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Please HELP - New assembled computer will not start

Hello-

I just purchased the P4 3.2E processor and ECS PTD800CE-A Motherboard from outpost.com and also the Antec Solution series SLK3700 AMB case from Staples last week.

I am all set to install the new PC but ran into a problem. I have everything connected - the power, auxilary power, IDE drives, PCI devices, etc. When I switch on the machine, only the 3 fans work (case fan, CPU fan and PSU fan) but nothing else. I tried connecting a USB device (keyboard) to the USB port and it dint get power. Also the IDE devices (DVD ROM and DVD Writer) seem to not get power. I double checked all my connections, but could not find whats wrong. The RAM (Geil 512MB x 2 value) and the Harddrives (60gb Seagate barracuda and 10gb Maxtor) are also connected fine, and so is the video card. The monitor also is not showing anything and its LED stays orange.

It sounds wierd, but I will appreciate if any one can think of what could be wrong here. The cpu fan is connected to a slot on the mobo, and works fine, but the rest of the devices are not getting power! If you need more info please post. Thanks in advance for all who reply.
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walletless
Asked:
walletless
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2 Solutions
 
walletlessAuthor Commented:
OK, I just removed the unnecessary devices like HDD, FDD, DVD-ROM, etc. All I have right now in my machine is Video card, CPU, fans, RAM and PSU, but still same problem.. please help :(
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_Commented:
test to see if the mobo is shorting out on the case:

Take the mobo out of the case and put it on a piece of cardboard or newspaper. Hook up CPU, VIDEOCARD, RAM, and POWERSUPPLY. See if it boots.

note: some power supplies might need a HD plugged in to draw enough amps to start up ( data cable not need )
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burrcmCommented:
Is the CPU fan connected to FAN1 or CPU fan, if not it won't boot. This to ensure that the CPU doesn't get fried. The socket on the board will be close to the CPU. You may be in a case fan socket.

Chris B
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rajeev_niceCommented:
My bet would be the Reset jumper... ensure that the reset jumper is not "Short"... or the Reset Connector is not connected by mistake to Power/HDD led. If the RESET jumper/connector is short... u wud have the same behaviour.. except for Fans.. nothin (NOTHING) wud work.

Othrwise try the Power Switch connector... ATX powered boards need to be shorted once to power on the Machine... so.. do connect the power connector with power button maintaining the polarity.


Try it and let me know.
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Hello-

I tried everything mentioned here. Initially, I had the harddrive on, so there was enough power being drawn from the PSU. I also removed the mobo from the case, and put it on the carboard that came along with the mobo, and tried to boot, still the same thing. The reset jumper is not set to short, and all the rest of the jumpers are good too. the CPU fan is connected to a pin named CPUFAN1 in the mobo manual, which is the recommended CPU-fan pin. It is right near the processor.

As for the polarity, I have tried the power switch pin in both directions, but still get the same result. It almost looks to me that I have a bad mobo... will try it today with another mobo and see if that works.
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jonnyz0109Commented:
>> It almost looks to me that I have a bad mobo...
Sounds like a good possibility.  Make sure your PC Speaker is plugged in, so you hear any error beeps while starting up.  If there are no beeps the mobo is not posting (it should even post with just a CPU and heatsink plugged in, and give some error beeps), I would definately suspect the motherboard.

What is your power supply rated for?  I would say you need 350W at the very least, 400W would be safer.

~ Jonny
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Jonnyz-

Ya, I am not getting any beeps either. The speaker cable was the first thing I checked following that! It was plugged correclty, I also changed the polarity and tried, but no difference. I have an antec  350W pSu.

My video card also works, I tried it on another machine. The RAM is also good.. it has to be something with either the mobo or the way I have plugged in the cable. Lets see what happens when I get another mobo.
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rajeev_niceCommented:
I guess the last things remains to be changed is the motherboard. Try a replacement and see if the new board works fine.. which I am hopeful about. Dont forget to test the board outside with only Video, RAM and Speaker and Processor attached.

See if u get display and u can get into BIOS Setup...

