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Cooling Problems

Posted on 2004-10-16
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Last Modified: 2013-11-10
I have a Thermaltake Case and a 3 Ghz CPU with its Heatsink.

1) Recently, the temp probe broke and it was a difficult job to place under the cpu anyway. Now, I can't tell what the temp is by looking at the front of the case.

What other way is there to tell the temp of the CPU without having to go to BIOS all the time?

2) Even though I have removed the temp probe, every so often, I get a series of beeps indicating that the temprature of the computer or cpu is slowly rising (if that's what it still means). It's just annoying. I don't know if the temp is rising out of the ordinary but I don't know what I can do to make the beeps go away. The Thermaltake has about 7 fans so I doubt that the temp is actually rising.

It's been like this for nearly a year now. Any ideas on what I can do to?

Thanks
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Question by:Jetheat
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by:kpaske
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To answer your first question, yes, there is software available to monitor the temperature of your CPU.  Many modern motherboards come with a utility that monitors the temperature, voltages, and fan speeds.  Check the CD that came with your motherboard or the motherboard manufacturer's web site.  If you can't find one for your mobo, try a freeware utility.  Do a search using the keywords "temperature monitor" on winfiles.com or another freeware search engine and you'll find several to choose from.  For example, try this one:  http://www.simtel.com/product.php?id=6400&SiteID=simtel.net

As for your second question, the beeps could be coming from either the motherboard itself, or from a fan controller in the case.  Try checking the manuals for a list of "beep codes" if you are unsure what they mean.  If you are certain that they are coming from the fan controller indicating a rise in temperature, it's very possible that breaking off that temperature probe is causing incorrect signals to be sent, in which case you may need to replace or disable the probe.  In order to help you further, we really need to know which model case you have.
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by:Jetheat
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kpaske, Thanks

I can wait to download the software later coz the beeps is a more serious problem which I need to see to asap.
I've checked the internet for beep codes and everywhere it says "If you have steady continuous beeps, it means cpu overheating".

Even when the temp probe was there, I still had those beeps so I don't think it had anything to do with the probe. I have disconnected the probe from the cpu and have unplugged it from its connection.

Does this problem mean that the cpu is overheating or the heatsink fan has a problem? How can I tell?

I have a Thermaltake III Super Tower Series 2000. I also have a Gigabyte 8KNXP Motherboard. I have a P4 chip.
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by:Callandor
Callandor earned 20 total points
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Everest is considered a good diagnostic tool, as well as a good temperature monitoring program: http://www.lavalys.com/products/download.php?pid=1&lang=en&pageid=3

Did you check the BIOS for temperature alert settings that may be too low?  The existing heatsink on the cpu may not be making good contact  - it could be backwards, the clips may not be fully engaged, or the thermal paste may be dried up (too much is a problem also).
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by:Jetheat
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I restarted the computer and the Temp was 50`C and the Alert was for 60`C

As for the heatsink, I opened the whole thing up today and applied fresh Thermal Paste. I made sure it all sat well. Besides, this problem has been here for the last year.

Any ideas?
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by:Hammadian2
Hammadian2 earned 20 total points
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here's the smallest program to monitor CPU temprature from inside windows

http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone16/cat426/33701.htm

I think if u'r getting more than 60C processor temprature, then u need some cooling solution to save ur CPU
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by:Callandor
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Something is wrong, if you just started the machine and it's at 50C - my P4 2.8c reaches 53C after going full out with a 3D game, and at idle it is 37C.  Are you using a stock heatsink?  Does it feel very warm to the touch?
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by:Jetheat
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I'm using the heatsink that came with the P4 chip.

I touched the surface of the heatsink and it doesn't seem warm. It's actually luke warm. It showed up as 50`C when I restarted the computer after using it for a while.

I guess I'll have to wait till Ive downloaded that program before I can check what the temp is whilst beeping.
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by:Callandor
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If the sensor thinks it's 50C and it only feels lukwarm, then I would say the sensor is wrong, which can happen.  50C should be hot, barely tolerable to keep your hand on.  If the sensor is wrong, you can turn it up higher or turn it off completely.  P4 cpus have built-in temperature cutoffs to prevent it from burning up.
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by:Jetheat
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ok, I have downloaded Everest and that doesnt give a CPU temp, so I also downloaded hmonitor and I have posted the picture from the readings here: http://www.angelfire.com/rings/jetheat/images/cpu.gif

At one time, the cpu2 temp went above 55 I think.

