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XP Client 4.90 will not 'see' NDS in Netware 4.01

The company I work for has two servers, one running windows sql something or other and the one I have to babysit, Netware 4.01, both tied to the same router.  My problem is that two years ago I had the first computer with XP and 4.01 would not allow me to make any changes to the users' rights, etc. using the Microsoft client for Netware (it said I was not logged in to NDS), so I installed Novell Client (I believe 4.83) and everything was fine.  I later upgraded to 4.90 and had a real fit trying to get it to 'see' the 4.01 server, saying that the tree and context are not present.  I played with the settings somewhere and got it to work, but I did not write it down.  Now, we have upgraded all of our computers to XP sp2 using Neware Client 4.90 sp2, and none of them 'see'  Netware 4.01.  Can somebody help please?

Caveat:  No, upgrading to a newer OS is not an option, it will not improve the boss's golf game in any way.
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jle1949
Asked:
jle1949
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3 Solutions
 
pgm554Commented:
Reinstall the client using a custom install ,choose IPX only and ignore the other settings .Also deselect anything else (including NMAS).
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PsiCopCommented:
<observation>
You're connecting the latest rev of Windoze to a NetWare version from 1995. That's a version that's 9 YEARS old. Does it make sense to throw all that money at Windoze and leave your NetWare environment languishing, running a version from LAST century?  Sure, you're proving what a great IT investment NetWare is, its still delivering business value 9 years after you bought it, and Novell is still working to make sure it can be valuable to it, but wouldn't it be a good idea to spend a little money on the other side of the wallplate?
</observation>

pgm554 has you started down the right path: uninstall the client, re-install with IPX-only, and with a NetWare environment that old, there's no point installing the NMAS Components. I'd also recommend that you disable Client-side File Caching in the client software (right-click on the red N in the System Tray, choose Novell Client Properties, the Advanced Settings tab, select File Caching to OFF and File Commit to ON. Its Windoze, so you'll have to reboot (using ZENworks, you could auto-distribute the client, and those settings). Its been my experience that the default settings get along with Windoze less and less the bigger the "age difference" between NetWare and Windoze.
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jle1949Author Commented:
PsiCop,
You failed to notice the last sentence in the question, which although caustic, is unfortunately true.  Having said that, I followed pgm's advice and reinstalled the client as instructed.  The day I posted the question, I spent a considerable amount of time browsing through your site, and was able to gain several possible solutions.  After reinstalling, I also flipped the Caching and Commit switches as you indicated, as well as not loading anything else (NMAS, etc.) - I even switched off the XP firewall.  Sure enough, the login function was quite faster than I had seen in the previous installation that worked, but this time, I can see the 'tree' and the 'context' as well as the 'sys' and the 'public' directories, but I cannot see my business files ( which I can see with the microsoft client ).

Quite frankly, I wear too many hats in that organization to spend a lot of time fiddlin' with the file server, and really the only reason I need to be able to log on to NDS is to have minimal administrative access - change user names, assign passwords, set file rights, etc.  It seems that I am able to do this at this stage, but it is going to be a nuisance to have to install and uninstall the client everytime that I want to do this.  Perhaps I might just install a second instance of XP with the client and switch as needed.  Believe me, any help you may offer is greatly appreciated.
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PsiCopCommented:
Yer right, I didn't notice that last comment in your original message. You must work for an old boss of mine.

Frankly, in your situation, it sounds like you need NetWare v6.5, with Native File Access Protocols, which would let the server appear as a CIFS server to the clients.

But if even that is not an option, I'm curious as to why you un-install and re-install the client software every time you want to administer the NetWare environment. Why not simply leave the client installed and then, except when you want to admin the NetWare environment, login with the Workstation Only check-box marked?
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PsiCopCommented:
I'll also observe that in NetWare v6.5, you could use iManager to do most if not all of the administration tasks you're doing now using NWADMIN. So even to admin the environment you would not need the Client 32 functionality, since iManager is accessed thru a web browser.

Mebbe the boss needs to take up a new sport. See if you can get him to go skydiving. :-)
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jle1949Author Commented:
The observation about installing and uninstalling is because with the Novell client installed, XP does not see the files (which I have mapped as my F: drive), but Microsoft client does see it but will not let me do the admin tasks.
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PsiCopCommented:
OK, the M$ client won't let you do admin tasks because it is deliberately-crippled garbageware. Its treating your NetWare v4 server like a NetWare v2 server. Small wonder you can't get any administration done.

The files don't mysteriously vanish when you switch client softwares. You must not be mapping F: to the same place when you use the Novell client. If you mapped F: to the same place when using the Novell client, you'd see the files on F:

Also, there is nothing stopping you from copying the contents of SYS:PUBLIC\WIN32 to a local drive and running the admin tools from there.
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choicesolutionsCommented:
The trouble you are having is a little strange, but that's probably because I'm out of touch with the MS Client workings.

