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Yamaha Midi Keyboard - Windows XP SP2 - Audigy 2ZS Platinum Pro

Posted on 2004-09-28
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Trying to record new MIDI creations using...  Yamaha Midi Keyboard - Windows XP SP2 - Audigy 2ZS Platinum Pro and Adobe Audition.  Plugged the Midi KB into the front panel, which has the Midi in and Midi out option plugs all looks fine, but no sound results.  Tried various settings; ran DirectX diagnostics (all tests) everything works find except the Midi Keyboard.

What am I missing?  Here are some of the links that I've explored.
http://dmzweb4.europe.creative.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE/,/?St=743,E=0000000000026627016,K=6783,Sxi=0,Case=obj(2448),Kb=ww_english,VARSET=ws:http://us.creative.com/

http://busca.adobe.com/search?site=AdobeCom&client=AdobeCom&filter=0&output=xml_no_dtd&proxystylesheet=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adobe.com%2Fspecial%2Fsearch%2Fadobecomsupport.xsl&restrict=Adobe_com_Train&as_epq=&q=audition+record+midi&x=7&y=14

Creating Wave files using the keyboard creations and microphone works as an interim solution, though, as you can imagine not what I want; having to do noise reduction and other filtering to make them usable.

I'm sure I'm missing some basic setup issue or just not getting the Midi interface issue.

When you check this link:
http://dmzweb4.europe.creative.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE/,/?St=743,E=0000000000026627016,K=6783,Sxi=0,Case=obj(2448),Kb=ww_english,VARSET=ws:http://us.creative.com/

Expand this item to see the visual of how I've connected the Yamaha Midi Keyboard.
Connecting a MIDI device to Sound Blaster card or its accessories

Hope you can enlighten me.

Thanks,
":0) Asta
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Question by:Asta Cu
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12174914
Using the front panel to plug in my electric guitar and create music works fine, just no Midi recording results.
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by:sunray_2003
ID: 12175831
Asta,

Sorry .. Personally i donot have any experience in this kind of a setup so off the mind , I donot have any troubleshooting ideas that I can suggest. I am sure there are many hardwares experts here who can assist you..
Callandor is one of the best guys around.. You may want him to take a look at this question. He can give you some thoughts..
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by:Callandor
Callandor earned 50 total points
ID: 12180037
Asta, are you a rocker in a band? :-)

I know a bit about hardware, but I don't know everything, especially midi.  I do have an M-Audio  Delta410 soundcard, though, and if the Audigy2ZS is similar, you need to change the source in the mixer application to be midi.  

Other than that, you may need to test the keyboard midi port on another soundcard, the soundcard midi ports, and the soundcard drivers.
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12180178
Callandor -->  Tee hee.  I've been writing and creating music for 'fun' the last 40 or so years; but only the past couple of years digitizing them and working to improve them.  I love/create all kinds of music - folk, classical, rock, R&B and so on.  It's a blast, and most intriguing.  Borrowed my brother's midi Yamaha KB, bought cables and can't get it to work whatsoever.  I've not given up yet (hitting head on wall); but sure appreciate any insights you may have on MIDI.  Use Adobe Audition 1.0 and lots of other software; but nothing creates any sounds so surely must be using incorrect settings.

Also sent a note to Creative Labs for the Audigy 2ZS Platinum soundcard and related SW packages in the hopes they can add some insights.  Everything "appears" correct and should be functioning in terms of connectivity; my problems remains, it seems, in setting up the interfaces and correctly loading the Midi controls/drivers.

":0) Asta
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by:sunray_2003
ID: 12180244
callandor is so modest
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12180329
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12180354
They did tell me, though, that:
Please note that you are using the Audigy 2 ZS sound card. There is no
Creative Keyboard in the Audio HQ. The Creative Keyboard is integrated
with the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager.
Which presents me with a tiny little imbeded KB, which doesn't so squat for me.  Not what I want to use.

I'm clearly missing something integral and "obvious".  Seeing with eyes closed or mind blocked.
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12180577
Just blew out one ear: LOL

The Adobe Audition instructions were followed, and "should" work, but doesn't.

