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Pentium 4 2.80A Ghz - 533 FSB Question

Posted on 2004-12-01
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Last Modified: 2008-01-09
i recently bought the above cpu - really cheap - got it for like 110 bucks..
the question is i wanted a real good overclocker and rushed cuz it was cheap..
i got a nice mobo - ASUS P4P800-E Deluxe..
the question i really wanna know is the 2.80 a
1. - supports Ht - cuz some sites say yes - some say no
2. - is there a big diffrence in performance (games) for 2.80 - 533 fsb / 2.80 - 800 fsb
3. - is it a good overclocker?
4. - is Ht - any good?

thx!
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Question by:m0tek
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by:InteraX
ID: 12718380
Hi m0tek,

If the processor is a true 2.8A, then the FSB will be 800MHz. If not, then the FSB will be 533MHz.
Assuming it is a true 2.8A, then,

1. Yes
2. Not massive, but should be noticable in benchmarks etc.
3. It should be fairly good at OC'ing. It's a northwood core chip. Runs a LOT cooler than  Prescott.
4. HT can be good if the application has been written to take advantage of it. It is a hlaf way house between a single cpu core and dual cpu cores. see http://www.2cpu.com/articles/43_1.html

Good Luck
;-)
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by:fixnix
ID: 12718424
1:  No.  see http://www.intel.com/products/ht/hyperthreading_more.htm

2:  Most of my computing is floating point operations, and yes, I notice a difference from 533 to 800.  In fact, my P4 2.4/800 will run even with an entry level (smaller L2 cache) 3.0GHz Xeon/533 on crunching seti classic workunits.

3:  I'd guess not....but I've never been a big overclocking fan.  Years-to-date, I've spent more in fried hardware and extravagant cooling than just buying a faster piece to start with.  If overclocking was "just as good" as a system that was running at it's rated speed and it truly saved any money, then production servers and workstations would be overclocked all over the planet.  I don't see that as being the case.  Just my $0.02.

4:  Depends on your use.  100% of my HT-capable boxes have it disabled, but that same 100% are dedicated machines pretty much doing one cpu-intensive task (seti) and it would work more inefficiently enabling HT and running 2 instances to get full CPU utilization.  On the other hand, if you frequently run many applications at once or are using a multithreaded app, then enabling HT would make sense.  If you're primarily a gamer, I would probbaly disable HT.
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by:fixnix
ID: 12718459
update to my answer#1

I didn't see the 2.8A specifically listed in what I posted...so InteraX could be right on the money saying it is HT capable and running at 800fsb.

You can probably take his word over mine for the OC'ing as well....I haven't OC'd in a while so my "probably not" wasn't based on any facts...just my distaste in OC'ing haha.

(InteraX posted while I was typing my first response)
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by:Notorious-Biggles
ID: 12718498
I disagree with InteraX.

A true 2.8A is a Prescott core with a 533 MHz FSB and has hyper-threading. The 2.8B is the Northwood with 533 MHz FSB and doesn't have hyper-threading. The 2.8C is also a Northwood, but has an 800 MHz FSB and does have hyper-threading. The 2.8E is another Prescott with 800 MHz FSB and hyper-threading. Yes, there are four P4's at 2.8 GHz.

So assuming you do have a 2.8A...
1. Yes.

2. You would notice the difference in benchmarks, and maybe to the tune of a few frames per second, but the difference is nowhere as big as a better graphics card would make.

3. I can't really comment on the overclocking performance, I'd need the stepping for that. In general though, Prescotts overclock well if you can keep them cool, they do well with phase change or water cooling. If you want to overclock it slap a big heatsink like a Thermalright XP120 on it.

4. I'd rather have it than not have it. It does give Windows a slightly smoother feel with hyper-threading enabled.
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by:m0tek
ID: 12718644
its a 2.80a ,  thats what on the chip...
bios wont show any HT secret menu as it should..
its a prescott - yea and right now with stock coolin and a few cool adjustments ive done - i got the system on 30 c (load) and cpu 46 (stock!) on load..
Gonna get it watercooled as well..


AIDA REPORT :
CPU Properties      
CPU Type      Intel Pentium 4E, 2800 MHz (5.25 x 533)
CPU Alias      Prescott
CPU Stepping      D0
Original Clock      2800 MHz
L1 Trace Cache      12K Instructions
L1 Data Cache      16 KB
L2 Cache      1 MB (On-Die, ATC, Full-Speed)
      
CPU Physical Info      
Package Type      478 Pin uPGA
Package Size      3.50 cm x 3.50 cm
Transistors      125 million
Process Technology      7M, 0.09 um, CMOS, Cu, Low-K
Die Size      112 mm2
Core Voltage      1.385 V
I/O Voltage      1.385 V
      
CPU Manufacturer      
Company Name      Intel Corporation
Product Information      http://www.intel.com/products/browse/processor.htm
      
