What does it take to write a MMORPG?
Hi all,
I'm asking this question after seeing so many MMORPG-wannabe-developers.
I've seen so many case like:
1) I'm financially strong and would like to develop a MMORPG.
- Has no development experience, no programming skills and such.
- Has a strong business plan but requires good and trustworthy ppl to implement it.
2) I've learnt 3 months of VB and would like to write an MMORPG.
- Needless to say.
- Might make it probably after years and realises that there was a lot more to MMORPG to it than just mere games development.
3) I've an avid gamer and is looking for great gamers and game developers or programmers to join me in my cause to develop an MMORPG.
- Great cause, but no proper planning, no storyline, none of the basic game development elemental requirements present.
- Has many years of gaming experience which could contribute to the game development itself.
We all know, MMORPG is one of the ways where software vendors are able to maintain a continuous source of small but steady income as your customer base pays to play the game every now and then or on per-month basis.
I'll probably ask this question, short but extremely tedious to answer;
What does it take to write a MMORPG? (Technical and Business aspects)
I may not be a great games developer, neither do I have a strong financial support but I would seriously like to see how ppl would approach to write such games of this genre. The one who answers in a realistic, serious, proper and complete manner will get all my points.
I'm asking this question after seeing so many MMORPG-wannabe-developers.
I've seen so many case like:
1) I'm financially strong and would like to develop a MMORPG.
- Has no development experience, no programming skills and such.
- Has a strong business plan but requires good and trustworthy ppl to implement it.
2) I've learnt 3 months of VB and would like to write an MMORPG.
- Needless to say.
- Might make it probably after years and realises that there was a lot more to MMORPG to it than just mere games development.
3) I've an avid gamer and is looking for great gamers and game developers or programmers to join me in my cause to develop an MMORPG.
- Great cause, but no proper planning, no storyline, none of the basic game development elemental requirements present.
- Has many years of gaming experience which could contribute to the game development itself.
We all know, MMORPG is one of the ways where software vendors are able to maintain a continuous source of small but steady income as your customer base pays to play the game every now and then or on per-month basis.
I'll probably ask this question, short but extremely tedious to answer;
What does it take to write a MMORPG? (Technical and Business aspects)
I may not be a great games developer, neither do I have a strong financial support but I would seriously like to see how ppl would approach to write such games of this genre. The one who answers in a realistic, serious, proper and complete manner will get all my points.
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Hi,
if this:
"...prefer the perspective as a President"
is what you really want, then I'd say you are asking in the wrong forum...Your questions tend to be more of a financial nature than a coding one...and, you haven't stated how much money you have to invest. If this is not an exercise of some sort on your part, I would suggest first taking some business management courses, contacting the small business bureau in your city, and getting hold of some books on the subject.
if this:
"...prefer the perspective as a President"
is what you really want, then I'd say you are asking in the wrong forum...Your questions tend to be more of a financial nature than a coding one...and, you haven't stated how much money you have to invest. If this is not an exercise of some sort on your part, I would suggest first taking some business management courses, contacting the small business bureau in your city, and getting hold of some books on the subject.
ASKER
Thanks for your comment.
Alright, I'm out of scope. I apologise for that.
Let's put the scope back in the technical aspect of writing a MMORPG shall we?
Alright, I'm out of scope. I apologise for that.
Let's put the scope back in the technical aspect of writing a MMORPG shall we?
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Ok, you need to talk to consultant. Try these options:
Tom Sloper at http://www.sloperama.com/business.html has a track record going back to the 80's. He works as a consultant or producer.
Noah Falstein at http://www.theinspiracy.com/services.htm also has a track record in game production. He works as a consultant mainly I believe.
Now for the straight-talk, you have no earthly idea what you are getting yourself into. The MMO is the most complex form of a game to make. You'll need at least 10-20 million dollars to create something of Everquest quality, and I think I'm hitting low with that number.
VincentPuglia has said correctly. You are leaving it too open, but he is wrong that you need an idea. Ideas in the gaming realm are a dime-a-dozen. You first need to create a core team (with programmers, artist, etc.) Then you can make a game. BUT that's not all you have to do. You have to find a publisher! Like EA, Atari, or Activision. You need to pander to them in order to get your game on the shelves of Target or Circuit City or Staples.
Of course, this is all if you want to go mainstream. If you want to be an independent developer, then you can buy and engine, and publish the game yourself.