You can also see some volatges in red. I don't know what they mean.
Let me know if u need more info
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by:Hammadian2
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good that u tried hmonitor

ur CPU fan is working at 3000 RPM
which is slow

Probably ur motherboard is reporting a wrong CPU temprature
i suggest that u buy a new CPU fan
a new CPU fan works on around 6000 RPM

if ur problem doesnt solve
then next thing to do is to replace ur power supply
at u can see the +5v is reporting +4.13v, which is (in most cases) not tolerable

So first try a new CPU fan (as urs is slow)
if u still have problems try a new power supply (not less than 350Watts anyway)
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by:Jetheat
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ok,

I have had this fan from new and its been like this ever since.
Will a cpu fan running at 6000 rpm be much louder as this one seems loud enough?

My PSU is a 400W Thermaltake Power Supply.  Everything else which is connected to the PSU seems to be working ok.

Is there anything else I can do?
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by:kpaske
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This is from your motherboard manual:  
http://america.giga-byte.com/MotherBoard/FileList/Manual/manual_8knxp_e.pdf

Question 10: Sometimes I hear different continuous beeps from computer after system boots up.
What do these beeps usually stand for?

Answer: The beep codes below may help you identify the possible computer problems. However,
they are only for reference purposes. The situations might differ from case to case.

 AMI BIOS Beep Codes
*Computer gives 1 short beep when system boots successfully.
*Except for beep code 8, these codes are always fatal.
1 beep Refresh failure
2 beeps Parity error
3 beeps Base 64K memory failure
4 beeps Timer not operational
5 beeps Processor error
6 beeps 8042 - gate A20 failure
7 beeps Processor exception interrupt error
8 beeps Display memory read/write failure
9 beeps ROM checksum error
10 beeps CMOS shutdown register read/write error
11 beeps Cache memory bad

  AWARD BIOS Beep Codes
1 short: System boots successfully
2 short: CMOS setting error
1 long 1 short: DRAM or M/B error
1 long 2 short: Monitor or display card error
1 long 3 short: Keyboard error
1 long 9 short: BIOS ROM error
Continuous long beeps: DRAM error
Continuous short beeps: Power error

From your hmonitor results, I would suspect that your issue is power related, not CPU temp.  Are you running the AWARD bios?
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by:Jetheat
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I see, Yes I am running the award BIOS. You can see the pic here: http://www.angelfire.com/rings/jetheat/images/bios.gif

What can i do about this problem then?
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by:huntersvcs
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You have a CPU running at 3GHz.  I take it, INTEL.  This CPU can run at 70+ before problems start.  Since it appears that you are getting faulty readings that DO NOT correspond to the actual temperatures, it's no wonder you're getting BEEPS!

You stated that the temperature was over 50 and felt luke warm after running for a while?  I'd suggest setting the BIOS alarm for 70 temporarily to see if the beeping stops.  If so, you have one less headache while tracing a repair of your thermal sensors.  The best bet would be original sensors from Thermaltake.  These are caliberated to your front panel and should give you the most accurate reading.
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by:Jetheat
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hunter, I tried placing the temp probe under the cpu but the cpu wouldn't sit properly. Eventually the thermaltake temp probe broke. I don't need it anyway - its more of a hassle. I can still use the front panel to control the temp of the other fans around the case. I'll try setting the alert for 70 and see what happens.
thanks
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by:Callandor
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I, too, think the beeps are voltage warnings, since I know P4 cpus run cool and your physical evidence of touching it confirms that it is not overheating.  You should not have deviations of more than 10% in your voltages, and the display says your power supply is out of spec.  You can replace it with one I have tried and like: Thermaltake Purepower 420W (not too expensive) http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=17-153-006&DEPA=0
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by:kpaske
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First, you should make sure that all of the voltages are set correctly in the BIOS.  Most newer motherboards allow you to tweak a number of settings to allow for overclocking, but doing this incorrectly can really muck things up.  The easiest thing to do is simply resetting it to default settings.  If you aren't very familiar with tweaking the BIOS, I would write down all the current settings so you don't forget to set them back correctly later.