GUD LUCK.
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
rajeev-

all you mentioned is already tried. I took the board off, put it on a cardboard with only one piece of ram , video card, power unit and one USB device (keyboard) attached still same result
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Also, I ordered a new mobo yesterday as a replacement. I should get it soon, hopefully that will solve my problem
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jonnyz0109Commented:
I hope you didn't have to pay for the new mobo... there should be some kind of warrantee if it's not too old.  Let us know when it comes in, and use the suggestions made by Rajeev with your new motherboard... Start outside the case, with just Processor (& Heatsink of course), Ram, Case Speaker, and maybe video... but you can definately boot up a computer and listen for the POST beeps without plugging in the video.

~ Jonny
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
I did not have to pay for the new mobo except for return shipping/handling. However, I decided not to use the same mobo brand (ECS) and instead use a better i865 chipset mobo.
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gjohnson99Commented:
Do have the 4 pin cpu 12 volt connector pluged in ? If it is not you will get just what you are having now
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Yes, I have both plugged in - the 4-pin connector (which is very close to the top-right corner of the mobo - nearest to the PSU - what is labelled, I believe as AUX in the manual) and the main power-connector. I should be getting the new mobo in a couple of days so I will try and see what happens with that.
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compfixer101Commented:
have you tried the switch on the back of the psu  it might be the wrong input voltage level   also do you have an ordinary fan the type that plugs into the harddrive plug  and doesn't use fan port type on the board   if so try plugging that on it  and if it spins all is good there and it would be the motherboard  


however I AM convinced that it is the PSU
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compfixer101Commented:
i guess that truth will be with the mobo!!


CF101
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
compfixer-
Thanks for the input/ There are 2 switches behind the PSU. One is a red switch to change between 110v and 220v - this is set to 110v which is good for USA. The other switch it to turn-on the power or off. This is set to ON (otherwise even the fans will not start).

Unfortunately I do not have an ordinary fan to test with. It looks to me that the mobo is bad. I will get one tommorow from outpost as a replacement. I will try that on the cardboard and hopefully if that works I will put it in the case and see. If not, I got the case from staples, which should not be a problem to replace at all since they have the best service in the world!

Will post on this forum with results. Thanks all.
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Alright,

I am going to get a multi-tester (?) from my work for 2 days to test if my PSU is good.. I will test this tonight once I am back home and post the results. Outpost is going to hate me if the PSU is bad :D
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Hello all-

I just got the multi-tester unit from work, and it seems that my case Power Supply Unit is not good.. It was not sending power in some slots at all. i tested using the same kit on my old machine's power supply and it worked perfect.. so its clear that my PSU was bad. Till I get my new case and new mobo (hehe outpost is going to hate me for this) I will keep waiting, after which I will distribute the points if all works good, or continue this topic. THanks all for the help.
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jonnyz0109Commented:
This sounds so much like something I am going through with my computer as we speak.  While playing a game my computer has been crashing, and after about a week and a half I have finally narrowed it down to something in my box overheating... now to figure out what that something is   :o)

Good call on the psu comp!
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
johnyz -

Ideally, a new thread for your discussion would be appropriate. However, I would think that if you machine crashed frequently while you are playing a graphic intensive game, it is most likely your videp card that is over heating. Try putting an extra fan or if you have over clocked, try to get it to normal and see if it helps.
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compfixer101Commented:
No Problem
 PSU's go out frequently even if they are brand new they still could be bad to defects

also Good idea with the tester  dono why i didn't think of that :(  however all is well    except for the mobo coming    

i know i always have a spare PSU for the older mobo on hand in ase i need some drives to be powered or even to work on cd-rom drive since AT psu are easy to turn on and off since they have a switch


CF101
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jonnyz0109Commented:
Wallet - http://www.experts-exchange.com/Hardware/Desktops/Q_21221087.html  :o)

Yeah I am almost positive it is my graphics card.  The trick is to clear out my case a little bit and do some reorganizing, so the card has some breathing room.  Also looking into getting something that will get the air out into the rest of the case away from the vid card.
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Hello-

I just installed my new machine using the replacement mobo. Things went very smooth with installation of the hardware. However, when the machine started, it went to the OS screen, then came the BLUE SCREEN (I could not read what was on it since the machine restarted).

