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video card not being seen

Posted on 2004-10-02
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Last Modified: 2013-11-08
Ok, my sisters computer just died and after testing all the components in it (except memory and cpu which I don't have anything to test them with) I bought a new motherboard for the computer assuming that it had went bad (possibly due to lightning strike since it was doing sporadic things like turning itself off after 15 minutes for no reason, etc...). I got the new motherboard in and put it in but it did not fix the problem. The main problem I am having is that the video card is not recognized by the computer. I have tried 3 different video cards in the machine which I know work and none of them are recognized by the computer (the monitor light just stays yellow on boot). The power supply seems to be fine so I don't believe that is the problem. My next step is to purchase a processor for the machine, however, I'm wondering (before I do that) if there may be some setting or some jumper that I did not set correctly or maybe some connector that would cause it not to see the video card. I also tried reseating the cards. I have unplugged everything from the computer except power supply, video card, processor and memory. Any ideas if I'm forgetting anything or does this sound more like a processor or memory issue? Is there anyway to test either of them (since I don't have a computer that can take either of them to test with). Please let me know what your recommendations are!

thanks
guid
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Question by:guidway
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by:icemanwol
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Would you please post what MB you are using, What OS you have installed, What drivers you are trying, and what video cards you have tried?
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Hi guid, it would help if you could tell us the make and model of the Motherboard, CPU, and Memory, They all have to be compatible with each other.  

You also cannot rule out the power supply, just because the light on the Motherboard may come on, and the drives spin, and the fans all work doesn't mean that the correct voltages are being supplied.  Even 1 volt can make a difference; these components are very specific in the voltages required, and not a lot of tolerance.

I recently bought a new Motherboard (ASUS P4800 Deluxe), everything seemed normal initially, but as you, the monitor wouldn't engage.  I tested everything I could, but was stumped.  I finally removed the Kingston Memory and replaced it with Crucial (recommended in the Motherboard specs) and it is still working great.

Thanks
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by:ico2
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make sure the mobo has the correct settings for the proccessor, try resetting the bios, does the board have an onboard monitor port? is the memory good for the base clock the proccessor is set up for? is everything plugged in correctly? power? try with a pci graphics card. is the pc making any beeps on bootup? if you do not have a system speaker connected then connect one and listen for beep codes, does the normal post stuff still seem to happen (ie: noises from floppy drive etc, do you have any lights  on the mobo that might give interesting info (i have a row of 4 that can either be red or green, they change pattern during the initial boot procedure so i can see where things are going wrong, have you any way to test the power supply? have you any way to test the mobo?
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by:Ultimate_NescaFe
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Hi!

This problem could have 2 possible solutions. 1st : Try to move your ram to another slot (if you have more of them, try just one in each slot,as the bridge might have been burned out somehow). 2nd, try to reset your BIOS, Cmos, by taking out and puting back in (if you can, check your MB manual) the pin on your mobo somewhere near the  battery. If neither of this doenst work, just tell me and we can go further.

Hope this helps
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by:tosh9iii
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I think this is the motherboard he's using:
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=KT3_Ultra&class=mb

guidway posted a question about earlier last week
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Hardware/Q_21147364.html
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by:guidway
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>>Would you please post what MB you are using, What OS you have installed, What drivers you are trying, and what video cards you have tried?<<

The MB is a MSI KT3V (MS-6712) VIA® KT333 Chipset

The processor is an AMD Athlon XP 2100 with Part#
AX2100DMT3C

The memory is DDR Ram (not sure what speed, I forgot to look when it was powered up).

I haven't been able to load any drivers on the system since I cannot even get the monitor to work. The hard drive is not even plugged in at the moment and I can't access BIOS for the same reason above (monitor doesn't activate).