Just tested using DirectX diagnostics (all tests for music pass) EXCEPT on the midi side ....  MS Midi Mapper emulated, plays OK; SB Audigy 2ZS Midi IO (B400 Emuldated), zero sound comes through; BUT on SB Audigy 2ZS Midi I02 (b400 Emulated), the keyboard plays and goes crazy.  

Any ideas?

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by:Callandor
ID: 12180596
Hmm.  I have CoolEdit, which is the previous version of Adobe Audition.  Are you able to record anything that is input to the soundcard?  For example, if you hook up an mp3 player to the line-in, can you record what is played?
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by:Callandor
ID: 12180669
Ah, missed your post, which sounds like a DirectX/Audigy2 midi problem.  So whenever you play on the keyboard, the Audigy is not understanding it?
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12180699
Don't have an MP3 player, but have taken old casette tapes and recorded wav files without problems as well as mp3 files in this fashion; records fine in Audition.  Also, using microphone for voice from front panel and recording works fine as well as plugging in the electric guitar to front panel, all record fine.  Only problem is Midi.
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by:Callandor
ID: 12181312
I think I have gone as far as I can with this, then - the problem seems to be the midi port or drivers for the Audigy.  If reinstalling the sound card drivers was already attempted, then I don't have anything more I can contribute.
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by:Panther713
ID: 12181406

Hi Astaec,

My music composition PC isn't setup the way yours is, but here's a suggestion. Go into the Control Panel and check under audio devices and make sure you have the MIDI device selected that you want to use. It sounds like MS MIDI mapper is selected instead of the Creative SB Audigy.

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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12181697
Great thanks to you both; will check this out when I get back there this evening and let you know.
":0) Asta
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12195531
Didn't find a solution there either.  Maddening.  Seems so simple, yet ????
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by:Panther713
ID: 12195832
Yes, that would be very frustrating... but... truth is... been there, done that... :wink:

Have you also checked what the MIDI mapped device is that is being used by Cool Edit... ummmm... I mean... Adobe Audition?

The other thing is that Audition uses GM (General MIDI) sound fonts and the Yamaha synth, like my Rolands and Kurzweil, use special MIDI fonts. I had to load the matching sound fonts for my synths into the SW I use before it would actually play correctly back through the sound card.

I wish I could help more, but I've only used Cool Edit a little bit for a couple of specific things. I use Sonar for composition and MIDI work, but the version I'm using isn't cheap.

Any more info you could give, I'll see what I can think of.

Good Luck...
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by:Panther713
ID: 12195845
Also, when you checked the MIDI mapping, did you do so for Windoze or for the SB Audigy. You need to set it specific for the Audigy output. You probably did that, but I've seen that so many times that it's what I keep coming back to... sorry...

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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12199365
Thanks so much; will check this out and finalize this asap.  Am up to my eyeballs with disk cloning problem that went wrong.  I hope to get back to this issue this weekend.  I sure appreciate your help and tenacity on my behalf.
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by:smeebud
smeebud earned 50 total points
ID: 12201788
You sent this:

Depending on the model of your Sound Blaster products, there are two ways to connect a MIDI device to Sound Blaster: via the Gameport/MIDI port connector or dedicated MIDI In and MIDI Out port on the Sound Blaster Live!Drive, Audigy!Drive etc.
If you have a Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum or any other series that have a separate Input/Output module, you can connect the MIDI device directly to dedicated MIDI Input and Output connectors on the Daughter card, Live!Drive, Audigy!Drive. It is critical to connect from the MIDI Out on your MIDI device to the MIDI In on your sound product, and connect from the MIDI In of your MIDI device to the MIDI Out of your sound card. In addition, ensure that there is no other MIDI device or joystick connected at the same time to the Gameport on the main card if applicable.

Is that the way you have it.

Plus, have you tried "Step Recording" in Cakewalk.
That will let you know if your getting a single.