For Engines try:
BigWorld MMO Engine--> http://www.bigworldtech.com/
Torque Engine at garagegames.com--> http://www.garagegames.com/pg/product/view.php?id=1
Feel free to ask anything more.
TheRaiderRobert
Tom Sloper at http://www.sloperama.com/business.html has a track record going back to the 80's. He works as a consultant or producer.
Noah Falstein at http://www.theinspiracy.com/services.htm also has a track record in game production. He works as a consultant mainly I believe.
Now for the straight-talk, you have no earthly idea what you are getting yourself into. The MMO is the most complex form of a game to make. You'll need at least 10-20 million dollars to create something of Everquest quality, and I think I'm hitting low with that number.
VincentPuglia has said correctly. You are leaving it too open, but he is wrong that you need an idea. Ideas in the gaming realm are a dime-a-dozen. You first need to create a core team (with programmers, artist, etc.) Then you can make a game. BUT that's not all you have to do. You have to find a publisher! Like EA, Atari, or Activision. You need to pander to them in order to get your game on the shelves of Target or Circuit City or Staples.
Of course, this is all if you want to go mainstream. If you want to be an independent developer, then you can buy and engine, and publish the game yourself.
For Engines try:
BigWorld MMO Engine--> http://www.bigworldtech.com/
Torque Engine at garagegames.com--> http://www.garagegames.com/pg/product/view.php?id=1
Feel free to ask anything more.
TheRaiderRobert
Hi theRaiderRobert,
re:
"he is wrong that you need an idea. Ideas in the gaming realm are a dime-a-dozen"
Perhaps I didn't explain myself correctly; I thought I already mentioned that uniqueness is not a requirement.
By idea, I mean the underlying aspects of the game, not the plot. For example, are graphics needed? If so, will they be 2- or 3-D? How is time being kept (real time, delayed real time, turn-based)? Is an original engine needed? etc., etc. Having an idea of how the game should play determines how large and what type of a team is necessary.
Vinny
re:
"he is wrong that you need an idea. Ideas in the gaming realm are a dime-a-dozen"
Perhaps I didn't explain myself correctly; I thought I already mentioned that uniqueness is not a requirement.
By idea, I mean the underlying aspects of the game, not the plot. For example, are graphics needed? If so, will they be 2- or 3-D? How is time being kept (real time, delayed real time, turn-based)? Is an original engine needed? etc., etc. Having an idea of how the game should play determines how large and what type of a team is necessary.
Vinny
"re:
'he is wrong that you need an idea. Ideas in the gaming realm are a dime-a-dozen'
Perhaps I didn't explain myself correctly; I thought I already mentioned that uniqueness is not a requirement."
Ah, I understand now; you see typically the word "idea" immediately evokes to my mind a person saying, "Hey! I have this great new idea for a game that has never been done before." But you're right; a developer does need to know what the genre is and some other basics, but our author here sounds as if he has all that already; he wants to make an MMOG. But more specifically he wants to make an MMORPG. Most likely he wants to make it 3D since very few games are done in 2D now. And he may have an idea of "how time is being kept." So, he has all that he really needs to know himself. He just needs to unleash some game designers into that general direction, and they are the ones who will figure out the specifics, like the graphics engine, game mechanics, storyline, and what-have-you.
But he had already specified enough by saying MMORPG. That he could set-up a team that would do the job. So yes, he __may__ want to know some more things, but he doesn't __need__ to know anything more.
TheRaiderRobert
'he is wrong that you need an idea. Ideas in the gaming realm are a dime-a-dozen'
Perhaps I didn't explain myself correctly; I thought I already mentioned that uniqueness is not a requirement."
Ah, I understand now; you see typically the word "idea" immediately evokes to my mind a person saying, "Hey! I have this great new idea for a game that has never been done before." But you're right; a developer does need to know what the genre is and some other basics, but our author here sounds as if he has all that already; he wants to make an MMOG. But more specifically he wants to make an MMORPG. Most likely he wants to make it 3D since very few games are done in 2D now. And he may have an idea of "how time is being kept." So, he has all that he really needs to know himself. He just needs to unleash some game designers into that general direction, and they are the ones who will figure out the specifics, like the graphics engine, game mechanics, storyline, and what-have-you.
But he had already specified enough by saying MMORPG. That he could set-up a team that would do the job. So yes, he __may__ want to know some more things, but he doesn't __need__ to know anything more.