I thought it could be due to driver problems since I just have the same hard drive from my old P3 machine. So I decided to reinstall Windows, and still the same problem.. Please help someone.... !

Also, my processor is running at about 140 F temperature, and the system temperature is about 84F.. is this normal?

System details:
MSI Neo-2 865PE mobo
P4 3.2E Ghz 800Mhz FSB
1GB (512x2 MB) Geil PC3200 RAM ---> Currently I have only installed one chip, so 512MB
60GB Seagate Barracuda HDD
32MB Nvidia M64 Graphics card
8x Samsung DVD-ROM Drive
Antec SL-350 PSU
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Eh... never mind.. I did a clean install on one of the partition (format and install Windoze from scratch) and its working now.. For some reason even after reinstall windows took my old drivers it seems...

Any way, I am moving over my important files to a CD-R and then will clean install my bigger drive and install the OS on it.

Also, for some reason, my DVD-ROM and DVD-writer will not work together.. I have configured the DVD-writer as the master, and the DVD-ROM as slave. Jumper setting seem alright to me.. Will have to check again later tommorow and post back.

I should be able to distribute points by this weekend when I am done installing the mobo driver, etc.. Hopefully I will not run in more issues. Open issues at this points are:

1) Temperature - is 140F alright for CPU.. it sounds very hot to me.. What can I do to reduce the temperature? I have the original Intel CPU fan that came with the processor. Also, my mobo has a fan over its chipset, and my case has a 120mm case fan.. I thought that would be enough with the number of things I have in the box...
2) As mentioned above, for some reason DVD-Writer and DVD-ROM do not work together on the same IDE cable.. I seem to have set it up correctly..
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_Commented:
1) 140F is pushing it, but not unheard of. Make sure that the airflow is not blocked around the CPU. Is this temp with the case open or closed?

2) If you have them both on a 80/40 cable, the ROM might not like it. What are the ATA rating of the drives?
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Coral47:

1- 140F is opened case temperature.

2- This is not an 80/40 cable. It is the same cable I was using in my old machine where the two drives were together on the same IDE connection.
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compfixer101Commented:
i really like to know what 140F  is in Celius    
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Compfixer- 140F = 60C

( Check the conversion applet at http://olikurt.de/java/celcius-fahrenheit-converter.php ) :)
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compfixer101Commented:
Thanks i really like the link too   i put in my favorites for future purposes

hmmm  60C  for an open case  that is pretty bad   noticing  my case is closed and after 4 hours of games and nothing else except for games  also all of this is nonstop  my temp in m case is only about 52C


so i think you should put some extra fans in and have the alarm set to about 75C at the most for the system temp or case temp
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Thanks compfixer..

I think when I removed my processor from the old mobo (which I thought was bad and sent backt o outpost) the grease compund between the processor and heatsink was slightly removed.. this may also be a cause for the heat. I guess once the box closes it tends to get cooler since it has better heat circulation with close box, but even then 60C is a lot..

I might get some grease today from local computer store and see if the cooling is any better. I will see if the temperature remains high, I will buy another 120mm fan - my case can take upto two fans,
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
EH.. its called thermal grease actually. Some one told me that Arctic Silver 3 is good.. will see if my local store carries it, otherwise  I will buy whichever generic one is available.
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Alright, I am looking to close the question now. I as thinking of splitting points between compfixer and coral47. Although no one was able to help me for the first part (when only the fans were working), both these have been very quick at responding and help ful too in their suggestions.

If you think this is unfair, please post here before friday. If I think you have a legitimate point I may add you for splitting.