Bud's Windows Tips and Troubleshooter
Regards, Bud
http://www.wintrouble.net
http://www.wintrouble.net/mp3.html
Midi Made Free MP3s  :)
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12201854
Thanks, Bud.  The connections are right, and I'll see if I can find my Cakewalk CD as well.  I'll check these things out and get back; am in the middle of troubelshooting my other system with Ghost/Clone chaos ...
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12205099
Paste from the CreativeLabs response for the Audigy 2ZS Platinum card and MIDI question:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you are having trouble with a MIDI keyboard and sequencer it is important to realize it can often be the keyboard or software setup causing the trouble.  
To check if this is the case, there is a simple test that may be conducted that is self contained to the sound card itself.  
Complete the steps below in order to avoid conflicts.

1) Hardware setup.  Normally when connecting the keyboard you connect the output to the input and visa versa.  To leave the keyboard out of the loop we just need to feed the signal directly back into the input port from the output.

Sound Blaster Platinum based cards can be connected directly via a single MIDI (male) to MIDI (male) cable.  Just run the cable from the MIDI output port on the Live/Audigy drive back into the MIDI input port.
Other Sound Blaster Live/Audigy, Audigy 2 users may have a little more trouble making the connection, it requires a female to female MIDI style adapter.  You plug the MIDI cable on to your joystick port just as you would normally.  This time use the female to female adapter to plug the output cable to the input cable directly.  

2) Software setup.  You must now setup your operating system to playback MIDI files through the output port rather then synthesizing the signal itself.   To do this you will go  to the control panel and set the MIDI ports.  For most cards this setting will be "SBlive MIDI OUT,  [####]"  or MIDI UART for Win2000/XP.  For the Audigy 2 the rear MIDI          
 port is called SB Audigy MIDI PORT [####], and SB Audigy MIDI PORT 2 [####],  for the port on the Internal and External drives.
Windows 95 or 98.  The options to select MIDI playback device are located under multimedia in the control panel.  Go to start, settings, control panel.  Then double click on multimedia.  There you will find the MIDI tab.  There should be a radio button selected for Single Instrument.  In the box below select   Sblive MIDI OUT [####], where #### represents the IO range of the card.  Then click Apply and OK.   For the Audigy 2 the procedure is the same except
you will choose SB Audigy MIDI PORT, or SB Audigy MIDI PORT 2, depending on the port you wish to activate.

Windows 2000 or ME.  Go to the control panel.  This time choose Sounds and Multimedia.  There will be and Audio tab where you can select the preferred devices for playback.  The bottom one is for MIDI, set it to the SBlive MIDI
UART or SBlive MIDI OUT.  Then make sure the check box for "use only the preferred device" is checked.  Then click Apply and OK.  For the Audigy 2 the procedure is the same except you will choose SB Audigy MIDI PORT, or SB Audigy MIDI PORT 2,  depending on the port you wish to activate.
Windows XP.  Go to the control panel.  If you see a screen that says Pick a  Category, look on the left hand side for an option to Switch to Classic View and  select it.  Now you can select directly Sounds and Audio Devices.  After that is open go to the Audio Tab.  At the bottom of the window you can set MIDI  playback device for the Sblive MIDI OUT or UART. For the Audigy 2 the procedure is the same  except you will choose SB Audigy MIDI PORT, or SB Audigy MIDI PORT 2,  depending on the port you wish to activate.
3) Open the two software applications that will be used in this test.  First, go to the Program files, Creative, SBlive (or SB Audigy) there you can select Audio HQ.  When that is open you can open the Creative Keyboard.  This application does not playback to the external port so you should be able to hear notes when you click on keys with the mouse.
If not, select a bank and instrument from the drop down menus and try again.  Once that is working find and run the Playcenter/Mediasource software and open a MIDI file.  There are usually some sample MIDI files in the Windows\Media directory.  Or you can search for files with the .MID extension. If you decided not to install the Creative
Playcenter/Mediasource software you may use other programs such as Windows Media Player.  However, Playcenter/Mediasource is more compatible with Creative Keyboard and will share the MIDI duties.  Other software may generate playback errors such as "MMSYSTEM ### the specified device is already in use".  To fix that you can try to close all background operations such as any sequencers or virus protection that may be open. You may even try closing Creative Keyboard while you open the third party software.  If you can not get rid of the errors please install
Playcenter/Mediasource from the original installation CD.

