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Questions From a Novell Newbie.

Posted on 2004-09-09
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Hi,

I am playing around with an old version of Novell Netware (4.11) and I've got a few questions about it's administration and management.

1. Installation. I think I have successfully installed my first Netware 4.11 however I cannot get the network drivers to load. I am using a Compaq NC3121 Fast Ethernet NIC and I have download the driver from the compaq site in a .NLM format.

During the Installation Netware does not find my network card so I try to use the third party installation. I insert the floppy with the driver but it does not fin any drivers!? It says it is look for a .LAN file but I cannot find it. What do I do from here?!

2. Administration. I believe that the administration of a netware server is done remotley from a client. What software do I need to successfully administer my Novell Server from my Windows 2K pro desktop and where do I get it from?

3. Service Packs and Patches. How do I obtain and install the latest service packs and patches for my Novell server. I believe that the Service Packs for Novell 4.11 went up to SP9!!

Thanks for your help.
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Question by:hardybarlow
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Expert Comment

by:TheBalance
ID: 12014982
In answer to part 3 : the software for administration is supplied by netware and you will need rconsole.exe (it will be on f:\public somewhere) to access the netware console and nwadmn32.exe also on f:\public - you will probably find a directory called win32 which has some other utilities which I never found a use for
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Author Comment

by:hardybarlow
ID: 12016182
The Balance,

Sorry mate, you've lost me (Easy, I know). To Clarify, is you answer to part 3 or 2?

I will need rconsole.exe for what? What does rconsole do? Is it on the Netware CD? Do I need it to download/apply service packs? Where do I rconsole too? My Netware server or a Novell ftp/web site?

Also, f:\public where is this? On my Netware Server? On the Netware CD? What does nwadmn32.exe do?

Do I need to install the Netware client on my W2K box or will Client Services For Netware suffice for administration?

I know very little about Netware. I'm just trying to get it up and running so I can have a real look around. At the moment I have a Netware Server sat there with no network card configured and a prompt of 'NERONW4:' sat there looking at me.

My experience is mainly with Windows so I'm lost without a GUI......
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Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 12016192
1) NIC drivers are not .NLM files. They are .LAN files in older versions of NetWare (like you have - v4.11 was released in 1995, or 9 YEARS ago, and is seriously dated); newer versions use .HAM. I would suggest that you have downloaded the wrong file from Compaq (are you even sure they support that card on that old a version of NetWare?) What is the EXACT filename of the .NLM file?

2) Yes, user administration on that older version of NetWare is predominantly done at a Windoze client. The software ships with NetWare. Look at SYS:PUBLIC\WIN32\NSADMN32.EXE

This is a native Windoze app and is the primary administration tool for that old version (it has since been succeeded by ConsoleOne and iManager, Java and web-based, respectively). Simply run it from that location. any user may run it, but unless the user ID on the workstation has sufficient NDS rights, they won't be able to do anything except look.

Note that you MUST run the Novell Client 32 on the workstation. Do NOT use the M$ Client for NetWare Networks. It is deliberately-crippled crapware. If you do not have it yet, download Client 32 from http://support.novell.com and install it using the CUSTOM install option (it gives you this choice when you run the setup program). Select IPX only, since you have such an old version of NetWare (the latest is v6.5, and v5.1 is the oldest, still-supported version).

Other useful utilities in SYS:PUBLIC\WIN32 include (as I recall - its been awhile since I even saw v4.11) the NDS Partition Management utility (PARTMGR) and I think also the Remote Console client was in there (RCONSOLE).

3) Novell maintains an extensive support site at http://support.novell.com, and fortunately for you, they still have their library of NetWare v4.11 patches and fixes at http://support.novell.com/filefinder/2125/index.html. Indeed, Support Pack 9 is the last SP for NetWare v411, and it was issued almost 4 YEARS ago. The "newest" file in that download area is January of 2002, which is about when formal support for NetWare v4.11 ended.
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by:PsiCop
ID: 12016373
RCONSOLE.EXE lets a client workstation access the NetWare Console - over IPX, in your version. You can generally do the same things at your workstation that you could do if you were sitting at the server's console (there are some limitation - for example, you could not enter the NetWare debugger). You must have RSPX.NLM and REMOTE.NLM loaded on the NetWare server, and the password administration for this functionality is not tied to NDS.

Fortunately for you, Novell maintains an extensive documentation library, and the documentation for NetWare v4.2 (a very close relative to v4.11) can be found at http://www.novell.com/documentation/nw42/index.html - probably 99% of that documentation is relevant to v4.11.