CPU Utilization      
CPU #1      4 %
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by:Notorious-Biggles
ID: 12718710
Not all versions of Windows support Hyper-threading, only 2000 and XP if I remember rightly. If you have either of those, bring up the task manager using CTRL+ALT+DEL and look to see if you have two processors showing. If you do, it's running with HT on.
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by:m0tek
ID: 12718718
i dont see any dual cpu's and i got win xp sp2 ...
and the thing is - the mobo says - if my cpu supports HT it should appear under advanced on the bios menu
it didnt.
and when i got the box i saw it says
2.80A Prescott 1mb cache (Retail box + sealed..)
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by:m0tek
ID: 12718729
this site..
http://www.pcsuppliesuk.co.uk/cgi-bin/productlookup.asp?stockcode=5466
says it does support it - but who knows - a sale site..
anyways what do i do? how do i know if it does?
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by:m0tek
ID: 12718801
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by:crazijoe
ID: 12719429
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crazijoe earned 200 total points
ID: 12719485
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by:InteraX
ID: 12720122
M0tek,

Sorry. My fault for posting incorrect information when not thinking straight when leaving the office.

The 2.8 is a northwood @ 533 FSB and HT disabled
The 2.8A is a prescott core @ 533 FSB and HT disabled
The 2.8C is also a northwood @ 800FSB and HT enabled
The 2.8E is the prescott @ 800FSB and HT enabled

The best reference is http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040201/images/cpu_history_big.gif
A good chart to compare the different P4 processors and their capabilities and technologies.

This chart also includes maximum CPU temperatures etc. if you want to look at overclocking.


Sorry for dropping the ball earlier.

So as a result, in answer to your questions,

1. No
2. As before.
3. Try it if you like, but I wouldn't advise it. Being a prescott core processor this will run a lot hotter than the northwood. If you do, please keep a close eye on your CPU temp, otherwise you will fry it and end up with a good, high-tech paperweight.
4. As before.
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by:crazijoe
ID: 12720161
InteraX,
You link does not work  ;)
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by:InteraX
ID: 12720329
OK. Tom's HW obviously don't like you linking direct to the pic. It's the first chart on http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040201/prescott-08.html

The article is as usual for Tom's, a good comparisson between the different technologies available.
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by:Shaundinger
ID: 12720412
I have purchased three of these from the company which I work for after the PCs which they were contained in got CPU upgrades.  Hey, they were $80 each, so why not?

1. As stated before, HT is NOT present on the 2.80A.  Anyone saying the 2.80A (533FSB, 1MB L2 cache Prescott core) supports HT is badly mistaken.
2. The difference will be indiscernible from a seat-of-the-pants perspective.  At resolutions in most games greater than 1024x768, performance will be completely equal, since the equation heavily favors the video card at that point.  Which CPU you have makes little difference, especially if they're identical in clock speed and differ only in FSB speed.
3. With a decent air cooler, the 2.80A Prescott will hit 3.2 to 3.5 GHz, as most low-speed Prescotts tend to.  So they're not particularly impressive overclockers.  Mine won't do over 3.0 stably, as it stresses the power supply so badly that it resets once in a while.  Seriously - these things suck more current than many power supplies and Socket-478 motherboards can reliably supply.
4. HT is nice if you do a lot of multi-tasking (such as working with Photoshop, Powerpoint, and maybe several other bandwidth-hungry programs at once) but is otherwise pretty useless. If you are concentrating on one application, it seems about a 50/50 split.  A few apps happen to take advantage of it, some incidentally benefit from background processes not hogging CPU cycles, and quite a few applications will take a performance penalty for whatever reason... although it's usually only 2-3%; nothing to get excited or bummed about.  Hyperthreading is a fancy word for Intel to throw around for marketing purposes, and gets disabled in all of my PCs here at work, since it can cause runtime problems with several of our VB applications.  

Overall, in my 6 months worth of hard experience with the Prescott, I would have told you to run away.  Run far away.  It's not shockingly fast, you need a Prescott compliant motherboard for it (most of which aren't very sturdily built for these CPUs in the first place) and stress power components quite badly.  Buy a Northwood-core P4 if you can find one instead.  $110 would buy an AMD Sempron 3100+, which flat-out levels the 2.8 Pentium 4s in most anything other than media encoding applications.  I don't particularly like them, and will probably sell them soon enough.  Once someone builds a Socket 754 or 939 board that are both affordable and not total junk.
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by:m0tek
ID: 12721183
thx for the advice Shaundinger...
i think id sell this and get me a 3.4 northwood since , as u said , their much better overclockers..
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by:Shaundinger
ID: 12721354
No problem.

Be wary, though, that 3.7 or 3.8 is going to be the upper range of OCing with even the highest-end air cooling solutions with either the Pressie or the Northwood.  

And FYI, the 2.8s that were replaced here were replaced with 3.2 and 3.4 Northwoods.  They're great CPUs... and they can be had for very reasonable prices, too.
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by:payton323
ID: 12827885
If you think your chip supports hyper-threading, but aren't sure if it's enabled, you can go to Intels web site and download their "Hyper Threading Technology Test Utility". This utility will determine whether the Hyper-Threading Technology is present and working on this computer system.


http://support.intel.com/support/processors/tools/htu/
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Author Comment

by:m0tek
ID: 12829197
got myself a 3.0e Prescott - which is quite a good overclocker.
also got a new water coolin system and a new High End PSU (Thermaltake)
:)
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by:InteraX
ID: 12829497
Now that's just being flash.
;-)
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