The O.S. on the hard drive is Windows XP

>>You also cannot rule out the power supply, just because the light on the Motherboard may come on, and the drives spin, and the fans all work doesn't mean that the correct voltages are being supplied.  Even 1 volt can make a difference; these components are very specific in the voltages required, and not a lot of tolerance.<<

Could I test this with a voltmeter? what should it display as the correct voltage being outputted?
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by:guidway
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>>I recently bought a new Motherboard (ASUS P4800 Deluxe), everything seemed normal initially, but as you, the monitor wouldn't engage.  I tested everything I could, but was stumped.  I finally removed the Kingston Memory and replaced it with Crucial (recommended in the Motherboard specs) and it is still working great.<<

I am beginning to think it is memory, but I can't rule out that the processor went bad either. I hate to have to purchase both, but I might not have any choice since I can't test them individually. :(
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by:guidway
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>>make sure the mobo has the correct settings for the proccessor<<

unless I'm mistaken (which is possible) I think this board automatically configures itself to the processor

>>try resetting the bios<<

tried that on the MB itself, also pulled the CMOS battery, no change

>>does the board have an onboard monitor port?<<

no, I forgot to add the video cards I tested on this were older video cards (PCI not AGP). One was a Diamond Stealth, another was a S3 Trio32, and the original was a ATI Radeon.

>>is the memory good for the base clock the proccessor is set up for?<<

not sure what you mean here... can you clarify what to do to check that?

>>is everything plugged in correctly?

as far as I can tell. I've triple checked the wires.

>>try with a pci graphics card.<<

tried a pci one that I know works. I don't have another AGP card that would work for this computer.

>> is the pc making any beeps on bootup? <<

nope, system speaker is plugged in. The only thing that happens is that the keyboard lights flash when I press the button and all the fans run and the lights are all on.

>>Try to move your ram to another slot<<

I tried that also, in fact, I think I moved the RAM to every possible combination I could think of and then I tried just one chip (swapping one and then the other).

thanks everyone, any other questions I will do my best to answer.

guid
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by:guidway
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tosh9iii,

you are correct. I should have posted the link before. thanks. :)
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by:guidway
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One other video card I tried is a S3 Trio 64 (PCI again). Does it matter if the video cards are older? I assumed that any of the older video cards would work with any of the newer systems (as long as they were PCI, not ISA).
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by:Justin Malone
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check your power supply :)
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by:Justin Malone
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"sporadic things like turning itself off after 15 minutes for no reason" sounds like a powersupply issue. im assumeing since you said you tested all of the components that you have another working computer and since her computer was working before the possoble lightning strike there shouldnt be any compatability issues with the old hardware. to be more elaborite then my last post of just "Check your powersupply :)" use your PS in her PC then see if you still have the same problems.
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by:guidway
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>>use your PS in her PC then see if you still have the same problems.<<

the problem is my computer is a little older than hers and my power supply is only 250W. Hers is a 420W power supply. Would it hurt for me to try mine in hers or will it mess up hers?
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by:guidway
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"mess up hers"

I mean will it be too little power and damage hers.
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by:_
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>> I mean will it be too little power and damage hers <<    shouldn't matter for just a bare system boot test.  Have you tried taking the mobo out of the case to see if it is shorting on the case? Don't forget to put it on some paper.
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by:_
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note on psu: I should have also said 'as long as yours has all the needed connectors'
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by:Blue_Rishi
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Was the ATI card an AGP card? This board only supports 1.5 Volt AGP cards (=4x/8x). If you used an older 1x/2x/4x 3.3V AGP card, you may have killed the new mainboard. Other common causes of computer not booting, most of them already mentioned:

* incorrectly seated RAM / unsupported RAM
* unsupported CPU / CPU Fan not connected to CPU-Fan pin (usually CASE pin nearby) / No thermal paste
* wrong IDE setup (can cause mobo not to boot)
* corrupted bios / bad bios flash attempt (wrong bios / power down while flashing)
* dead monitor / AGP 3.3 Volt in 1.5 V AGP slot and visa versa
* dead PSU (no fans spinning) / PSU on wrong voltage 110/220 Volt / incorrect connection of   power switch to mainboard header
* short of mainboard to case (check screws / screwholes under the mainboard)
* shorted / dead PCI card, incorrectly seated PCI card
*....