F:\PUBLIC is ambiguous. A drive letter can point ANYWHERE on a server. If you login with no login script, there is a default login script that will run, and it will tend to map F: to the SYS:PUBLIC directory on the server. Note that you have to have the server talking on the LAN, and you don't have that yet, apparently, given your first query.

Do NOT use "Client Services for NetWare". 1) its garbage 2) its designed to make a Windoze box look like a NetWare v2 server 3) its garbage

The prompt with NERONW4: is the "server console prompt". It is a command-line interface to the NOS. NetWare did not start to include a GUI until NetWare v5.0, when they introduced a Java-based, X-Windows styled GUI that could be launched from the server console (and is, by default, on later NetWare versions).

I *seriously* question your choice of NetWare v4.11 for gaining familiarity with NetWare. That's a 9 YEAR-old version, no longer supported (you're lucky this is NetWare and you can still download patches/fixes and documentation - show me M$'s support for NT v3.51). You are not learning anything substantive about modern NetWare, TCP/IP networking, Native File Access Protocols, Apache, Tomcat, MySQL, Perl or anything else with which modern NetWare ships.

If you are, as you say, lost without a GUI, I strongly recommend that you step down to Borders or whatever your fave local bookstore is and find a reference or two on administrating NetWare. They ARE published, I see that at Borders on a regular basis, I can't speak for other bookstores.
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Accepted Solution

by:
ShineOn earned 125 total points
ID: 12018488
Actually, F: defaults to SYS:\LOGIN, which is accessible read-only even if you are not logged in.
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Author Comment

by:hardybarlow
ID: 12019470
I guess the main thing here is just to get the damn thing on the network if possible. Anyone who gets me going get the points.

I've installed Netware but the Network driver is not working. I've download the Netware 4.11 driver from the Compaq web site for the Compaq NC3121 Faste ethernet driver. This file is cp001970.nlm.

Now, where do I go from here?
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Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 12019531
Yes, the CLIENT will default you to SYS:LOGIN to facilitate login, but once you login, the default login script will point F: at SYS:PUBLIC. Which is what I said.
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Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 12019599
OK, according to the Compaq website, you have downloaded v8.07 of the driver, which is for NetWare v5. NOT NetWare v4. It may or may not work on NetWare v4 - there were some significant architectural differences between the two, not the least of which multi-protocol support. I caution you here and now that the software you downloaded may not load on NetWare v4.11, or if it does, it could cause ABENDs (crashes). It is probably NOT compatible with such an old version of NetWare (nor is it reasonable to expect a driver written in August of THIS year to be compatible with a NOS version from 1995).

According to the Compaq website, you have downloaded a self-extracting archive. At the NetWare console prompt, enter --> LOAD <volume>:<directory path>\CP001970

For example, if you placed the NLM in SYS:ETC, then you would enter --> LOAD SYS:ETC\CP001970

This should bring up a the self-extraction utility, which will unpack the file, probably to C:\NWSERVER and/or SYS:SYSTEM

It is possible that this NLM will not load on NetWare v4 - like the driver it contains, it was written for NetWare v5.x and later.
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Assisted Solution

by:DSPoole
DSPoole earned 125 total points
ID: 12019604
1)  Compaq drivers - the .NLM file you downloaded is not the driver per say (that's what the .LAN files are) but an installation module to install the driver.  If you can get the .NLM to a spot on the server, run it from the server's command line.  It will install the .LAN files for you.  Then you would use LOAD INETCFG to set up IP and IPX (since it's NetWare 4.x, you will have to rely on IPX for client/host connectivity).

2)  Once you have the proper NIC drivers installed and connectivity to the server established from a workstation, you can use the NWADMIN32.EXE program located at SYS:\PUBLIC\WIN32\ to admin the server and the NDS tree.  You can use RCONSOLE.EXE located at SYS:\PUBLIC\ to get remote console access to the server from the client computer (again, assuming you've configured Remote Access from the INETCFG module properly).