NOTE: With the Audigy 2, the Creative Keyboard is integrated with the Creative Soundfont Bank Manager. To
access the program go to:
Start >Programs >Creative >Soundblaster Audigy >Sound Font Bank Manager

Now that all the hardware and software is set up, we can begin the test.  Begin playback of the MIDI file in your media player, at this time you should hear no output. If you do, repeat step 2.  While the file is playing switch back to the Creative Keyboard.  Once active the keyboard may start playing, normally you just need to select OPTIONS button in the lower left and choose the MIDI input port.

NOTE: With the Audigy 2 go to MIDI Devices,  in the Sound Font Bank Manager. Choose SB Audigy  MIDI
PORT , or MIDI PORT 2 under MIDI in, and SB Audigy Synth A, or Synth B under SOUND FONT Device.  With that done click OK and playback should begin as long as the keyboard is the active window.  This will show that the MIDI input and output ports are both functional.  If this is working, then the sound card is fine and you have two remaining options;  That the program you are using to sequence or playback from is not configured properly.  Such as I/O port selections or instrument/bank configuration.  Or the keyboard it self is not sending and/or receiving the signal, thus needing to also be checked for configuration and cables. For either of these cases please contact the vendor of the appropriate device.
Don't forget to check out us.creative.com for your latest drivers, and updates, and Creative Products.

With regards to the issue you are having, I need you to run a keyword search for SID2448 from the link below on MIDI - General Information and Essential Troubleshooting.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hopefully will get into this Sunday, but wanted to let you know I've gotten very good information to test and implement here as well from the CreativeLabs Technical Support Email query about my Soundblaster Audigy 2ZS card and my MIDI roadblock on 'recording'.

":0) Asta
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12243221
The continuing saga....

On the loopback, everything tests out 100% fine!  Tested using their Soundbank, Media Player and MediaSource interface all spiffy as long as the loopback's hooked up.

Tested the KB on my brother's system (different setup and envrionment) KB works fine, doesn't have Audigy 2ZS, doesn't have Adobe Audition.

All tests are perfect until.... I reconnect the KB to my system then.......  sounds of silence.

I just don't get it.  Ideas?
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by:Panther713
ID: 12243916

Then it's definitely either the Audition SW or the Audigy setup. I've used the Creative SB cards from basic to Live 5.1 to Audigy ZS Platinum Pro without any MIDI problems. I don't use CoolEdit or Audition, so I can't comment at all on that. I would check the setup in the SB card SW. Can you use the same music SW that you're brother has to see if that changes things?

I'm not sure what to tell you at this point... Sorry...

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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12244064
Bummer, that was a costly piece of SW (in a digital collection)...  I love it for all other music types; but sure bites for MIDI.  Found an article at Adobe after days of research on Audigy and they're talking about SMTPE for Midi using sequencers.  

Here's the dumb question; would this Yamaha KB include a sequencer?  

I'm leaning towards using the Microphone and key my music that way and filter out the room and mic noise.  My Bro's setup is very different and it's his KB I was borrowing to create some of my music to MIDI format, but seems like a real PIA.  Don't want to disrupt his setup and about to kick the KB to the curb.  Anyway, not licensed for his SW.

Gonna whack away at it one more day, then close this.