Good luck

Blue Rishi

P.S this mobo only needs a standard ATX connector: http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=KT3V&class=mb
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by:ico2
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when you took out the cmos battery, did you check the power wasn't on and did you leave it for a few seconds?
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by:Justin Malone
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if you have onbord video use that to test it instead of a video card that requires an additional power source, however if that option issnt avalable you can always try putting the falty powersupply in your pc to see if you can generate the same problem however this may or may not cause dammage to your pc depending on how bad it is. that is assumeing that it is the powersupply that is the misbehaveing part. also if you are forced to use your lower rated powersupply simply dont use components that are unnessessary for the test sutch as sound cards floppy drives cd drives. it wont save alot of power but it might be just enough to get it running. but if you really feal like doing the math you can add up how mutch juce each component is take up. oh and good luck!
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by:Justin Malone
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i forgot to add useing a lower rated PS on her pc shouldnt dammage it but might bring up the same symptoms you are haveing now so unfortunitley useing that ps on her computer wont tell you mutch unless it works.
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by:Griffon
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From the sounds of it the issue you are having is that the monitor is not showing you anything. have you tried testing it with a different monitor to check whether that is the problem.

Barring that I would try the bare bones method.

unplug everything from the mobo hd, ram, graphics, sound .. everything save the psu and turn it on it should beep fromt the system speaker (the one thing to leave plugged in ;)) if it beeps add the ram... it should then beep again calling for the graphics card. add that...

if it does not beep for the graphics card then the likelyhood is it is the ram if you insert the graphics card and it doesnt work then you have narrowed it to either the graphics card (or the slot which is unlikely to be damaged as it is a new mobo)

hope this is some help

Griffon

Ps. if you need the beep codes I can get you a list of em.
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by:guidway
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tried using my PSU and no effect.

>>Was the ATI card an AGP card?<<

yes, I have not tested the other (older) AGP card on the new motherboard (I tested it on the older one before I got the new one). My mistake if I confused anyone with that.

>>if you have onbord video use that to test it instead of a video card<<

no onboard video card... the sytem is running on the minimal also

also I did try a different monitor and that didn't help either.

Griffon,
should I leave the processor in when I'm testing all this? If so, how would I know if it is the processor that is bad?
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by:Griffon
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Guidway,

You should not need to remove the processor to test this method. I would suggest though that if you find that the machine is not even getting a beep request for the ram to be inserted that the error occurs at a lower level ie. the processor, motherboard or PSU. If you then test the PSU and have already replaced the motherboard then you are only left with the processor as the error causing hardware.

Since you have a new mother board I would also varify that any of the pin settings for the process that you are using are set correctly (this should be in the manual) and that any pin settings for the ram that you are using are set correctly (sometimes you are required to set the speed of the ram on the board).

It does seem highly poss that if her computer was a victim of static that the processor might be damaged so if all else fails try a spare/replacement processor and see if that fixes the issues.

Griffon.
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by:guidway
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Ok, I finally got around to testing Griffon's idea and nothing happened... I had strictly just the cpu, mb, and psu in the computer. I finally decided to purchase a processor and did so on the internet. I got the processor and installed it in the machine with a proper heat sink and thermal compound and that still didn't change anything.

What seems to be happening right now is that when I press the power button on the computer the fans all kick on and start running for about 5 second and then everything turns off... it wasn't doing this before, the only two things I have not tried at this point is RAM (which I don't have extra chips laying around of DDR) or the psu. Should I purchase a new psu and try that next? or go with the RAM? I'm almost at the point of just telling her to buy a new computer because this is getting a little frustrating...

thanks again
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_ earned 100 total points
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If you tried your PSU on the stripped system and still no joy, then ram is about all that is left.
See if you can try the ram on another system, since you don't have any other to try on this one.

Did you do the stripped system test with the mobo out of the case and on some newspaper, with all the front panel stuff unplugged? Just to rule out shorting on the case or front panel?
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by:guidway
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>>If you tried your PSU on the stripped system and still no joy, then ram is about all that is left.<<

my only concern is that my PSU is much less watts than hers so I'm not sure if that would be a factor or not. I measured the voltage and amperage of the PSU while it was plugged in to the motherboard and wall socket and it is outputting 41.5 milliamps and 1.12 volts. I can't get an accurate reading when I turn the computer on because it only stays on for a couple of seconds.

