In Lotus 5.0.8: why does it delete questions sporadically?

I use Lotus Notes 5.0.8 here at work and have noticed
that it sometimes "loses" some of my e-mail - when I
have not deleted it !!  There are messages I know I must
have gotten, yet I cannot find them.  There are days during
which I have no messages listed, yet I know I have gotten
at least one message per day.

What causes this?  Is it just a peculiarity of Lotus Notes that
I have to just live with?  I think this may be the case, but I am
not sure.

This question is caused by my inability to find an important
e-mail that I know I got, yet that is not listed.  Makes me wish
I could just use Yahoo e-mail here are work - then at least
my Inbox would be - and stay! - complete!  But I am stuck with
Lotus Notes.  :(   Mebbe I should just print out every single
important e-mail I get, and copy all those to a Word document.
If I do that, I would *know*that my e-mail would not just
disappear at random, and I could easily back them up.
(Paper is *very* useful for many things!)

I await your replies.  :)

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Sjef BosmanGroupware ConsultantCommented:
Check the Replication Settings of your mail database (File/Replication/Settings). Under Space Savers, is Remove documents not modified... activated??
Are there database quota imposed on the users?

PS Paper is EMP-proof! Let's make a backup on papertape or punchcard :)
SP_fanAuthor Commented:
Thank you, "sjef"!

I wish what you suggested was the cause of the problem,
but it is not.  I just lookeda that box and the box nest to the
words "Remove documents not modified in the last [combo
box lets user set a number] days was not checked.  <sigh...>

Nice try!

Yes, we have a kind of quota on documents stored on the
server here at work,b ut this is handled by a program that
automatically deletes all messages older than 3 months.  It
runs once a month, and we get ample warning before anything
is deleted.  I archive everything before the deadline.

LOL - your last sentence!  LOL!  

Seriously - paper does have its uses - or "affordances", as some
call them.  You can read a fascinating and very informative article
about what paper is very good for: "The Social Life of Paper", by
Malcolm Gladwell, which appeared in the "New Yorker" in 2002:

I still wonder what is going on......

Sjef BosmanGroupware ConsultantCommented:
If you don't mind, I'm going to ponder over it, with my eyes closed and snoring softly (what my wife complains about I still don't know). I'll read your link tomorrow (I hope), thanks!

Eh, no funny agents in your database, are there? No funny people with funny privileges in your ACL? I need some sleep...
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SP_fanAuthor Commented:

LOL!  No problems - go have a greatr weekend, and don't
even think about this lil' ol' problem of mine.  I can live with
it.  (I have no choice!)

Hmmmm....."funny agents" in our database?  I dunno....
What is a "database agent"??
Funny people in our "ACL"??  What is an "ACL"?  
(Besides the initials of a 1950s-era railroad back East:
the Atlantic Coast Line.)
It could be your view index out of sync...

ctrl + shift + f9 should do the trick of updating the view index.. if that doesn't solve then run compact - C and updall on the database.. and don't forget to run fixup too to rectify any corruptions.

last refresh the design with mail template


Sjef BosmanGroupware ConsultantCommented:

I did think of it, by the way, and a first question would be: can you find the document in the All Documents view? See Views and then All Documents. As it says, this view shows all documents, i.e. mails sent AND received.

Some explanations are not enough, I fear, but I'll try anyway. I'd suggest you consult your Domino Administrator first. I don't mean a program but a human being who runs a 24-hour cleaning service from 9 to 5. Contacting him will be most fruitful, as it is very difficult to explain the Notes oddities to a layman (sorry).

The ACL, or Access Control List: see File/Database/Access Control, you'll see a short (or large) list of people having access in some way to your database.

An Agent is a piece of code that can be activated either manually (a button) or scheduled. Such an agent may create, rename, move or remove documents, and a whole lot more.

The inbox is NOT a view but a folder. It can happen that mails are removed from a folder but are still in the database. That's why you can look at the All Documents view. You can see a folder as a kind of property of a mail document, a mail can be in a folder but it is not required.

Every view or folder has an index that can get out of date or corrupted. Hemantha describes how to repair that index. It is best you ask the administrator to do all that.

Keep us posted?
SP_fanAuthor Commented:
Thanks, sjef, for the great explanation of what
tbose acronyms meant!  No, I do not feel insulted
at all that these computer programs are too complex
to explain to someone who does not have the
background to understand them.  I myself have
a lot of knowledge in some areas that is really too
complicated to explain to someone who does not
have a good background in those areas.