TheRaiderRobert
ASKER
-- By TheRaiderRobert : "Now for the straight-talk, you have no earthly idea what you are getting yourself into. " --
Of course I do know where I'm getting into. What makes you so sure that I'm so ignorant of the requirements of an MMORPG?
-- "Ok, you need to talk to consultant. Try these options:
--
-- Tom Sloper at http://www.sloperama.com/business.html has a track record going back to the 80's. He works as a consultant or producer.
--
--Noah Falstein at http://www.theinspiracy.com/services.htm also has a track record in game production. He works as a consultant mainly I believe."
--
Yes you are correct, I'll need a consultant if I really wanna get into serious business. But consultance isn't my question here. Discussion is. If you think by discussing this topic, you'll be giving away your grand business plans, then it's ok not to answer. And btw, no offense to you. Your suggestion to look for a consultant is like telling me to search the google site for some bug-solving answers.
I'll like to see more of davebytes' answers.
His answers gives more ideas and questions to probe and from his stand, many unqiue point of views can be realised.
However, my question is that, if YOU are the one who wants to write an MMORPG, how would you approach your way to attain your goal?
eg :
1) Requires a team of n ppl, consisting of roughly (m) digital artist, (n) storyboarders, (o) developers, (p) project leads .. .etc
2) Experience of this team should consist of at least (n) RTS titles, (o) RPG titles, and so on...
3) Do you need a full-scaled studio, if so, any examples or quotes?
4) Gameplay vs storyline - which is more important?
5) How are you going to get your player customers to pay? PayPal?
I think this is probably a suitable template for answers. Nobody starts their first game writting a MMORPG unless he has already a strong and experienced team (including artists) and he has the financial backup to pull his project through. Otherwise, it's not just an uphill battle, it's a vertical cliff battle.
As for me, I've only finished my first vertical shooting game somewhere 40% the standard of strikers 1945 with some unique gameplay elements. And I can only say, it's only the very very beginning. I'm moving on to some simple client-server card game next before moving on to a simple RTS. Not to mention the 3d world which I'm studying now. Whenever I look at MMORPG, it's probably still a long long way to go. It's not just ABOUT the development. Developing an MMORPG is much much more than just a simple MMORPG itself even though the diff between a 2dMMORPG and 3d MMORPG can be quite big.
Probably 2 points for me to clarify,
1) I'm NOT intending to write an MMORPG now, not at least in the near future.
2) I'm seeking opinions of approach to an MMORPG, rough or detailed is fine, as long as they offer sensible ideas, I don't even ask for solutions. As MMORPG is an unique product that involves constant dealings with the customers (the retailers), unlike normal games where dealings isn't that constant.
Of course I do know where I'm getting into. What makes you so sure that I'm so ignorant of the requirements of an MMORPG?
-- "Ok, you need to talk to consultant. Try these options:
--
-- Tom Sloper at http://www.sloperama.com/business.html has a track record going back to the 80's. He works as a consultant or producer.
--
--Noah Falstein at http://www.theinspiracy.com/services.htm also has a track record in game production. He works as a consultant mainly I believe."
--
Yes you are correct, I'll need a consultant if I really wanna get into serious business. But consultance isn't my question here. Discussion is. If you think by discussing this topic, you'll be giving away your grand business plans, then it's ok not to answer. And btw, no offense to you. Your suggestion to look for a consultant is like telling me to search the google site for some bug-solving answers.
I'll like to see more of davebytes' answers.
His answers gives more ideas and questions to probe and from his stand, many unqiue point of views can be realised.
However, my question is that, if YOU are the one who wants to write an MMORPG, how would you approach your way to attain your goal?
eg :
1) Requires a team of n ppl, consisting of roughly (m) digital artist, (n) storyboarders, (o) developers, (p) project leads .. .etc
2) Experience of this team should consist of at least (n) RTS titles, (o) RPG titles, and so on...
3) Do you need a full-scaled studio, if so, any examples or quotes?
4) Gameplay vs storyline - which is more important?
5) How are you going to get your player customers to pay? PayPal?
I think this is probably a suitable template for answers. Nobody starts their first game writting a MMORPG unless he has already a strong and experienced team (including artists) and he has the financial backup to pull his project through. Otherwise, it's not just an uphill battle, it's a vertical cliff battle.
