and we could fix this rather quickly - I have no idea if that's allowed or not.  but right now, I have a headache.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

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by:JonSh
ID: 11932631
wait a sec....scratch my last post.   if you are getting a popup window, you are communicating with the router....if you can't log on to it, the router is either broken or is using a different account/password combination than you seem to feel is correct.

gah
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Author Comment

by:Peter_Fabri
ID: 11932642
Hey, JonSh, sorry if my problem is giving you a headache, but if you read further back, this was already suggested and tried but with no luck!!!
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by:Pete Long
ID: 11932654
<LOL> have a coffee Jon :)
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by:Pete Long
ID: 11932666
pop up windows mean you are on the same subnet :)
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by:JonSh
ID: 11933165
No it's not the problem giving me a headache, it's my own poor communication skills.  If the router is challenging you for accout and password, then all the subnet stuff is the wrong tree cause we are alrady talking to it....this is now a security question...either we have the right account/password answer for the challenge, or we don't, or the box is broken.  Can we please have the exact model number of this netgear product?
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Author Comment

by:Peter_Fabri
ID: 11939690
I have the Netgear DG834. The internet LED comes on and is amber, then goes off! I think I've asked this before, but is it absolutely necessary to have the ISP software (in my case from BT) already installed? I was under the impression that you should be able to configure first.


Peter
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by:JonSh
JonSh earned 50 total points
ID: 11942486
Peter Fabri,

http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/N100651.asp

the link above may help you talk to your router.  Among other things, it notes that the password on older versions of the DG834 is "1234" and not "password"

As regarding the BT software, you aren't going to use it.  The DG834 will be making the connection to BT.  I imagine you may have to do some configuring as I'm not sure of the protocol that BT uses (PPPoE perhaps?).

Yes, should always be able to configure your router :)
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by:Pete Long
ID: 11955884
ThanQ
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