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2nd hard drive not recognized

Posted on 2005-03-10
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Last Modified: 2013-12-29
I am installing an 80 GB, 7200 RPM, Hitachi Deskstar 180GXP as a slave to a Western Digital WD400 WD Caviar 40 GB as master ( I am guessing that the WD is a 5400 RPM device).

I have jumpered the WD as Master with slave present.  I have jumpered the Hitachi as Device 1 slave. The Hitachi has more jumper settings than I am familiar with.  Hitachi website directions provide info on 16 logical head settings (normal) and also 15 logical head settings.  Don’t know what this means, but set the device up for 16 heads, normal.  

I can see both HD’s during CMOS  boot sequence but Windows 98 SE does not recognize the Hitachi.  

What do I do?
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Question by:rdaves
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25 Comments
 
LVL 96

Expert Comment

by:Lee W, MVP
ID: 13507015
Have you run FDISK?  Windows 98 is stupid.  It can't see drives unless they've been prepared for it.  To prepare it, you need to run FDISK, likely off a boot floppy.  Once you create the partition(s) on the disk you can format it in Windows.  XP doesn't have this problem (nor does 2000 or NT4)
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Expert Comment

by:MrBillisMe
ID: 13507545
Be careful and make sure you are formatting the new drive, if in doubt then disconnect the old drive, set the new drive up as master, then FDISK and FORMAT C:
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Author Comment

by:rdaves
ID: 13512626
I have not run fdisk, however, I am preparing this computer to load WXP-Home, so perhaps, rather than struggle with W98-SE, I will load WXP, then work the problem with the HD.  

Of course, I will backup before I begin to load WXP.

Thanks
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LVL 13

Expert Comment

by:gonzal13
ID: 13512873
If you are going to upgrade from win98 to xp, this site might help

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;316639
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LVL 96

Expert Comment

by:Lee W, MVP
ID: 13513146
Allow me to recommend you DO NOT upgrade 98.  I don't care what Microsoft says, the upgrade from 95/98/Me to XP creates problems more times than it succeeds flawlessly.  Since you have a fresh new drive, I would STRONGLY recommend you just disconnect the existing 98 drive, connect the new drive as master, and put the XP CD in and boot from that (you may have to adjust bios settings to boot from a CD).  Then install XP fresh and once done, make your old drive the slave drive so you can access all your old files.

Yes, you WILL have to reinstall ALL your programs, but in my experience - and often stated here on EE, you'll have a better chance of a working XP install by starting fresh.

It MIGHT work as an upgrade.  You MIGHT complete the process and have everything work.  And at least as likely, you;ll complete the process and start having weird problems you can't explain.  And we can't either.  Save yourself time, headaches, and frustration and install fresh.
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Expert Comment

by:gonzal13
ID: 13513489
I agree, if you have the full version then I would install it as a clean install. You will find that some programs just will not work with XP. Thus that is the reason I have three Master HDs. I am slowly as I gain confidence with XP Pro, installing the programs I had on win 98.

I chose XP Pro only because of its compexity, since being a retired engineer I like challanges. It keeps my brain active.

gonzal13(joe)
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LVL 96

Expert Comment

by:Lee W, MVP
ID: 13513500
If you want chalenges and enjoy complexity, try linux!

You can also do a fresh install of XP with an Upgrade CD, you just need a CD of an older version of Windows 98/Me
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Expert Comment

by:Watzman
ID: 13513933
The new drive won't be seen until there is a partition table and a partition on it.  That is, until you run FDISK and, really, until you create at least one FAT32 partition.

You can do a full install of Windows XP from the Windows XP Upgrade product.  It will want to see your Windows 98 CD during the installation, but you only have to put it into a CD drive, you don't actually have to install Windows 98.  It doesn't actually use any software from Windows 98.

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LVL 38

Expert Comment

by:BillDL
ID: 13513978
I would second the advice by MrBillisMe.  Always better to disconnect other drives before running FDISK.  It's quite easy to do the wrong one.

There is one thing I would add to the advice given.  If you first format the drive as FAT32, the Windows XP installation DOES get to the point where it offers to change the format to NTFS which is the best option for WinXP.

IF you ran the setup from the WinXP CD using  x:\i386\winnt.exe without any additional options, it will have unpacked the temporary setup files to that hard drive, and the process of then converting the drive to NTFS will lead to an aborted install because the temporary files are lost during the conversion.