I will ask our IT people to see what they can
do to keep Lotus Notes from deleting messages
remotely without my consent.  We already have
a program that deletes all messages older than
3 months - and this prgram warns the user well
in advance of the deleting being done, so there
is no reason whatsoever to allow anyone to
delete messages without the addressee's consent.

Yes, I will keep you-all informed about what I learn
from our IT people, and no, I would never even
think of trying to change any programming in my
computer or repair anything - without expert help.

SP_fanAuthor Commented:
This problem makes me more determined than ever
to print every really important e-mail, since so many
people I do not even know can delete messages
without my consent or even knowledge.  

Please read "The Myth of the Paperless Office" to
understand my other reasons for deciding to
print many things.
Sjef BosmanGroupware ConsultantCommented:
You are Manager of your own mail database! Whatever my administrator did, I kicked EVERYBODY out of the ACL, except for me, myself and I, and the servers. Not even the Administrator, although it is risky. The other guys out here are already familiar with my constant state of paranoia ;)

There is a better way to update your ACL: see Actions/Tools/Preferences. In the preferences dialogbox, go to Access & Delegation. Shove anybody out who shouldn't be there according to your own definition. If your company standards (awful things) demand that secretaries (or other people) should have access, then give them the lowest access that allows them to do what they need to do.

My mailfile is MY mailfile!

Sjef :-|

PS Please apply the above with a lot of common sense and subtlety, properties I don't have by nature ;)

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SP_fanAuthor Commented:

Thank you very much for your very helpful suggestion, but:
when I checked the dialog boxes, I saw that they all were
blank - : ) except the box at the bottom, which begins:
"For administrative purposes...".  This box contains my name AND the
names of several different groups within my company. :(  :(  -
and ALL are grayed out to keep me from deleting all those other
people.  :(  :(   :(

I completely agree: MY e-mail messages are MINE, and NO ONE
but ME should EVER be allowed to delete ANY of the doggoned things!

Deleting my messages keeps me from being able to do my job
properly and well, doggone it!  Yes, I archive everything - and
do so regularly, but guess what?  Recently my dratted Archive
disappeared!  Probably thanks to someone I do not even know
messing with many of our Lotus Notes files.  :(  :(    I did get back
some of the missing messages - after a lot of hard work, but most
of them just disappeared into the ether, never to be seen again!  :(  :(
And when I Archive my e-mail, it is very hard for me to find where the
Archive is on my computer!  Really!  Lotus Notes leaves a LOT to be
desired, as far as I am concerned.

IF I had been disciplined enough to save every important message in
a Word document, I would STILL have them.  Oh, well...such is life....
At least I have a job to complain about the imperfections of!  :)  :)

So.......I will give you full points for answering my question, and for
doing a superb job, too, even though the answer meant that I cannot
solve my problem - I have to just live with it.  I am VERY happy with
EE, because I have learned a LOT about how my computer and various
programs and applications work.  I may not be happy with what I learn
about reality, but at least I know the limitations of these various programs
and applications.  This is A Very Good Thing.  : )

Thank you both for helping me - and so quickly and with kindness
and humor.
Sjef BosmanGroupware ConsultantCommented:
Do one thing for me: open your mailfile and click File/Database/Access control. Your name should be listed there, but probably they gave you Editor privilege?? ANY normal Notes setup wil give EVERY normal Notes user MANAGER rights to his OWN database. If not, I give you permission to send a link of this EE-question to your 'administrator' who hath little faith in ye all. I wouldn't trust him/them...

As you know, Jam Tomorrow, Jam Yesterday, But Never Jam Today...
SP_fanAuthor Commented:

Thank you very much for your help!  Now: when I followed your instructions and looked to see who, if anyone, has "Editor" rights over my Lotus Notes database, I saw that the box is blank!  There are no names at all in it!!  And the "Add", "Rename" and "Remove" buttons area all grayed out, so I myself cannot add any names to that box.  : (

When I looked to see who has "Manager" rights over my Lotus Notes database, I saw my name and the names of 4 groups.  At least I am a "Manager", whatever that means.  : )

I looked at the "Log" and saw that the last date anything was recorded there was back in 2002, when my company updated one of the pop-up boxes that we all see when we log on.  No biggie - that is a company policy everyone is supposed to see.

I agree that it is wrong to allow anyone but the individual user to delete or change any messages, but that is what I have to put up with, as a part of my job that I cannot change.