As for me, I've only finished my first vertical shooting game somewhere 40% the standard of strikers 1945 with some unique gameplay elements. And I can only say, it's only the very very beginning. I'm moving on to some simple client-server card game next before moving on to a simple RTS. Not to mention the 3d world which I'm studying now. Whenever I look at MMORPG, it's probably still a long long way to go. It's not just ABOUT the development. Developing an MMORPG is much much more than just a simple MMORPG itself even though the diff between a 2dMMORPG and 3d MMORPG can be quite big.
Probably 2 points for me to clarify,
1) I'm NOT intending to write an MMORPG now, not at least in the near future.
2) I'm seeking opinions of approach to an MMORPG, rough or detailed is fine, as long as they offer sensible ideas, I don't even ask for solutions. As MMORPG is an unique product that involves constant dealings with the customers (the retailers), unlike normal games where dealings isn't that constant.
ASKER
Oh yes, btw, please answer what you feel. Don't shun away just because you don't have experience in MMORPG. Just remember, a solution is NOT needed in this post. I need just some ideas.
Thanks again to all!
Thanks again to all!
Sorry, I totally misunderstood you. From some reason I was thinking that you actually wanted answers and thought you were in a position to produce a MMORPG right now.
I have things to do at the moment so I can't discuss right now, but I'll be back!
TheRaiderRobert
I have things to do at the moment so I can't discuss right now, but I'll be back!
TheRaiderRobert
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ASKER
Thanks for your comments,
I think you've effectively demostrated or at least illustrated the BARE minimum requirements for a MMORPG; not to mention the amount of details involved in each of the points described.
Certainly, this kind of scale is definitely not achievable by a newbie who just started programming for 3 months, and ranting away his abilities to be able to create such games.
As mentioned, MM (Massively Multiplayer) is means a lot of networking problems will have to resolved. And this is definitely not easy even for an experienced developer.
Hmmm... I wonder who else might answer next?
I think you've effectively demostrated or at least illustrated the BARE minimum requirements for a MMORPG; not to mention the amount of details involved in each of the points described.
Certainly, this kind of scale is definitely not achievable by a newbie who just started programming for 3 months, and ranting away his abilities to be able to create such games.
As mentioned, MM (Massively Multiplayer) is means a lot of networking problems will have to resolved. And this is definitely not easy even for an experienced developer.
Hmmm... I wonder who else might answer next?
Ambition & Heart
Regards,
Dave
Regards,
Dave
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Aqua,
Even though I did not ask this question, awsome response. I love to hear first-hand experiences with game development, expecially from a programmers point of view. One day I'll be there.
Thanks for taking the time to post this.
Regards,
David McGraw
Even though I did not ask this question, awsome response. I love to hear first-hand experiences with game development, expecially from a programmers point of view. One day I'll be there.
Thanks for taking the time to post this.
Regards,
David McGraw
ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION
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Aqua,
Outstanding comments. Exciting read!
I just hashed out 4 years of the Marine corps and now im currently going to Kansas State Univ. to study Computer Science and Mathematics.
On your level, what has helped you(in terms of classes that helped you, specific things that you did, etc.), the most from of your 'college years' to become a successfull programmer for the game industry? Where did it all start for you (knowing that this is what you wanted to be)?
The biggest thing that I would love to read is biographies grom a developers point of view. I'm currently reading 'The Pragmatic Programmer'. More of an inspirational read, but a good one thus far. I'd like to prepare myself to the best of my abilities. I suppose there is a lot that I can do in 4 - 5 years, but I always wonder to myself, "What can I do to better myself today so that I can live tomarrow one step closer to my dream" . I know when I got out of the hectic life that the Marine corps offered me, I knew exactly what I was doing. But now, Im basically paving my way to start my real life in 4 years, as a programmer for the game industry. Somewhere, somehow, I will accomplish this.
Feel free to reply to this or to e-mail. I would have written you, however I cannot access your e-mail.
Thank you.
Regards,
David McGraw
<mail removed by Venabili>
Outstanding comments. Exciting read!
I just hashed out 4 years of the Marine corps and now im currently going to Kansas State Univ. to study Computer Science and Mathematics.
On your level, what has helped you(in terms of classes that helped you, specific things that you did, etc.), the most from of your 'college years' to become a successfull programmer for the game industry? Where did it all start for you (knowing that this is what you wanted to be)?