Thanks all for your help and support. I have a good new machine in a working condition (with minor heat problems, but thats not a big deal since I will apply the thermal compound and/or add  an extra case fan).
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jonnyz0109Commented:
Concerning the temperatures... I just went through the same thing you are - replacing my mobo with a replacement one, and the same thing happened - cpu temps around 130-140 F (I have a P4 2.4).  I was told to use nailpolish remover to get rid of all the old thermal compound off of the heatsink and processor, but after the fact I read somewhere that you should only use concentrated Rubbing Alcohol... in any case I did use the nailpolish remover with Q-tips and got as much as I could off of the heatsink and processor.  Then I used some arctic silver (was 3 or 5 I don't remember - I got it from CompUSA and you should be able to get it at most computer stores) compound, and now my temperatures are stable around 105-110 open case all the time (idles below 100).

As for splitting the points - you give out points to whoever helped you.  Don't feel bad for NOT giving points, the system here doesn't guaruntee "payment" for everytime you "perform a service" if you know what I mean.

For the record - when you replace mobos it is always a good idea to do a clean install of Windows.  If you change the mobo and things are working without that clean install, you are running on good luck  :o)

~ Jonny
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Hi-

I just got the thermal compound, and applied it between my CPU and heatsink. However, now I see a wierd thing happening-

WHen I start the machine, everything get's powered for about one second and then automatically goes off ! What could be wrong? All I did was apply the compound and put the CPU & heatsink back! No devices were added or removed! Please help.....
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Ok, it seems that my floppy drive's power cable was the culprit.. for some reason it seemed to be shorting.. The moment I removed it everything worked, and then I put it back and saw the same thing.. may be the cable was bad? It's still strange though, since it worked just before I put the thermal grease !
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_Commented:
>>  floppy drive's power cable was the culprit <<   That comes under "Gremlins did it".  ; )
The drive might have bit the dust, try it in another system or another one in this one to track it down (drive or power lead).

Split is OK with me.
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
still strange things happening.. I got the thermal material and the 91% alcohol to clean the chip.. applied it per directions (very little, and thin layer), but the temperature still stays high and my machine freezes and restarts on its own (I assume coz my mobo driver is restarting it after certain temperature).

I don't know what to do.. please help. I am using the original intel heatsink/fan that came with my PC..
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jonnyz0109Commented:
Wallet - are you monitoring temps while using your computer?  If you need a utility, I like Motherboard Monitor (http://mbm.livewiredev.com/) - although the author is no longer developing it, the app is still pretty well up to date and has worked with all of the motherboards I have tried it on thus far.

Now this is still sounding like the question I continue to have open.  Try blowing a fan into your case and see if it continues restarting.  That is the only thing that has fixed it for me so far... also, things mysteriously crash when things get too warm in there, including IE and Mozilla Firefox.  As soon as I start a fan blowing in there things are fine again...

~ Jonny
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Jonnyz-

Yes, I am monitoring while operating using the utility that came on the CD with the MSI Motherboard. The case is fairly cool (usually around 32-38F), its just the processor thats hot. Will blowing the fan in the case help? I will any way give it a try this evening when I am back home and see if that helps.
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compfixer101Commented:
this is most likely what you want

a fan on on side of the case blowing in air from outside of the case and on the other is a fan blowing air out of the case      also this is best if the fans go in line with the CPU since that will help cool since it will some fresh cooler air going across the heatsink


also for PSU's  ATX sucks and AT blows  so that should help you out  

also my case i can have ton's and ton's of fan's since it is customized  since i modded out an old case  so i think it is three inch tall gap on the top of the front and the back  which goes all the way on the back and front so each hole is like 3X18"

not bad if i get some fans up there to circulate air

if my new mobo that i will be buying soon gets hot
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
compfixer-

Does this help in cooling the CPU? My case seems cool overall.. just the CPU seems hot.

