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Posted on 2005-03-10
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I took over a network where the IP scheme was 192.0.0.1  - 192.0.0.254 all with subnet of 255.255.255.0 . We are getting close to using up all of the IP addresses from 1-254, what would be the best way to expand the range of addresses? It's all windows 2000 based and we are in 1 location.
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Question by:Bekster
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pseudocyber earned 2000 total points
ID: 13506830
In my opinion, the best way to expand would be to change the subnet mask only - change it to 255.255.253.0 and this will give you 510 addresses in the range of 192.0.0.1-192.0.1.254.

If you need more, change it to 255.255.252.0 and this would give you 1022 addresses:  192.0.0.1-192.0.3.254.
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Expert Comment

by:neteducation
ID: 13506866
Use subnet 255.255.254.0 and your range goes from 192.0.0.1 to 192.0.1.254

However 192.0.0.x is a bad network to choose, as those are offcial adresses. 192.168.x.x are the offical internal one... or now that you have a little bigger network you may as well go for 172.16.0.0 and use a netmask of 255.255.0.0 like this you have 65534 hosts and this is also an official intranet-range
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by:pseudocyber
ID: 13506867
For a little more detail:

IP Address       : 192.0.0.0
Address Class    : Classless /23
Network Address  : 192.0.0.0

Subnet Address   : 192.0.0.0
Subnet Mask      : 255.255.254.0
Subnet bit mask  : nnnnnnnn.nnnnnnnn.nnnnnnnh.hhhhhhhh
Subnet Bits      : 23
Host Bits        : 9
Possible Number of Subnets : 1
Hosts per Subnet : 510

OR

IP Address       : 192.0.0.0
Address Class    : Classless /22
Network Address  : 192.0.0.0

Subnet Address   : 192.0.0.0
Subnet Mask      : 255.255.252.0
Subnet bit mask  : nnnnnnnn.nnnnnnnn.nnnnnnhh.hhhhhhhh
Subnet Bits      : 22
Host Bits        : 10
Possible Number of Subnets : 1
Hosts per Subnet : 1022


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Author Comment

by:Bekster
ID: 13506871
So with a subnet of 255.255.255.253 a computer with an ip of 192.0.0.25 can communicate with a computer with the IP of 192.0.1.50
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by:pseudocyber
ID: 13506885
Neteducation - good catch on the 192.168.0.0 ... that went right past me.  Duh.
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by:pseudocyber
ID: 13506891
NO - with a subnet mask of 255.255.253.0.  
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by:neteducation
ID: 13506947
believe me, it's 255.255.254.0, not 255.255.253.0
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Author Comment

by:Bekster
ID: 13506972
ok so is 192.168.X.X the equivilent of 192.0.X.X - in that a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 would give me 255 addresses in each scenario and 255.255.253.0 would give me 510? (which would be plenty) So the only benefit of using 192.168.X.X is that it is more of an accepted standard for private ranges
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Expert Comment

by:pseudocyber
ID: 13506977
Yeah, sorry about that.  

.254 = 510 hosts
.252 = 1022 hosts
.248 = 2046 hosts
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Expert Comment

by:pseudocyber
ID: 13507013
Yes, 192.0.0.0 is actually reserved by the IANA (Internet Assigned Numbers Authority).

192.168.0.0/26 (255.255.0.0) is set asside as "Private IP Addressing" and does not require any special authorization to use.
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by:pseudocyber
ID: 13507045
However, if it would be a real pain in the ___ to renumber your whole network to a totally different IP scheme - you could put it off by using a Network Address Translation (NAT) device, such as a firewall or router, to change your addresses to a public IP (probably provided by your Internet provider).

If you don't connect to the Internet, you have no worries, until you do.