The biggest thing that I would love to read is biographies grom a developers point of view. I'm currently reading 'The Pragmatic Programmer'. More of an inspirational read, but a good one thus far. I'd like to prepare myself to the best of my abilities. I suppose there is a lot that I can do in 4 - 5 years, but I always wonder to myself, "What can I do to better myself today so that I can live tomarrow one step closer to my dream" . I know when I got out of the hectic life that the Marine corps offered me, I knew exactly what I was doing. But now, Im basically paving my way to start my real life in 4 years, as a programmer for the game industry. Somewhere, somehow, I will accomplish this.
Feel free to reply to this or to e-mail. I would have written you, however I cannot access your e-mail.
Thank you.
Regards,
David McGraw
<mail removed by Venabili>
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benxfr if you have ever looked around on experts-exchange it helps to read other posts to make sure you don't repeat what has already been said. I love the way you generalized what I didn't say and just repeated what I had already said adding more white space.
;-)
I'll be replying to dave via e-mail if anyone else wants to know what college classes are best for game dev and what section of game dev let me know! I'd be happy to foreward the e-mail on.
~Aqua
;-)
I'll be replying to dave via e-mail if anyone else wants to know what college classes are best for game dev and what section of game dev let me know! I'd be happy to foreward the e-mail on.
~Aqua
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aqua9880
everyone should answer this question until the points are awarded. in my opinion.
Sorry if my opinion was the same as yours, or something. I'm not really sure how I offended you.
everyone should answer this question until the points are awarded. in my opinion.
Sorry if my opinion was the same as yours, or something. I'm not really sure how I offended you.
A fun article that was worth the time to read:
http://www.gignews.com/crosby3.htm
Regards,
David McGraw
http://www.gignews.com/crosby3.htm
Regards,
David McGraw
thrawn, are you planning on keeping this open indefinitely? I'm just thinking, it's been up for like three months now, and probably should be closed since you've gotten a number of extensive responses/opinions. Just IMHO.
-d
-d
I agree with Dave....
(By the way Dave, I'd really like to get to talk to you at some point and time: My e-mail is <mail removed by Venabili> I'd like to talk back and forth a little to see what other programmers in our field are up to.)
~Aqua
(By the way Dave, I'd really like to get to talk to you at some point and time: My e-mail is <mail removed by Venabili> I'd like to talk back and forth a little to see what other programmers in our field are up to.)
~Aqua
ASKER
Hi guys, I've been tied down by my work commitments for the recent months during working hours and tied down by a massive engine restructuring during off-working hours. So my time was almost too tight to manage.
But anyway, I managed to break free recently and managed to read your wonderful posts and suggestions. This has seriously, helped me tremendously and even though this topic isn't as smooth going as I had hoped, the amount of knowledge put into this discussion is much more than I've initially expected.
Btw, just a bit of news. The cause of me posting this thread is due to my friend's friend who actually wanted to invite me to join him in his quest to write a MMORPG. Initially, I did not have any faith in that guy. So I had to ask a few questions, I had to.
1) Any good game engine? Any domain knowledge or existing personnel who knows the engine inside-out?
2) Any business plan? At least, a proposal of milestones of what was to be achieved within a certain time frame.
3) Target age group? What kind of storyline are we looking here?
4) Strength of the team. How good is the team gathered now? I'm no expert in either the MMO portion or the RPG portion. So far I've only written a vertical scroller shooter clone... so it's no big deal. Having a strong team enables me to learn fast and pick up the cool stuffs faster (hopefully) as well.
This strength also extends to the arts/graphics team. Which i was told, there were none.
My friend tried to answer those questions on behalf of his friend, which in my opinion, was bullshit. 1) It was his first game.
2) No existing game engine and game development experience although the intiator had a lot of experience PLAYING them.
3) No design or development team gathered and lack of prerequisite talents.
4) Planning was disorganised and not in proper order without milestones to indicate progress.
5) Not at all concerned abt the financial requirements, etc production costs, server costs, maintanance costs, etc... even if the project could be done with his own server (a far stretched thought), the production costs will still remain.
In the end, the project, after 3 months, was dropped. I incidentally popped my friend the question and he replied that the project was dropped due to lack of manpower.
Well, I would say, it'll be crazy for anyone to join his project, unless we're seeing another John Carmack in action. Heh...