Also, my case can take upto 2 120mm fans - one at front(that sucks in the air) and one at back (that blows out the air). However, the one at front is not in line with the CPU.. its at the bottom of the case. The one at back obviously is right next to the CPU (below the PSU). I do not have a fan attached to the front right now, since I thought that the case remained reasonably cool most of the time (around 32F usually).
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_Commented:
>> around 32F usually <<   I hope you mean 32C (about 90F). 32F will freeze water.
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Hahah you are right coral, I meant 32C. But the processor seems to be staying around 64-65C idle, and I tried burning a DVD, playing movie, and surfing Internet at the same time, and the temperature was around 78-80C !
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Also, would applying Arctic Silver 5 as the thermal compound help? I am using the cheap thermal compund I got from Radio Shack right now - and from what  I read on certain websites, the thermal compund only helps to reduce 2 degree Celcius or so.. Any suggestions there?
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compfixer101Commented:
any thermal grease should work just that artic silver is more often used thatn the rest  but i wouldn't buy it i would buy the generic stuff that costs less

well it should help coll the CPU

ttyl


CF101
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
compfixer-

I am already using the generic cheap ones from radio shack, but the CPU runs at about 65C idle ! When I am plaving movies from media player, and doing some other stuff, temperature reached as high as 78-79 celcius.

Also, the computer rebooted it self once last night, when I woke up, I noticed that my machine had restarted. So I think the temperature is definitely making the system unstable..
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jonnyz0109Commented:
80C !  For a P4 that is VERY hot!  That is about 175 degrees F... I would definately agree that this temperature is making it unstable.  Something is wrong - either you applied the thermal compound incorrectly, or the heatsink is not doing its job.  The heatsing IS running, right?

I would bring it to a local computer shop and just ask them what they think... it's kind of hard for us to figure out what is wrong without just spitting out the same generic problems that people have.  But in all my experience I rarely see a P4 running above 150 F, and I would tell the person that even that is hot.  I get up to around 110-120 when I game.  My dad's new P4 3.0 idles around 85 F so even then you are idling way too high...

The fan blowing in the case might help it if it was something other then the CPU overheating.  My CPU is not the problem in my setup, it is something else inside the case, so the fan fixes everything for me.
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Hmm... Just came back from work, and switched on my computer, and was surprised to see it at 56 Celcius - still very hot. I will give some load for an hour and see how the temperature rises. I will definitely go to the local mom-n-pop computer store to have them check whats wrong.

The CPU FAN is definitely working - how can I check if the heatsink is running or not??

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walletlessAuthor Commented:
walletLess said: [Q]OK! I just started my machine back on after giving it rest for an entire day, and the temperature when I started was arounf 55 Celcius! I will give it some load in the next hour to see how the temperature rises.

In the mean time, I noticed something funky happening.. The Core Center App that comes with MSI mobo shows an RPM on my Northbridge Fan! Why would that be?? I have ONLY one fan above the heatsink!! Any ideas? I have the screenshot uploaded HERE:

http://ee.1asphost.com/webmihir/core_center.bmp

Also notice the RPM on the NB fan... doesn't it sound ridiculously high ??[/Q]
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_Commented:
>> Why would that be?? <<    Link wouldn't open for me.

I would put an intake fan on the front bottom of the case. It might need the air to move a little more, to take the heat away from the CPU.

>> heatsink is running or not??   He meant the fan. Heatsink itself is just a piece of metal.

>> Arctic Silver 5 <<  Haven't used it myself. But a lot of people swear by it. Will knock a few degrees off.
Lots of links:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Arctic+Silver+5&btnG=Google+Search

picked from above:
http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=121
http://overklokking.no/annet/arctic_silver_5/eindex.html

http://www.techaddicts.net/ArcticSilver5/AS5_1.html
Performance:
3 to 12 degrees centigrade lower CPU full load core temperatures than standard thermal compounds or thermal pads when measured with a calibrated thermal diode imbedded in the CPU core.

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compfixer101Commented:
not really is ounds little above average

however if nothing is connected to the port well then i guess that is reallly high since it should be at zero!!




CF101
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walletlessAuthor Commented:
Ok, I have accepted the answer. My machine seems to be stable at about 52-53 Celcius since past 1.5 days when it is idle. When I give it some load, it jumps to about 65 Celcius. I think this is acceptable till I invest in a better heatsink :-)

I will open a new thread if I run in more problems later. Thanks every one for the hard work and help, this has been a truly enlightning experience

- WalletLess
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_Commented:
Thank you much.    : )

Ain't computers fun?    : D
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