3)  Support Pack 9 for NetWare 4.11/4.2 as well as all other patches can be found here:

http://support.novell.com/filefinder/2125/index.html

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Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 12019605
I said this before, but it bears repeating:

I *seriously* question your choice of NetWare v4.11 for gaining familiarity with NetWare. That's a 9 YEAR-old version, no longer supported (you're lucky this is NetWare and you can still download patches/fixes and documentation - show me M$'s support for NT v3.51). You are not learning anything substantive about modern NetWare, TCP/IP networking, Native File Access Protocols, Apache, Tomcat, MySQL, Perl or anything else with which modern NetWare ships.
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Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 12019662
I agree, if you want to work with a more up to date version of NetWare, download NetWare 6.5 here:

http://www.novell.com/products/netware/eval.html

Patches and Support Packs here:

http://support.novell.com/filefinder/18197/index.html

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Expert Comment

by:BlackTigerX
ID: 12020121
I guess is not a good idea to mention that I'm still using Novell 3.75... =o|
it works really nice though... 100+ users, all at once, no problems whatsoever
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Expert Comment

by:ShineOn
ID: 12020196
Novell is a company, not a product.  I'm not aware of them having any products with a version of 3.75.
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Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 12020227
3.75???  The last 3.x product for NetWare was 3.2
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Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 12021503
Wasn't there a BorderManager v3.7?
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Expert Comment

by:ShineOn
ID: 12021905
Yes, but not a 3.75.  It went from 3.7 to 3.8, which (I think) is the current version.
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Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 12022030
3.8 is the current version, there never was a 3.75.  But this is moot.
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Author Comment

by:hardybarlow
ID: 12025146
Dspoole,

Does the eval version expire after a period of time or does it just allow a minimum number of connections.

I will try the other stuff this weekend. Cheers.
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Author Comment

by:hardybarlow
ID: 12025184
PsiCop.

Check out the Following link:

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/support/files/networking/us/locOsCat/31_58.html

This is the driver I have, it's dated 27 Aug 02 and it's version 6.38. The web page states that this driver is for Netware 4.x too.....
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Author Comment

by:hardybarlow
ID: 12025199
BTW,

C:\NWSERVER is a directory created on my DOS partation and contains all the system files, Correct?

SYS is the directory, Correct? How do I copy files to and from the SYS directory from the command line? Also how do I navigate from there too? I assume he commands are different from DOS.
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Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 12026398
Evals for Novell products generally allow a limited number of connections. Back in NetWare v4 days, the eval licenses were additive up to 10, I think. I don't think that do that any more.

OK, v6.38. You didn't state a version previously and so I went to track down a driver on the Compaq website, and I found v8.07. This is why it always helps for you to state everything about your environment, helps us Experts avoid blind alleys.

I'm looking at the page you reference and some of its sub-pages, and I'm not finding an explicit statement of support for NetWare v4, altho it can be inferred from statements on the revision history page.

I assume you have successfully unpacked the driver file, right?

You cannot copy things to/from a NetWare Volume from the DOS command line. DOS does not understand the NetWare file systems. Using *stock* NetWare v4.11, I also do not think there are any utilities for copying files to/from DOS partitions.

What you CAN use is NetWare Toolbox, available from the Novell Support website (go to http://support.novell.com/cgi-bin/search/searchtid.cgi?/2941752.htm). Since you've got such an old version of NetWare, you'll want this older version of Toolbox. Newer versions have more functionality, but may have problems on such an old version of NetWare. Anyway, download that and put it on diskette. With the server up and running, put the diskette in the floppy drive and at the console prompt enter --> LOAD A:\TOOLBOX.NLM

Toolbox will give you a DOS-like command set at the NetWare console prompt (COPY, ERASE, DIR, CD, MD, et. al.) The included documentation explains how to use it - its fairly simple, altho the NetWare drive/directory specification syntax is slightly different from DOS, so you end up with constructs like --> COPY A:\TOOLBOX.NLM SYS:SYSTEM

That puts a copy of the Toolbox on your server in the SYS:SYSTEM directory, and you can subsequently load it with --> LOAD TOOLBOX.NLM (and can dispense with the diskette). The Compaq NIC drivers can be copied in the same fashion and should be placed in the same location.

C:\NWSERVER is the directory the v4.11 installation created on your hard drive. It generally contains copies of the disk subsystem drivers (files that are loaded in STARTUP.NCF).
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Expert Comment

by:ShineOn
ID: 12028253
SYS is not a directory, it is a disk volume on a NetWare partition.

The stuff in C:\NWSERVER is what is needed to get NetWare running.  Most of the rest of the NetWare system files are in SYS:\SYSTEM and are only accessible/loadable once NetWare has been loaded and the SYS volume has been mounted.
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Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 12028701
without having to download TOOLBOX, you can use:

LOAD NETBASIC
SHELL
COPY <sourcefile>  <destinationfile>

ie:

COPY A:\DRIVER.LAN  C:\NWSERVER\DRIVER.LAN
COPY C:\NWSERVER\MODULE.NLM  SYS:\SYSTEM\MODULE.NLM


You can't do wildcards.