To be honest, nowadays, there are a lot of ppl out there who is out to make money from MMORPG and thinks that it's damned easy to attempt at one. Once if even done, they'll just sit there waiting for money to roll in.
I've met too many. Shallow ideas, shallow planning, narrow-minded, money-minded, couldn't care less for their players, couldn't care less abt their customer base. All they want is $$$.
Back to what davebytes has said, I guess it'll be abt time to close this topic.
To experts exchange moderator : Please gimme somemore time to access each posts and award points accordingly before closing. Thanks.
But anyway, I managed to break free recently and managed to read your wonderful posts and suggestions. This has seriously, helped me tremendously and even though this topic isn't as smooth going as I had hoped, the amount of knowledge put into this discussion is much more than I've initially expected.
Btw, just a bit of news. The cause of me posting this thread is due to my friend's friend who actually wanted to invite me to join him in his quest to write a MMORPG. Initially, I did not have any faith in that guy. So I had to ask a few questions, I had to.
1) Any good game engine? Any domain knowledge or existing personnel who knows the engine inside-out?
2) Any business plan? At least, a proposal of milestones of what was to be achieved within a certain time frame.
3) Target age group? What kind of storyline are we looking here?
4) Strength of the team. How good is the team gathered now? I'm no expert in either the MMO portion or the RPG portion. So far I've only written a vertical scroller shooter clone... so it's no big deal. Having a strong team enables me to learn fast and pick up the cool stuffs faster (hopefully) as well.
This strength also extends to the arts/graphics team. Which i was told, there were none.
My friend tried to answer those questions on behalf of his friend, which in my opinion, was bullshit. 1) It was his first game.
2) No existing game engine and game development experience although the intiator had a lot of experience PLAYING them.
3) No design or development team gathered and lack of prerequisite talents.
4) Planning was disorganised and not in proper order without milestones to indicate progress.
5) Not at all concerned abt the financial requirements, etc production costs, server costs, maintanance costs, etc... even if the project could be done with his own server (a far stretched thought), the production costs will still remain.
In the end, the project, after 3 months, was dropped. I incidentally popped my friend the question and he replied that the project was dropped due to lack of manpower.
Well, I would say, it'll be crazy for anyone to join his project, unless we're seeing another John Carmack in action. Heh...
To be honest, nowadays, there are a lot of ppl out there who is out to make money from MMORPG and thinks that it's damned easy to attempt at one. Once if even done, they'll just sit there waiting for money to roll in.
I've met too many. Shallow ideas, shallow planning, narrow-minded, money-minded, couldn't care less for their players, couldn't care less abt their customer base. All they want is $$$.
Back to what davebytes has said, I guess it'll be abt time to close this topic.
To experts exchange moderator : Please gimme somemore time to access each posts and award points accordingly before closing. Thanks.
ASKER
Yo aqua, din notice ur last post. If you guys don't mind, please add me into their discussion groups so that I can learn from you guys.
<mail removed by Venabili>
Looking forward to hear from you guys.
<mail removed by Venabili>
Looking forward to hear from you guys.
You got it! :-D
<mail removed by Venabili>
If you have any questions or want help with something feel free to ship me off an e-mail or catch me on AIM!
~Aqua
<mail removed by Venabili>
If you have any questions or want help with something feel free to ship me off an e-mail or catch me on AIM!
~Aqua
it doesn't look like anyone has said that VB is a very very VERY poor choice of computing language for mmorpg developement.
VB is a poor language for a lot of things.. that should have been assumed.
Does your humble opinion re: VB also apply towards VB.NET?
Just curious...
Just curious...
VB.NET has it's weaknesses... imho I think VB was better geared towards Scripting and odd macro scripts for Office Apps. And even scripting I think php is a much more powerful language.
Also.. *.NET regarding any of the .NET ide sections are far too complicated and I'd rather use a comand line compiler and notepad than *.NET.
Just my oppinion.
Game design is best in: C#, Java, C++, or Python (it works ok.. but not great)
~Aqua
Also.. *.NET regarding any of the .NET ide sections are far too complicated and I'd rather use a comand line compiler and notepad than *.NET.
Just my oppinion.
Game design is best in: C#, Java, C++, or Python (it works ok.. but not great)
~Aqua
Can we close this out now? I know it is a very exciting thread to talk about and post in but it's been around for 5 months now and needs to come to an end. I'm more than happy to talk to you outside the forums if you have any further questions thrawn but I'm sure all the posters in this thread are waiting around for closure on this topic.