Yeah, we workers are getting treated as though we all are basically untrustworthy slackers by most companies, and mine, sad to say, is no exception.  Why is this?  The number of manager jobs is far, far greater than the number of really qualified people to fill such jobs.  So we all just bumble along, and do the best we can with the tools we have and the managers we have.  I try to have compassion for other people, especially managers, for I would not want to be one.  Managers, please note this strange fact: the best way to get people to be trustworthy is to trust them!

I never expect perfection - I would just like to see somewhat more common sense and mutual respect in the workplace than now exist.  Unfortunately, common sense is an endangered species, and has vanished entirely from some environments.  But that's life.

I would love to send this link to this post to the main Administrator for Lotus Notes in my company, but I am pretty sure all that would happen is that I would get in trouble.  The policies about how Lotus Notes is set up in my company are set at a very high level - one far too high for any words of mine to have an effect, other than possibly - or probably - getting me in trouble.  I do try not to behave like a graduate of the "Han Solo School of Action Before Thought", but it is hard sometimes.  : )  I'd rather not dine on my own feet!  : )  

THanks EVER so much for your wonderful and very valuable help, "sjef"!  Mebbe we can chat in the Lounge when I am not at work.  I really enjoy EE - it has helped me a LOT!  )

Sjef BosmanGroupware ConsultantCommented:
I don't Lounge :(   But I do mail :)   See my EE-profile.

Things do not seem to be as awful as I thought. On other thing: in you mail database, do File/Database/Access control, and select Show All at the top. Now you will see everybody in there, with all their permissions. Splendid (UK) or awsome (US)! The images in front of the names indicate the identity of the name behind it, and all with one or more puppets (without strings) are interesting since they denote (groups of) people.

You said that the last update to the ACL was early this century, so it seems that there's no one who could have touched your mail. Wrong. The groups in the ACL are named in the Domino Directory or Name & Address book, they can be changed by Administrators and maybe by some other people, but that is not done very often.

Everyone or every group with (access author or reader) AND (Delete documents) privilege can remove mails.


PS You never tried to set up an Archive? To the best of your knowledge?
SP_fanAuthor Commented:

I know all too well that that date in 2002 was NOT the last
time someone in one of the groups who has access to everyone's
mail has done some things to Lotus Notes that made it impossible
for the users (us) to access a number of messages, making it seem
as though those messages had disappeared or been deleted.

Actually, I do Archive - regularly, to try to keep everything
that would otherwise be deleted in the every-3-months purge
my company does.  Please see my comment above about the
problems I have had in keeping - and locating! - my Archive.
It USED to go back to 1999 (I did not Archive until then), but
due to the dynamic nature of Lotus Notes, my entire Archive
disappeared a while ago.  : (  : (  After a lot of work, I finally
found part of it: Year 2002.  <sigh....>  

Is there any way an ordinary, non-expert user of Lotus Notes
can assign a custom name and location to his or her Archive??
I do not think so - at least, not in the version I use: Notes 5.0.8.

I really, really dislike Lotus Notes.  Mayhap I would not dislike it
so much if NO ONE could EVER delete ANY of my e-mail, and if I could
give my Archive a name of my own choosing and put it where I
could find it easily, and if the Bold and Underline and Italic buttons
would highlight when in use, etc.

Thanks - again!  

EE is THE GREATEST!!!!!!  :)  :)  :)

Sjef BosmanGroupware ConsultantCommented:

> Is there any way an ordinary, non-expert user of Lotus Notes
> can assign a custom name and location to his or her Archive??

Oh yes you can. Your archive can be on your local system if you want to. Mine dates back to 3/13/99, so if you're looking for some old mail... ;) I can check how it's supposed to be done in R5, but there must be an Archive-view or so, with a button Preferences? In it you will find where the mail-archive is located. If it's on the server, you can always make a local replica of that archive, and replicate everything to local EXCEPT deletions. See replication settings. Or ask a question ;)

I really, really love Notes, for the things it can do. Notes is Groupware, and you should look at it that way: it is to be used by you AND by your colleagues. Mail is just a simple application, it's not where the great powers of Notes lie. Delve into it some more, you'll find out for yourself! Btw, the name of the archive is of very little importance... ah, you might not use the Workspace? You use the Bookmarks at the left? I prefer the Workspace, but it's a Very Personal Thing. See if you can find it, a tabbed screen with square database icons on it.

Wait for R6, Bold will be visible. But if that's the top prio problem...

Sjef :)
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