>>Did you do the stripped system test with the mobo out of the case and on some newspaper, with all the front panel stuff unplugged? Just to rule out shorting on the case or front panel?<<

hey coral,

no, I will try that next also. I was kind of leary of trying that before because (with my luck) I will probably catch the house on fire or something. ;) I'll give it a try when I get home tonight. I'm assuming I should have just the bare minimum plugged in for that test (processor, RAM, video card, etc...) correct?
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by:guidway
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one more thing...

I also measured the output of my PSU in her system and mine showed 41.5 milliamps and 1.09 volts.
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by:guidway
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the measurements were tested by placing the probes in the positive/negative ends of one of the plugs used to power the drives/fans, etc... (in case that helps)
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by:guidway
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perhaps measuring here would be better: http://www.tech-forums.net/computer/topic/show/4480

I'll try this also when I get home tonight.

thanks! (upping points to 500)
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by:wlennon
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guidway, back in the beginning and shortly afterwards, I mentioned that the Processor, and Memory must match the Motherboard specs, and to test the PSU outputs to specs.

Then I read that you tried a PCI video card, that most likely wouldn't help since you cannot access the BIOS to change the default on the Video Card.  

PSU Outputs:

PIN SIGNAL       PIN SIGNAL
1 3.3V              11 3.3V
2 3.3V              12 -12V
3 GND              13 GND
4 5V                 14 PS_ON
5 GND               15 GND
6 5V                 16 GND
7 GND               17 GND
8 PW_OK          18 -5V
9 5V_SB            19 5V
10 12V              20 5V

AGP Voltages: Setting options: Auto, 1.6, 1.7, 1.8

VIA® KT333 Chipset
 - FSB @200/266/333 MHz
 - Supports DDR200/266/333 memory
 - AGP 4X and PCI advanced high performance memory controller.

There were no listed voltages for anything other that the above, and the 6 PCI cards, Default Video is AGP.

Your Motherboard is here with a downloadable manual:

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=385

CPU's and Memory are very sensitive to static electricity, if there were lightening strikes near enough and the system isn't grounded though a surge protector, either or both could be damaged.  You may try getting some new memory, it's relatively inexpensive, and returnable if it doesn't solve the problem.  This would at least either fix it, or narrow it down to the CPU or Video Card.

wlennon
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by:_
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>> I'm assuming I should have just the bare minimum plugged in for that test <<    Correct. I should have said that.    : /

>> concern is that my PSU is much less watts than hers <<  It might be to small, but I fire off PIII's and SocketA's with a 200W. I have several of these and use them for testing 'trashcan' mobo's. I find I don't cry if a bad mobo takes one out.    : D
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by:guidway
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coral47,
I tried taking the motherboard out of the case and putting it on paper and that was no luck.

wlennon,
I measured the voltage on the power supply and they tested to the same specifications as I could find (therefore ruling it out as the problem, I think).

ok. I just purchased a new memory stick to test in her computer but have not had time to put it in for a test run. I'm going to try to make some time tonight or tomorrow to do so though. If this doesn't work... I give up. If only I could test the hardware on a machine that worked (with similar specs) I wouldn't mind continuing, but without being able to test the stuff with hardware I know works for this particular type of system it seems to be a big circle :(

thanks everyone... I will let you know what happens (and sorry for taking so long to get back to this).
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by:guidway
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wlennon,

I just realized you said that the PCI video cards I used will not work since it is defaulted to AGP. I was under the assumption that if an AGP card was not installed it would automatically check the PCI slots for a video card. If not, is there anyway to force the motherboard to look for a PCI card on the motherboard itself (perhaps a jumper?).
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by:wlennon
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On quite a few motherboards have an integrated Video Card of which is normally AGP, according to the manual for the mobo, AGP 4x looks to be the preset.  

Your OS should be Plug n Play as the setting on the board is set to NO automatically, then the preset will be for the AGP Slot on the board, the Plug n Play should recognize the PCI Video card and ask which you prefer.  There will most likely not be a jumper for the Video, onboard or not.

I am not sure that re-setting CMOS would have an effect, but it wouldn't hurt to try, it is Jumper JBAT1 to clear set to pins 2 and 3, turn on the system, the turn it off again, reset the jumper to pins 1 and 2, and reboot.