I think if you don't install NetWare 6.5 with a license, you are limited to TWO connections.  How many licenses for NetWare 4.11 do you have?  I have a THREE user license disk that Novell used to just give away.

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Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 12028844
Is NETBASIC in NetWare v4.11? I can't recall.

The NetWare v4.11 CDs shipped with 2-user licenses that were additive. Get enuf CDs and you could have a 10-user network. :-)
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Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 12028890
yes, NETBASIC was included with NetWare 4.11

it was part of the IntranetWare product line.

I don't remember the 4.11 2-user licenses being additive...
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Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 12028978
Memory IS the second thing to go, DSPoole. :-)
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Author Comment

by:hardybarlow
ID: 12029420
When I go to load the driver it starts doing it's thing and then says that 'clibaux' needs to be loaded first.

I go to the Novell site and download clibaux and it is encapsulated in a self extracting .exe file.

When execute the file on windows based PC the file does not 'Self Extract'. I've also tried to do the same with the toolbox and this also has this bloody crap feature of not extracting. Why the did they not just have the clibaux.nlm file availble for direct download? Is there any need to encapsulate file the size of 0.0000000001 kb!?

Any ideas as to why this don't work?

P.S. That Netbasic thing doesn't work either. Sure, I load Netbasic and then run 'Shell' but it makes bugger all differnce. Still can't copy....
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Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 12029494
I suspect that you can't copy because certain OS supporting modules have not been loaded yet.

Something is really wrong here. I don't think you have a clean install. I would suggest to you that you put the Compaq NIC drivers on diskette, then shut down the server, wipe out the C:\NWSERVER directory and re-install. When it comes time to configure the NIC, you can tell it to get the drivers from the diskette.
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Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 12029538
did you try loading CLIBAUX manually first?

LOAD CLIBAUX

also, the NETBASIC COPY command is tricky - you need to specify the source AND the destination file...
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Author Comment

by:hardybarlow
ID: 12033615
PsiCop,

This is the problem, I have the .NLM file on diskette and when I do a clean install and ask to install drivers from another source I specify the location on the floppy. However, because the file has an .NLM extension and not .LAN it doesn't like it.

DSPoole

Tried 'LOAD CLIBAUX' but it comes back with 'Unable to find load file CLIBAUX'

Also, the NETBASIC COPY looks quite straight forward to me (I'm a Netware Novice, Not a complete novice)

I've typed in:

LOAD NETBASIC (This Loads a few .NLM files and tells me to type SHELL to start the interactive shell)
SHELL (Loads the TLI.NLM and NB.NLM)
COPY a:\cp001970.nlm SYS:\SYSTEM\cp001970.nlm (This returns ??? Unknown Command ???)
COPY a:\cp001970.nlm SYS:\SYSTEM (This also returns ??? Unkown Command ??? I take this to mean 'COPY' doesn't work as opposed to incorrect syntax)

Anyway, back to these self extracting .exe files from the Novell site: http://support.novell.com/cgi-bin/search/searchtid.cgi?/2955000.htm , why won't the self extract?
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Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 12037207
you have to put the self-extracting files in a folder at the root of your C: drive because they won't extract to a folder on the Windows desktop due to the long file name structure of Windows.

Hence, create a folder at the root of your C: drive, put the executible in there and then extract them.

If the NetBASIC COPY command is not functioning, it sounds like you've got a bad NetWare installation.
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Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 12038481
I agree - and I think I said that  in my 9/10 @ 2:15pm ET Comment.
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by:DSPoole
ID: 12041173
Maybe YOUR invisible ;) because your 9/10 comment is!
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Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 12044032
Ooops, sorry, I was wearing my One Ring....

Well, you said (9/12 @ 1:31am ET) "If the NetBASIC COPY command is not functioning, it sounds like you've got a bad NetWare installation."

And I had said (9/10 @ 2:15pm ET) "Something is really wrong here. I don't think you have a clean install."
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Expert Comment

by:DSPoole
ID: 12047627
ah, I was looking for a comment about extracting an archive to long folder names.
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Assisted Solution

by:gjohnson99
gjohnson99 earned 125 total points
ID: 12313090
nic driver are in *.lan. you most get *.lan drives


admin util in nwamin.exe in public\win32


you can get the sp's from www.novell.com
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Assisted Solution

by:PsiCop
PsiCop earned 125 total points
ID: 12318589
A faster link to NetWare v4.11 support files, specifically, is --> http://support.novell.com/filefinder/2125/index.html
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