If doing this, it is best to have another drive attached and add the following option to the winnt.exe command to use that other drive to dump the temporary setup files during installation:

winnt.exe /t:D

where D is the drive letter of the drive used for the temporary setup files.

Just my angle on this, if it's any help before you encounter this.

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Expert Comment

by:BillDL
ID: 13513991
Bear in mind also that many Compaq and HP computers (don't know about Hitachi here) prefer the jumpers to be set for CSL (Cable Select), and they then take their Master/Slave status from the connectors.  The end one on the IDE ribbon cable configures a CSL drive as master, while the one in the middle of the ribbon cable configures the drive it is connected to as Slave.
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LVL 13

Expert Comment

by:gonzal13
ID: 13514028
I forgot to mentin that if you still will use on HD for Win98 and the other for XP, then you will need two HD controller cards because the drivers are different. What I do, and Bill has mentioned is to disconnect two of the three drives before I format the drive to be worked on.  
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Expert Comment

by:DabRain
ID: 13514063
rdaves, do your backup, but as others I too have had some problems upgrading to XP but recently I have had better success when connected to the internet and allowing the XP setup to download updates for setup, IMHO, JUST DO IT!!
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Author Comment

by:rdaves
ID: 13517409
Question for BillDL

I have never used the winnt.exe command.  Whenever I have done an install of WXP, or any Windows OS, I have just let the system run the CD automatically.  

I am assuming that to use winnt.exe, I have to kill the screen that comes up when I insert the WXP installation disk, then type Winnt.exe /t:C (C being the master that has always been in this computer).   I was planning on running a W98 startup disk and then formatting the new HD to NTFS, then running the WXP-Home installation disk.  Please provide a few more words on the process and the advantages of running winnt.exe.
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Expert Comment

by:Watzman
ID: 13517597
Winnt.exe is the DOS command level setup program.  Winnt32.exe is the Windows setup program.  Winnt.exe is the program that gets run when you boot from the CD.  Winnt32.exe is the program that will get run if you insert the disk while running Windows.

You can't format the hard drive to NTFS from a Windows 98 startup disk --- 98 doesn't do NTFS.  You don't have to format or create partitions first, as both setup programs will give you the option to format partitions during installation, and to create a partition if none exists.  However, they are not as flexible in this regard as FDisk (but, again, FDisk doesn't really do NTFS partitions).
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Expert Comment

by:BillDL
ID: 13518314
The reason I use the winnt.exe command to install Windows XP is that my original CD became damaged, and my backup somehow lost its bootability.

I now have the "I386" folder from the WinXP pro CD on a partition of my hard drive, and install it from winnt.exe after booting to a Win98se boot floppy which, as stated above, cannot format as NTFS.

My observations about the optional conversion to NTFS were gathered after 2 aborted installs where I hadn't used the switch to force temporary setup file storage on a drive other than the drive to be converted to NTFS.

I often do things the long way out of familiarity or necessity (as is the above case), but there are a lot more expedient ways to get things done, such as simply booting to the WinXP CD ;-)

The benefit of running command lines is that you can add options to setup.exe (Win9x) or winnt.exe (winNT-based).  For instance, you can install it from a server, specify an answer file to say yes or no so you can run it in an unattended mode, make it create a temporary or permanent folder, have it execute some other command when it finishes, and enable accessibility options.

There obviously has to be a specific need to run these optional switches, otherwise a standard install is quite adequate.
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Accepted Solution

by:
Lee W, MVP earned 400 total points
ID: 13518515
*IF* you are going to install fresh, I don't see why you want to go through things with boot disks and running commands and such.  Yes, these methods SHOULD work, but to me it's a waste of time.  Just boot to the CD and let it start and run setup.
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Expert Comment

by:Watzman
ID: 13518959
Actually, the best thing to do is to copy the I386 folder from the CD to the hard drive, then run the installation entirely from the hard drive.  First, it's a lot faster to install from the hard drive.  Second, if you can afford the disk space (about 400 megabytes) to leave the I386 folder on the PC forever, that is then the "registered installation source", and Windows will automatically look there whenever it needs an installation cabinet file.  This will avoid prompts to "insert Windows CD" any time that you make changes to things like your network or printer configurations.
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LVL 38