CPU
Supports Socket A (Socket-462) for AMD® Athlon™/Athlon™ XP /Duron™
processors
Supports up to 2800+ or higher speed

As said in my first post, I hope it is only the memory.  

This is all I could find related to no Screen:

Q: The screen went blank.
A: For AMI BIOS
Rename the desired AMI BIOS file to AMIBOOT.ROM and save it on a floppy disk. e.g. Rename A569MS23.ROM to AMIBOOT.ROM

Insert this floppy disk in the floppy drive. Turn On the system and press and hold Ctrl-Home to force update. It will read the AMIBOOT.ROM file and recover the BIOS from the A drive.  When 4 beeps are heard you may remove the floppy disk and restart the computer.

For Award BIOS
Make a bootable floopy disk Copy the Award flash utility & BIOS file to the said floppy disk Create an autoexec.bat with "awdfl535 biosfilename" in the content e.g. awdfl535 a619mj21.bin Boot up system with the said floppy (it will take less than 2 minutes before screen comes out)

Re-flash the BIOS & reboot.

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by:guidway
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memory didn't work. I've decided to go ahead and purchase a video card next to try in it. However, before I do so would one of you let me know if this video card would work with this particular motherboard? I can't see any reason why not, but thought I'd better check before I mess something else up... ;)

http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=SE-ATI9200SE-64MTV&cat=VCD
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by:guidway
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whoops.. after looking more closely I see that the motherboard supports 4x AGP cards and that one is an 8x. let me look some more. (sorry)
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by:guidway
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by:wlennon
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Yeah, your mobo specs do say 1x through 4x.  I don't see any reason that card wouldn't work.

I have used an 8x in a 4x mobo and it worked okay, but it is not recommened, power required is different...

Just be very sure you have unplugged the PC then hit the start button to discharge any remaining static electricity, I have found over the years that all brands of AGP cards, are very sensitive.  Use a grounding wrist strap if you have on, or at least touch the frame of the case to be sure.

FYI...this is the one I am using now:

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=313398&pfp=BROWSE
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by:guidway
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well... I was about to order the video card and then a friend of mine told me they have one that I could test. I was thinking GREAT!!! until I started asking them about it and they don't know its voltage or AGP setting. I can't seem to find much information about it on the internet besides it appears to be a 4x AGP card. The type of card is a Diamond Viper V770 Ultra ATX 2x16 T3

If I knew this wouldn't damage my motherboard or the video card I would like to test it in this system before purchasing a new one, however if it is the wrong voltage I need to know to go ahead and purchase one. I don't see a voltage setting on the card itself. Can someone let me know if this is the right voltage card for this motherboard? I checked the www.diamondmm.com website and I can't find information about the specifications of older cards (at least this one). If I need to open a new question concerning this, then please let me know. I'm not trying to be unfair with points or anything. thanks

guid
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by:wlennon
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Hi guidway, with the specs of the card I found, as long as it fits with the Mobo (4x AGP) it should work:

Specifications:
32MB high-speed memory
128-bit acceleration with nVIDIA's TwiN Texel engine design
True single-pass multi-texturing
32-bit rendering and 32-bit Z/stencil buffering
300MHz RAMDAC
150MHz engine clock speed
183MHz memory clock speed
AGP 4X/2X Capable
DVD/MPEG2 Support
Active cooling fan and mini-heatsink
InControl driver suite

The drivers for the card are at nVidia's site: http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_61.77

You shouldn't need to intall them just to see if the card works, you will see a sceen at boot-up.

w
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by:guidway
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ok, I currently gave up on the machine for right now. I'll try to look at it when I have more time. I do appreciate everyone attempting to help and although I did not get the problem solved I imagine that something here probably would have fixed it sooner or later, therefore I am going to split points between the participants who tried the hardest. thanks everyone!

guid
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by:guidway
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thanks again and I wish I could allocate more points, since many of you deserved it, but since EE doesn't seem to like that now, I'll have to get by with this. I will let you know if I do find out what the problem is.

guid
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by:_
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Thank you much.    : )

Hope you get it fixed, I'm curious to whay it is.   : )
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