Also, keep an eye on that voltage monitor.  Does it fluctuate at all?  This would indicate that it's not a setting, but more likely a hardware problem.

The next suspect would be your power supply.  Before running out and buying a new one, if possible, swap one out from another system.  I can't remember how many cheap power supplies have caused me problems and eventually needed to be replaced.  Now I only buy high quality power supplies, at least 400W, preferably 500 or more if you can afford it.  Also be sure that it has a nice big fan, and that the rest of your PC is well cooled.  This will increase the lifespan of all your components.
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by:kpaske
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Wait a second, you say you tried to mount the temparature probe UNDER the CPU?  That doesn't sound right.  If there is anything underneath the CPU, it will not seat properly, which could certainly cause voltage problems.  Are you positive that you've installed the CPU correctly, with nothing underneath, and that the pins and socket weren't damaged in any way?
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by:Hammadian2
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I dont think a 6000 RPM fan will ever be louder
actually yours should be louder due to the friction with dust particles

so
get a new fan and try it

if u still have a problem then it's the power supply

YES, ur hardware maybe working ok with a faulty power supply, but your motherboard may not accept this
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by:Jetheat
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kpaske, The Case manual showed me how to place the probe under the cpu. However, most of the time it wouldn't sit properly and that is why, today, I have just unplugged it .

I'm getting 2 stories here.

I'm lead to believe that it's either the Heatsink Fan or the Pwer Supply. I've just checked the PSU and it's a Thermaltake 480W supply which is a good one.

I just can't figure out why the volatge is under 5V and currently the CPU cooling fan is running at 2900 RPM, although I have just started the computer.

Let me see if I can tweak the voltages and then I'll get back to you.
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by:Jetheat
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ok, I have had a look in the BIOS and I can't figure out what to do.

So, I am gonna write it all below. Let me know if I can change something.

PC Health Status

Reset Case Open Status = Enabled
Non-Selectable Items below
Case Opened = Yes
Vcore = OK
DDR25V = OK
+3.3V = OK
+5V = OK
+12V = OK
Current CPU Temp = 46`C
Current CPU Fan Speed = 3590 RPM
Current Power Fan Speed = 3068 RPM
Current System Fan Speed = 0 RPM

Selectable Items again below
CPU Warning Temp 70`C
CPU Fan Fail Warning = Disabled
Power Fan Fail Warning = Disabled
System Fan Fail Warning = Disabled
CPU Smart Fan Control = Enabled

Under Frequency and Voltage Control

CPU Host Clock Control = Enabled
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) = 200
AGP/PCI/SRC Fixed = 66/33/100
Memory Frequency For = Auto
 Non Selectable (2 items below)
  Memory Frequency = 400
  AGP/PCI/SRC Frequency 66/33/100
DIMM Overvoltage Control = Normal
AGP Overvoltage Control = Normal
CPU Overvoltage Control = Normal
 Non Selectable
  Normal CPU Vcore = 1.5500V

Does any of this give a clue?

Thanks
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kpaske earned 140 total points
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OK.  Let's try to clear a few things up.  I don't suspect you have a temperature or fan problem.  Your CPU temp is 46C - perfectly normal.  The fan is running at 3590 RPM.  You have CPU Smart Fan Control enabled.  As your CPU temp rises, the CPU fan should speed up.  All of this looks perfectly OK.

You have an AWARD BIOS and are experiencing continuous beeps.  According to the manual, continuous short beeps indicates a power problem.  If you are experiencing long beeps, it could be a memory problem.  Are the beeps short or long?

If they are short, the hmonitor software supports the theory that your problem is power related.  I've checked the hmonitor help file, which specifically lists your motherboard as being supported by this software, and it should be making correct readings with the default settings.

The only thing that looks unusual in your BIOS is that you have CPU Host Clock Control enabled, which is not the default.  You may try disabling this.  You can also try using F7 to reset to optimized defaults.  This will reset everything to what the BIOS determines to be the best configuration for your hardware.  If adjusting these settings doesn't help the problem, you have to suspect a hardware problem.