No offense meant in posting this, just a suggestion imho.
~Aqua
No offense meant in posting this, just a suggestion imho.
~Aqua
Just in case you do check this again Mr. Admin.
Since this nice forum for asking questions does NOT have an area for dev's just to discuss topics or any way of contacting eachother to B.S. there is no other way aside from "offsite discussions" which prohibiting this is also a violation of the Bill of Rights which if anyone wanted to push the fact, your U.S. based site could be brought under a class action suit.
You can talk to your higher ups and let them know, if you want to stop off site discussion, open up a BS place for developers to discuss things where points are not involved and it does not have to regard a question. Else I highly reccomend backing off of pushing -> "1. Offsite discussions are... not allowed"
Just thought I would point out this as a fellow expert:
~Aqua
Since this nice forum for asking questions does NOT have an area for dev's just to discuss topics or any way of contacting eachother to B.S. there is no other way aside from "offsite discussions" which prohibiting this is also a violation of the Bill of Rights which if anyone wanted to push the fact, your U.S. based site could be brought under a class action suit.
You can talk to your higher ups and let them know, if you want to stop off site discussion, open up a BS place for developers to discuss things where points are not involved and it does not have to regard a question. Else I highly reccomend backing off of pushing -> "1. Offsite discussions are... not allowed"
Just thought I would point out this as a fellow expert:
~Aqua
back in thrawn's court, as he was going to close it out two weeks ago...
-d
-d
Get some! That motivates me! Keep up the great work people! ;)
Regards,
David McGraw
Regards,
David McGraw
ASKER
First of all, I've to apologise to the local site Admin for accidentally violating the rules.
Nothing was discussed outside the forum. We've not made contact.
I've also noticed that the topic has grown rather out of topic already.
Alright time to grade points :
To be honest, I dun think i'm qualified to grade u guys. But since I have to, I'll just grade accordingly to how close u guys answered my very generic question without a definite answer. My apologises and gratitude to those who have tried, argued, contributed, and stayed with the topic.
Nothing was discussed outside the forum. We've not made contact.
I've also noticed that the topic has grown rather out of topic already.
Alright time to grade points :
To be honest, I dun think i'm qualified to grade u guys. But since I have to, I'll just grade accordingly to how close u guys answered my very generic question without a definite answer. My apologises and gratitude to those who have tried, argued, contributed, and stayed with the topic.
ASKER
To davebytes and aqua,
thanks for all ur contributions, ideas and anything u've posted here. There isn't anyone who had the perfect answer. I was torn in between giving the "accepted answer" to either one of u. However I guess, the points are more or less divided, so nobody's a loser here :)
I guess we can continue from here.
Besides that, I think I'll share my path working towards a MMORPG.
Assuming that I'll be a PM or a Project Lead in a MMORPG project, I'll need to have the following experience :
Games to write
2x vertical shooters
2x real time strategy
2x minor multiplayer simulations like Card games, etc.
1x Online real time strategy (at least network support for 8 players)
1x 3rd person or 1st person shooter (if MMORPG intended in 3d)
1x shooter multiplayer (supporting at least 16-64 players)
1x MUD
---
only then this person is experienced enough to consider attempting at a MMORPG. Of course, u guys may disagree or even flame me for my nonsense but this is just what I feel - Please don't flame me. :P
This is just my opinion of the amount of experience a developer requires for a MMORPG. A slow way up leading to a MMORPG. But I may be wrong. heh... please advise if you have a better analyse or gauge :P
thanks for all ur contributions, ideas and anything u've posted here. There isn't anyone who had the perfect answer. I was torn in between giving the "accepted answer" to either one of u. However I guess, the points are more or less divided, so nobody's a loser here :)
I guess we can continue from here.
Besides that, I think I'll share my path working towards a MMORPG.
Assuming that I'll be a PM or a Project Lead in a MMORPG project, I'll need to have the following experience :
Games to write
2x vertical shooters
2x real time strategy
2x minor multiplayer simulations like Card games, etc.
