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Citrix 3.0 takes up my Terminal Services licenses after installing

I recently installed Citrix 3.0 on our Terminal Server which has been running Terminal services for over a year just fine.  Remote users have logged on just fine but we decided to try out Citrix for its added benefits.  At the current time we just purchased the 5 licenses that come with Citrix.  We also have 30-40 Terminal services CALs.  

We went through installation and everything seemed good.  Tested the citrix connections and all worked as well as still connecting via TS.  
The problem is when more than 5 users connect to this server.  When the 6th person connects, they get an error saying not enough licenses.  Why would Citrix take the Microsoft Terminal server licenses?
I assumed both could work on same server since one is RDP and the other is ICA?

Has anyone run across this?  I heard from another tech that the previous metaframe versions ran fine with RDP connecting simultaniously.  What changed on 3.0?

Thanks
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kencruzan
Asked:
kencruzan
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2 Solutions
 
tebacherCommented:
You can connect via RDP or ICA, but both are going to need a Citrix license.
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kencruzanAuthor Commented:
How can Citrix steal Microsoft licensing?  That would seem illegal.  I don't believe it used the terminal server CAL's before version 3.0.
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syn_ack_finCommented:
This is by design because of the way Citrix handles the RDP web client. See this support document:
http://ctxex10.citrix.com/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=62&threadID=50766&tstart=0

Sorry, no way around it.

Good Luck.
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tebacherCommented:
I guess I've never thought of it as stealing, but it's a good term to use in your situation!

Basically, you can't turn citrix off after installing it so the 6th user that connects isn't using it.  When Citrix see's that 6th user and doesn't have a license for it, it just turns it down.  You can't revert back to just using TS for the 6th user...

Does this make any sense??  I don't know if I'm getting my point across clearly.

Citrix is not cheap, and you will need a citrix license for every client connecting to your server.  Even if you have 10000 TS licences, you'd still need enough Citrix licenses for all the users connecting to it.
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kencruzanAuthor Commented:
I appreciate both your help.  I split points as this was my first time to post and I'm not all that sure how it works yet.  I understand now the reason but I sure don't like it.  I can't believe Microsoft allows this to happen after all it is taking away from their product.  I just hope Citrix finds a better solution in the future as I think they are loosing a lot of business because of this issue.

Thanks again
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kencruzanAuthor Commented:
Okay, what about installing Citrix on a totally seperate windows 2003 server.  If there is a 2000 server acting as the domain controller, another 2000 server acting as the terminal server and I add a 2003 citrix server, will there still be licensing issues for that terminal server?  It seems that the licenses are controlled by the DC.  I would hate to try solving this issue by having a seperate terminal server and citrix server only to find out that citrix still takes my terminal services licenses.

Any thoughts
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tebacherCommented:
Citrix will NOT work unless you install it on a terminal server.  

You really need to think of Terminal Server and Citrix as 2 seperate entities that work together.  You need the MS CALS and Citrix Licences for a user to connect.  Run out of EITHER and your users won't be able to connect.
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kencruzanAuthor Commented:
Yes, but I have all the MS CALS.  I am not adding people to our terminal server.   I am just spliting the users in half.  Lets say I have 20 remote users with 20 TS CALS and 20 MS CALS.  I want to keep 10 on the current TS server and move 10 to a new server running TS and Citrix.  Eventually, I plan to put citrix on the current TS but I don't have enough citrix licenses at this time.  I needed to split the number of users anyway and have a backup TS server for emergency so I decided to get the second server.   Like I said, when I eventually have citrix on both servers, I can do load balancing.

I tried putting Citrix 3.0 on the current TS server and I only had 5 Citrix licenses.  After installing, the darn citrix took my TS CALS so I could only log 5 users on at a time wheather I used RDP client or ICA client.  

Will I have the same problem even with two seperate servers?
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tebacherCommented:
If these 2 Citrix servers were setup to communicate with each other (in the same farm), they can share Citrix licences.  I think you'd want to do this if possible, as I don't think you can take some of your licences out of citrix to put into a different server.
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