... but if you're considering changing your subnet mask to expand your range anyway ... now might be a good time to renumber your network - say to 172.16.1.0/23 (mask 255.255.253.0) which would give you 510 addresses.  Alternatively, if you have a router in your core network, or a layer 3 switch, you could simply have two /24 networks and route between them - you could have a user VLAN and a Server VLAN or whatever.
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Author Comment

by:Bekster
ID: 13507074
ok pseudo 255.255.0.0 is used with 192.168.x.x? how many addresses does that allow me to go up to 192.168.(0-255).X which would be a boatload?

also is there any way to migrate over from 192.0.0.x or would i have to shutdown all devices on the network and do it all in one shot
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Author Comment

by:Bekster
ID: 13507100
what's the big benefit of going with 172.16.x.x over 192.168.x.x
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Expert Comment

by:dyablons
ID: 13507180
you are confusing .252 and .253.  Note the detailed post above.
there is no .253 subnet mask.   Use .254 or .252.  But also note the comments about about 192.168 and 192.0.  If you are using 192.0.X.X, While a router will allow you to use a mask of  .254 for 510 users or .252 for 1022 users,  the addresses beyond your 192.0.0X are not yours to use on the internet. The way to get more legitimate IP addresses is to ask for more IANA (or whoever is handing out ip addresses nowadays) or to  use NAT (the preferable way to go)
 

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Author Comment

by:Bekster
ID: 13507249
dya ok i see.  We are using ISAServer for net access to I don't believe we will ever need public IP's for desktops except for a few servers which already have public addresses from our ISP for mail/www etc

at what point to vlans make sence as apposed to just expanding the IP range.  If we have 255 devices should we just go to .254 subnet or split up the lan in 2
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by:pseudocyber
ID: 13507323
The benefit of going with the 172.16.0.0 instead of a 192.168.0.0 is that a lot of the Small Office Home Office gear likes to use 192.168.0.0 and 192.168.1.0 - and if you ever try to do something with them, like VPN it just avoids some hassle later.  They're both reserved private address ranges. (There's also 10.0.0.0/8 which you could subnet anyway you feel like.).
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LVL 27

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by:pseudocyber
ID: 13507345
Thanks for the points, but you should have split them - given some Bekster for pointing out my mistakes.
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Author Comment

by:Bekster
ID: 13507363
i am bekster lol
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Expert Comment

by:dyablons
ID: 13507459
Ok ignore most of  my previous post, I only read part of the thread. Let me read the rest to catch up.  
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LVL 27

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by:pseudocyber
ID: 13507487
Geez, I'm really not this dense - doing too many things at once.  dyablons and neteducation.  Thanks.
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Expert Comment

by:dyablons
ID: 13507755
Alright I thingk I am up to date.  Use 192.168.y.x or 172.16.y.x. and a  /23 -255.255.252.0 subnet mask. Just make "y" somthing other than 0 or 1 to avoid any problems  that pseudocyber is worried about. A great freetool to use for addressing is the solarwinds subnet calulator - http://www.solarwinds.net/FreeTools.htm.  No more stressing over binary math.   As for vlans, it depends on what you are trying to achieve. They could be used for security purposes, to segemnet broadcast domains, ect.  If you don't have any performance issues or security needs,  I would not worry about VLANs.  I will follow up with advice on making the actual changes after I check that you question was not already answered.  
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Expert Comment

by:dyablons
ID: 13507872
Ok as far as coversion goes are you using static IP's or DHCP? also some idea of how your routing and switching infrastucture is set up will help.
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Author Comment

by:Bekster
ID: 13507892
Using DHCP and we have a number of Baystack switches setup all trunked.  No routers
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Expert Comment

by:dyablons
ID: 13508178
Hmmm,  somewhere there should be a router between your network and the rest of the world. Do you have a Firewall?  How do you connect to your ISP? Do they manage your router and just hand off an ethernet connection?  Are you using Cable/DSL? Was the 192.0.0.X assigned to you or were you just using it?  As far as making the switch,  you have to change the scope on your dhcp sever. make sure you exclude Ip adresses for you servers and networking gear.  Make the change before the weekend so when the IP leases expire they will be renewed with the new adresses. Then you need to change the static IPs on the servers.   If you want to use vlans at some point you need a router to provide connectivity between the vlans.
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