Expert Comment

by:BillDL
ID: 13519095
That's my chosen method, Waltzman, only I use a 2nd FAT32 partition so the setup files stay intact there.  I also use the partition for the temporary setup files
i386\winnt.exe /T:D

I do the same for Win9x also, and find it the fastest method, as you have said, and it's no more complicated than booting to the CD.
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Expert Comment

by:BillDL
ID: 13519149
One other important thing to know about FDISK (as available on a Win98se boot floppy), is that it wrongly reports drive capacities of drives + 64 GB.  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q263044/

http://download.microsoft.com/download/Win98/Update/8266R/W98/EN-US/263044USA8.EXE

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LVL 13

Expert Comment

by:gonzal13
ID: 13521700
I am installing an 80 GB, 7200 RPM, Hitachi Deskstar 180GXP as a slave to a Western Digital WD400 WD Caviar 40 GB as master ( I am guessing that the WD is a 5400 RPM device).

I have jumpered the WD as Master with slave present.  I have jumpered the Hitachi as Device 1 slave. The Hitachi has more jumper settings than I am familiar with.  Hitachi website directions provide info on 16 logical head settings (normal) and also 15 logical head settings.  Don’t know what this means, but set the device up for 16 heads, normal.  

I woud check to see if your cable is 80 wire, 40 pin. Newer drives require this type of cable.
Also as had been mentioned do disconnect the old HD first, just for safety.
NFTS allows for more data on a HD, thus decreasing it's access time. But with a 7200 rpm HD fat 32 should work without you even noticing any access time problems.

Before you format your old drive, use the same procedure of disconnection the new HD and making the old drive temporarily a master. First of all I would back up your e-maddresses and your favorites. The favorites in XP is located under another file which you can find by using from windows Explorer the find function. As to copying the e-mails addresses to xp I defer to those that are more familure with XP.

I would not be in a hurry to reformat your old drive until you know that the criticals programs will work on XP. Next disarm XP firewall and install zone alarm at www.zonealarm.com.

gonzal13(joe)

gonzal13(joe)

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LVL 13

Expert Comment

by:Watzman
ID: 13522493
Regarding FDISK, Windows 98 came out in 1998, and 98SE was released in 1999.  There was an update (by Microsoft) to FDISK in May of 2000 to expand it's ability to deal with "large" hard drives.  This is available for download (stand-alone) on the Microsoft web site (sorry, I don't have a link handy).  At this point, what was then considered to be a "large" hard drive is now a "small" hard drive, and EVERYONE should download the May, 2000 version of FDISK and replace all older copies with it.  It's STILL imperfect in terms of reporting disk and partition sizes, but it will correctly deal with anything up to 120 gigs, which is as far as you can go with 98 or 98SE given the fact that they cannot deal with the 137 gigabyte barrier.
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by:gonzal13
ID: 13522506
Watzman

Thanks for the education.

gonzal13(joe)
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by:BillDL
ID: 13523166
Watzman.

The link to to updated FDISK for Win98 is in my comment above.  It is an installer file, rather than a standalone, but the .exe file can be unpacked using WinRAR.  It produces 2 files of note:  fdisk.98g and fdisk.98s.  The "g" version is the installable file for Win98 first edition, and the "s" version is the installable file for Win98.  They could well actually be the same file, but named differently for the different .inf files to reference.

Rename either to fdisk.exe and you have your standalone replacement to drop into your boot floppy and overwrite the existing one.  The installer automatically upgrades the version in C:\Windows\Command\EBD folder so that subsequent boot floppies created from Add/Remove Programs > Startup Disk contain the updated file.
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Expert Comment

by:BillDL
ID: 13523169
Correction:  "....the "s" version is the installable file for Win98SE".
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Author Comment

by:rdaves
ID: 13527378
This has been an interesting thread and I appreciate all the input.
Here's a final report:
I was helping a friend get a full-up version of WXP-Home installed.  Thus, W98 was to be disappeared and overwritten.
He installed WXP as an update, and did not choose to have his file system converted from fat32 to NTFS.  
I reinstalled WXP, including formatting his HD to NTFS.  Then, using Partition Magic, I formatted his second hard drive and gave it a letter designation.  Thereafter, the drive was recognized by WXP and he was on his way.  
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