It's possible you could have a loose connection somewhere.  If you are comfortable with where everything goes, here's what I would do:  unplug every cable, pull out every card, and pop out your ram chips.  Clean everything really well with canned air.  Put it back together, ensuring everthing is seated nice and tight.  Doublecheck the CPU and be sure it's seated properly.  Start with the minimum:  mobo, proc, ram, graphics card, and one hdd.  See if it's still beeping.  If so, borrow a decent power supply from someone and swap with yours.  One of these steps will more than likely stop that annoying beeping.  If not, you're most likely looking at something more serious like a motherboard or processor issue.

By the way, you said this started about a year ago.  Has it always done this, or did it just start up one day?
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by:Jetheat
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kpaske, Thanks for the feedback,

The beeps are short which, as you say, is a power related problem.
If I unplug everything and replug it, I wouldn't know if it had solved the problem right away as the beeps come and go occasionally. It has nothing to do with how strenuously I am using the PC resources. It just comes and goes as it feels.

This problem started when I placed the temp probe between the cpu and the heatsink. I know this was wrong coz that would not make a good contact. That is why I thought that the beeping sound was just because of the wrong way I had attached the probe, but now that I have disconnected the probe, it's obvious that it had nothing to do with it in the first place  and so I can only put the starting time down to coincidence.

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by:Jetheat
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As an added twist, I figured out how to use Everest and here is the comparison between Everest and hmonitor which shows that both are different:


http://www.angelfire.com/rings/jetheat/images/cpu.gif
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by:tmj883
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1. Thermaltake suggests that you NOT place the temperature sensor under the cpu as excessive pressure will damage the probe:(
2. PC Health Status looks fine.
3. The alarm you are getting is most likley from the case which has an independent alarm along with the temperature probe and not from the mainboard/BIOS.
Suggest; disable the case alarm if possible, get a new temp probe from Thermaltake...install according to instructions(current). Sounds like this has been a problem for Thermaltake and they have changed their instructions about placing the sensor...ask for the probe for free replacment...
T
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by:Jetheat
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tmj,

Where did you read about the latest thermaltake instructions regarding NOT placing the probe under the cpu? Where do they suggest we place it now?
Who do I contact for the free replacement probe?

How can I tell if the alarm is, in fact, from the case and how do I go about disabling it?

Appreciate your help,
Thanks
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by:Hammadian2
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why dont u just try another power supply ?!
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by:Jetheat
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I'm afraid I live in the middle of nowhere and I don't have one available.

Besides, I don't want to go out and change things around if it's a simple problem like tmj suggests.
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by:Jetheat
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I have just uploaded another picture onto the same url above.

I have used yet another monitor and that has different views also. What do you make of that?
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by:Hammadian2
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let's just ignore all sensors
get ur self a voltmeter and measure the voltage of any free power connector coming out of ur power supply

put the positive probe on a red wire
the negative probe on a black wire

if it measure less than say 4.3volts then u definitly need a power supply
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by:Jetheat
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ok, but I'll have to wait till I get one of those.
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by:JoeJJohnsonII
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I have the same exact case, and I have had nothing but problems with the temperature thingy that comes with it. Couple things. Did you completely unplug the sensor? if you have the sensor unplugged, but the alarm still on, you will get periodic beeps from it letting you know that its not working. Try completely unplugging the power from it and see what that does. If you can, try to find out where the beep is coming from: the temp guage or the mobo.

On the CPU: Is it a prescott core? I have the 3Ghz prescott and it runs very hot. I've seen a lot of sites refer to the prescott as the flame of cpus. I had the alarm on my bios set to 60C and it kept going off. Turns out that the normal temperatures (with stock heatsink) for a prescott is anywhere from 40C to 70C. Mine often hits the 65C marker, and Intel says that is well within the normal range.
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by:Jetheat
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JJ

The sensor that leads from the front control unit to the probe part has a connection in the middle of the wire which I just detached. This means that there are 2 pins bear with nothing attached to them.
Since I started this thread, there have been no beeps so it is very occasional. How can I turn the power off for the probe? The Front dials are still connected to the fans for the case.
Also, how do I find out if the beeps are coming from the mobo or the temp guage?

CPU. I don't think it is a prescott. I bought my 3.0 Ghz about a year ago exactly. I think the Prescott came out a little later.How can I check anyway?