I'll see if I can help, but I need some info to get started.

First thing is, let's determin where your F: drive is mapping to:

Open your Windows explorer and look at the list of drives, before the drive letter you will see something of the sort (Public on 'Cs_Srv1\Sys') tell me what you see associated with drive F:

You may also want to open 'My Network Connections' and browse around in there under 'Novell Connections' to see if you can locate the files you seek, if you do then we can have you map a drive to the appropriate location.

PsiCop is correct you shouldn't really be using the MS client, but it doesn't seem as though the Novell environment was setup correctly in the first place, unfortunate.
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jle1949Author Commented:
When I log in with the Novell Client, windows explorer will see 'sys' mapped as Y: and 'public' mapped as Z:.  Using the 'Tools->Map Network Drive' menu in windows explorer, I can see the tree as well as the context, but double-clicking on the context opens up an empty window - no file structure (same thing with the 'Novell Connections' menu).  I have tried every possible installation option of the Novell Client - which means I have installed and uninstalled to my heart's displeasure - with no success.  All of this seems to have happened after installing XP sp2; so maybe there's some obscure m$% switch that's causing the havoc.

Prior to this, I would just double-click on the context to open up the two volumes I had assigned, and then pick one to map to F:.  I would also do the same with the m$ client (which is what I am still doing).
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PsiCopCommented:
The only thing that could cause this is if you're installing the Novell Client 32 to use TCP/IP as its transport, instead of IPX.

I know you've installed the Novell Client 32 a bazillion times, but you need to follow pgm554's original advice and do a *Custom* install and be sure to select *IPX Only*. You may have made the mistake of selecting "IPX and IP", which could explain your problem of being able to see some NetWare-based resources but not actually access them. Be sure that you select an NDS environment, and delete NMAS components from the list of components to install.

That sorry excuse for a firewall in XP should not be an issue, because in your elderly NetWare environment, you're dependent on IPX, not TCP/IP, for client-to-server communications.
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jle1949Author Commented:
PsiCop,
I'm very good at understanding instructions the first time.  I have installed the client with every possible permutation of 'Custom' installation choices, IPX Only, IP and IPX, IP with IPX compatibility, TCP/IP, with NMAS, w/o NMAS, with NICI, w/o NICI, logon to NDS, logon to bindery, etc. ad nauseam (not quite 10 factorial, but close), and I still get the same 'fashizzle' (to paraphrase that great bard of the 21st century - Snoop Dog)
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choicesolutionsCommented:
Sorry I don't have any genius ideas for you, but try getting some of the Client 4.9 SP2 patches from http://support.novell.com/filefinder/18193/index.html and see if they will make a difference.

Also, I'm not sure if someone mentioned it befor, I think they did, but turn of the MS firewall.

You may also want to try the novell support forum at

http://support-forums.novell.com/group/novell.support.netware.4x/readerNoFrame.tpt/@thread@first@F@10@D-,D@none/@article@first

and see if they can help, support for anything lower that NetWare 4.2 ended awhile ago so finding solutions on Novell's site are tough.

HTH, Troy
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ShineOnCommented:
One thing is missing in this whole discussion - default login script.

The Microsoft piece-of-crap client doesn't run NetWare login scripts properly - one of the many things that Microsoft did to try to make NetWare look flawed by flawing their client.

The default login script is probably running, mapping a couple of search drives (Y and Z) and the F: drive.

By relying on the Microsoft crapware client, you have been doing your mappings the hard way - by mapping them at the client side, using the Windows mapping mechanism.

If you do not set up a login script on the NetWare container-level that says "no default" and maps search drives and data drives properly, you will continue to have these problems.  If you want to rely on the crappy Windows client-side mapping mechanism for some reason, you need to turn off login script processing in the client - the easy way is to click on the "advanced" button on the login screen, click on the "scripts" tab, and uncheck "Run scripts."
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ShineOnCommented:
Oops - the command to turn off default login script from within a login script is NO_DEFAULT - I forgot the underscore...
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PsiCopCommented:
Yeah, I keep forgetting that underscore too. jle1949, don't make that mistake.
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jle1949Author Commented:
Thank you all for the time you dedicated to my question.  Even though I have been involved with computers since 1979, I have never spent any time with Netware, so this was definitely a learning experience for me. I'm happy to inform you that Client 4.9sp2 is up and running, although I can't login initially to the Netware server because Client 4.9 crashes tring to read some nonexistent memory ( I have to do a 'Workstation only' login, wait until XP finishes loading up, and then login from the 'Red N'), but everything else works, and I'm satisfied.  I can now move on to put out other fires.  
Thanks again.
JLE1949
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