Thanks for everything you've done so far to help me.  I sure appreciate it.
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Panther713 earned 400 total points
ID: 12248547

Most of the higher-end synths have a sequencer built in. HOWEVER, before you kick the KB to the curb, read the manual. I don't have my manual for my expensive KB handy right now, but I know that there were instructions for turning on/off the sequencer funtionality. It was one of the functions to allow for use of another sequencer setup for recording ontop of video... (I could be wrong... don't have the manual) Anyway, check that out. You might find that the Adobe SW just doesn't play nice with external sequencers. OR alternately, try going into the Audition SW and turn SMTPE on for your MIDI port. Either way, they need to be talking the same language. If the Audition SW isn't looking for the SMTPE start code and the KB is sending that waiting for the SMTPE acknowledge (sorry, those aren't necessarily the "correct" terms, but that's basically what they are), then the KB is waiting on something that isn't going to happen before it establishes the connection. That would probably be the first thing to try... turn the SMTPE on in Audition (if there's a way to do that... I don't know because I don't use Audition and haven't used CoolEdit in ages)... I never had any issues with this using my Roland E-36, because it just isn't a high-end synth. But with the Kurzweil... that's an expensive high-end synth that has all sorts of capabilities to play with. It can certainly be a PITA to setup, but the SOUND is fantastic...

Good Luck...

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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12248678
Top notch!  Thanks.  Unfortunately, my Bro is not a 'manual keeper', WHAA.
Appreciate all of this, much to explore and will award with gratitude.
Asta
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12249189
Found the model.... it's the Yamaha PSR-500, looking for manual, most links broken (so far); but it's a start!
http://www.sonicstate.com/synth/yamahapsr500.cfm
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12249265
The PSR500/PSR500M is not a General MIDI (GM) instrument, therefore, it is not 100% compatible with units or MIDI applications that utilize General MIDI voice mapping. There are no upgrades to make the PSR500/PSR500M General MIDI compatible.

NOTE: The PSR500/PSR500M can still be used in conjunction with GM compatible MIDI keyboards, tone modules or sequencing applications, with limitations in the area of voice/program change mapping as well as drum instrument channel and key mapping.

Lots more to read... but found a good link at long last.
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Search/SearchDetail/0,6397,CNTID%253D%2526CTID%253D200000%2526CNTYP%253D%252D1,00.html?selectContentType=-1&selectSearchArea=-1&textKeyword=psr500+manual&Submit2=Submit
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by:smeebud
ID: 12250203
Can you insert a midi file like on I've sent you and play it?

SEE:  http://www.wintrouble.net/filepool/picture.jpg
Plus you must have your sndrec32 set like this picture

http://www.wintrouble.net/filepool/rec.jpg

lemme know

If you don't map your midi file to play srom your Audigy you won't hear anythig.

Bud's Windows Tips and Troubleshooter
Regards, Bud
http://www.wintrouble.net

Bud And Boonie's Music Studio
http://www.wintrouble.net/mp3.html
FREE MP3s From Every CD!!


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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12250493
Hi, Bud.  Midi files play fine in all applications, Audition, Media Player 10, etc.  Once, even a quirky thing happened as I had the KB connected and was testing the various settings with diagnostics, the Keyboard started to play, BUT not the song, it was really weird.
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12251452
OOps... overlooked this, Bud.
map your midi file .... doh, not sure if I did, or how to.  Gads, I'm such a novice.  Brain-scortched!  LOL  Will do some reading to see if I know about this in a 'tranquil field'.  
":0) Thanks a bunch,
Asta
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by:smeebud
ID: 12253105
"map your midi file"

Asta, if you look at http://www.wintrouble.net/filepool/picture.jpg  open in new window.
you'll see in the device box an arrow that you cna change from ( No Output To You Audigy )
Choose you sound audigy, Click OK

Click the "S" for solo and you should be able to hear the midi from there.

Bud's Windows Tips and Troubleshooter
Regards, Bud
http://www.wintrouble.net

Bud And Boonie's Music Studio
http://www.wintrouble.net/mp3.html
FREE MP3s From Every CD!!
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by:Asta Cu
ID: 12253491
Thanks a million, Bud.  I'll check link, save JPG to file and view enlarged shortly and get back.

BUT>>>>  this question was closed and was not directly related to my new problem and issue which is Midi Mapping, and therefore opened a new question for just that guidance in the link below:

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Hardware/Q_21160201.html

Although I pasted your information in there, would appreciate it if you could advise me in that further.  My follow up question will be in there (and I have many).

Asta
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