1x Online real time strategy (at least network support for 8 players)
1x 3rd person or 1st person shooter (if MMORPG intended in 3d)
1x shooter multiplayer (supporting at least 16-64 players)
1x MUD
---
only then this person is experienced enough to consider attempting at a MMORPG. Of course, u guys may disagree or even flame me for my nonsense but this is just what I feel - Please don't flame me. :P
This is just my opinion of the amount of experience a developer requires for a MMORPG. A slow way up leading to a MMORPG. But I may be wrong. heh... please advise if you have a better analyse or gauge :P
Ms. Venabili,
Yes, I do believe having a pointless discussion area for Game Dev. would be cool and useful. If it will not get you in trouble for doing so I do believe myself as well as other Dev's would very much like that.
~Aqua
Yes, I do believe having a pointless discussion area for Game Dev. would be cool and useful. If it will not get you in trouble for doing so I do believe myself as well as other Dev's would very much like that.
~Aqua
I cannot do an area, but I can do a thread :) Will post it later today:)
ASKER
Heeh Aqua, I mistaken your pointless as in MEANINGLESS ... no wonder I had quite a problem understanding it...
It was actually - pointless = A question worth ZERO POINT.
It'll be quite sometime before coming back here for a peep. I just hope that more ppl will contribute their experiences to this PAQ as a friendly form of sharing.
Till then... -
It was actually - pointless = A question worth ZERO POINT.
It'll be quite sometime before coming back here for a peep. I just hope that more ppl will contribute their experiences to this PAQ as a friendly form of sharing.
Till then... -
ASKER
Just a perspective to look from,
Try putting yourselves into the shoes of the CEO or President or even as a PM. And that you are presiding the development of the game project.
I'll prefer the perspective as a President because I'll have to tackle business related issues as well. A PM may or may not be participating in the business dealings other than probably dealing with the publisher and some prospective customers for game promotions.
As a President, what do you think it takes to write a MMORPG that can stand out in the general gaming community and at the same time, earn a constant income for expansion?
Personally I have a few things to consider :
1) What kind of personnel I need?
2) What kind of business strategy to adopt?
3) Am I going to rent a studio/office for development?
4) How many am I going to employ and how much am I going to pay them?
5) What are my fixed costs and variable costs?
6) What is the market demand now?
7) What age group am I targetting?
8) What sub-genre of RPG am I heading into?
It breaks down furthur
1a) How am I going to structure this development team (ie, arts, picture and motion and code development)
1b) What kind of marketing/advertising strategies do I need?
2a) What am I going to achieve in the next 6 months/ 1 year/ 1.5 years/ 2 years / 5 years?
2b) Who am I going to collaborate with to come out with an ambitious but realistic business plan?
2c) How am I going to advertise my game?
2d) How am I going to get people to know me, my development team and my game company. Most of all, my products?
3a) What kind of studio in which location is most suitable?
3b) What is my cost for renting a studio for 2 years?
3c) What is my cost for rennovation?
4a) How many PMs/Developers/Artists/Bus
4b) How much am I going to spend for salary based on 1 year without income? (Naturally, since during the course of development, there isn't any income. Assuming that MMORPG is your first game)
4c) What kind of employment am I offering? Contract? Temp? Perm? Part-time? Free-lance? Paid-based on work done? (like those jewellery designers)
5a) My fixed costs, office rentals, equipment, maintanance, personal commitments. What more?
5b) My variable costs, salaries for my employees, extra expenditures on expendable items.
5c) Anymore types or variations of costs?
6a) Is MMORPG in demand now?
6b) What's the range of my fan-base if I have any?
6c) What's the trend of gaming now? In S'pore, CounterStrike was once exceedingly popular. Now it is still popular, so should I create my MMORPG in 1st person view having a strong RPG story line?
7a) What kind of age group am I targetting? Average gamers are 29 years old with the bulk of gamers at 18 years old (taken from www.gamedev.net) Does my game attract the older gamers or only a certain range of gamers?
8a) What kind of sub-genre so I head into? 1st person RPG a bit like Jedi Knight 2? 3rd person RPG like Max Payne? 2D sprites RPGs like the old Final Fantasy series? Or follow any current MMORPG styles? And so on...
----
I think from this point onwards, answering all those questions will bring abt a tree of possibilities. So that should give us a better idea on what does it really take to create an MMORPG.
But what I'm looking for is that one perspective that is realistic and clear on its goals and mission. This perspective must also contain projected costs and profits, projected approximate customer demand, and a strategy to advertise your MMORPG and get a fan-base to actually play your MMORPG.