Thanks for the help
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by:JoeJJohnsonII
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If you unplugged the the probe from the cable, then the power is off on it. What you need to look at is the alarm. When I unplugged mine, I left the alarm set to like 55C and it kept beeping at me to let me know that there was no temp reading. Since it is only happening rarely, then thats not the problem becuase it would be beeping about once an hour if that was the cause. The alarm is the plastic screw in the bottom right corner. Turn it all the way to the left if you want to make sure its off.

I thought that the beep was more constant, so finding if it is the mobo or temp guage is going to be near impossible. It would need to be more often to pinpoint where its coming from.

To find out what type of CPU you have just download a CPU info tool. The one that I like to use is Cpu-Z. I got it from this link: http://www.cpuid.com/ . It should tell you what core you have. If it doesnt just look at the L2 cache. Prescotts usually have 1mb of L2 cache.
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by:Gaud-wo
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Sorry if I missed something, but I lost track after abot 3/4th of the posts.

Anyway, here's my 5 cents:

Cpu smart fan control - I think this has to be supported by the fan itself, is the fan connector on mainboard 3 or 4 - pins, and is the fan connector 3 or 4 pins?

Thermaltake PSU: I've read some reviews of this PSU with recent P4 setups - a P4 is extremely power-hungry and dissipates a lot of heat. It may very well be possible that the PSU can't take it. A good PSU is Q-Tec 550W (cheapo brand, but after reading good review I tested it on our 3 servers, works excellent!).
Also, did you connect the 4-pin PSU wire tot the 4-pin mainboard connector (next to CPU), this connector gives your CPU power?

The only difference in the Probe programs I see, is the RPM of fans not be the same - this can be normal, as the programs may use their own timings (eg. one prog refreshes every 0.01 sec, the other every 0.001 sec...) - wouldn't worry about that.

When you don't have any access to hardware easily, this of course is quite a problem - you may be able to order some parts and have them shipped, but that depends of your financial situation of course.

I love living in Belgium, we have the 2nd best broadband coverage in the world, and the only thing you see more than corner  PC shops are places with French Fries (which are actually Belgian fries, but half of Belgium speaks French, hence the misunderstanding) ... I have like 5 spare PSU's!
Also gives quite some opportunities - I'm 21y old and vice manager of technical department - may also be because it's 18:36h here and I'm still at work ("officially" I'm off at 17:15, but I love my job here :p)

Hope this helps...

Cheers!
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by:Jetheat
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Thanks guys but the Mobo has blown. In the process of getting a new one. See what happens.

I have split points between several people.
Thanks
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by:Gaud-wo
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Hope you didn't scare anyone.

I once blew my PSU when I was still living with my dad - a few seconds after he came rushing in. Luckily he's a firefighter, he kept his cool :p
Was quite an amazing sight, about 1m (2 feet) of smoke & dust blowing out of the PSU exhaust fan... I tried repairing it and plugging it back in, what caused a 2nd *bang*... Good I placed the metal lid back on, because there was a bump in it made by a blown capacitor.
If the lid wasn't on, the hole would have been in my head! ^_^

Can't you RMA that mainboard?
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by:Jetheat
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Lucky you! I think i'm out of warranty. I've just bought a Asus P4C800-e deluxe from ebay. Its a pretty feature packed board. Looking fwd to receiving it.

Thanks
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by:Gaud-wo
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I've almost only worked with Asus & MSI the past years, and they both pack a lot of features. I've always loved the stability of Asus - my current system is running for 2y now, without one single crash. Only one flaw - it sometimes doesn't detect mouse & keyboard on boot, but that's on 1 boot out of 500.

I just got a MSI K8T800 Neo FIS2R, AMD64 platform. I'm rushing home to further install & test it right now, if it's good it's going to replace my older Asus.

But, in a few months, I am going to switch to AMD 939 with a new AMD64 FX 5x, nothing can beat that right now :)

Good luck with the new board!

May I ask - what was your previous one? And you don't happen to live near Belgium, do you ^_^ I collect "broken down" hardware, often it's quite easy to fix with some soldering skills (or a resourceful dealer).
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by:Jetheat
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It was a Gigabyte 8KNXP. I dont know much about it so I just gave it in to a shop for repair. Oh well, never mind, I will work with the Asus.

I live in the UK.
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