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Sent Items are Slow in GroupWise 6.0

Posted on 2005-03-15
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Last Modified: 2006-11-17
I have many clients that attach to my GroupWise 6.0 on Netware 6.0.  Some of these clients take a while to login to groupwise and then once in, take 2 minutes to pull up only sent items.  The address books, inbox, etc all pull up perfect.  I have verified that this is machine specific.  I can login to another machine with the same user that is having issues and the account works perfect.  I have checked the network provider orders and they are all set to IPX first.  Client 32 is at 4.90.  Please help.
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Question by:cokeefe77
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14 Comments
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:stengelj
ID: 13552486
I don't know if this helps, but I found that switching from IPX to IP made a BIG difference for many of my clients (if they were using NW 5+). If you are running both, set IP to first for everything (it's native for NetWare/GroupWise 5+).

I haven't been 'with' Novell much since 5+ but it seemed they pretty much abandoned IPX.  My last experience with IPX was realizing that the WindowsXP IPX client worked better than the Novell Client under IPX-this made me sad but what can you do?

IPX was cool because it was fast but, Novell abandoned it.  Consider switching to IP.  See: http://www.novell.com/info/collateral/docs/4621162.01/4621162.html
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 13570523
OK, first, the Network Provider orders, and the configuration of Novell Client 32 (to use IP or IPX) has NOTHING to do with the GroupWise Client - *unless* the GroupWise Client is operating in the outdated "Direct Connect" mode, which you shouldn't be using anyway...but heck, since you're still on IPX 6 YEARS after Novell dropped it as the primary protocol for NetWare, you might still be using Direct Connect.

As stengeli alluded to, most of Novell's products haven't required IPX since the late 90s. With the introduction of NetWare v5.0 in 1999, NetWare prefers TCP/IP for client-to-server communications. Similarly, starting with GroupWise v5.0, GroupWise became a true Client/Server application. Best practice, for YEARS, has been to run GroupWise in Client/Server mode, utilizing TCP/IP for all communications between the client software and the GroupWise Post Office. This happens INDEPENDENT of how Client 32 accesses the NetWare file servers.

And I have yet to see the M$ Client for NetWare Networks to outperform Novell Client 32. The M$ Client is *deliberately-crippled* crapware. If it was outperforming Client 32, then Client 32 was grossly misconfigured.

Second, cokeefe77, we need some information about your NetWare and GroupWise environments:

1) NetWare v6.0 - any Support Packs on that?
2) NetWare hasn't needed IPX since v5.0 - are you REALLY using IPX for client-to-server communicaton? If you are, is there a reason?
3) If you also have TCP/IP on the NetWare servers (and they default to TCP/IP, you had to turn it off), then are you binding BOTH TCP/IP and IPX on the Novell Client 32? If so, DON'T DO THAT. Pick one or the other (preferably TCP/IP) and bind ONLY that one at the workstation. You can run both all day long on the SERVER...binding both on the workstation generally causes communications-reliability problems
4) GroupWise v6.0 - any Support Packs on that?
5) Is the GroupWise client operating in Client/Server mode (where the GroupWise client connects to TCP Port 1677 on the server hosting the POA), or in the older and problematic Direct Connect mode, where clients map a drive letter to the Post Office directory and open the GroupWise mailstore files directly? If the latter, then DON'T DO THAT. GroupWise prefers to operate in Client/Server mode. You should start a migration (the POA can support both modes during a migration) - an inevitable result of Direct Connect is database corruption
6) Have you checked the GroupWise databases for errors, using GWCHECK? Do do NOT have to shut down GroupWise to do this - you can run a simple Structure Check (either from ConsoleOne with the GroupWise Snap-Ins or using the standalone GWCHECK tool) without having to shut down anything - unlike Exchange
7) Do you have any sort of E-Mail retention or archiving policy? If not, then how long has the Post Office been in existence? How much E-Mail have users accumulated over how long? Performance can suffer when E-Mail accumulates indefinitely.
8) How many users are on the Post Office? Do they ALL experience this problem, or just some? Does mailbox size (that is, ALL items in their mailbox, not just Sent Items) correlate to the problem?
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LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:stengelj
ID: 13570750
"And I have yet to see the M$ Client for NetWare Networks to outperform Novell Client 32."

"Outperform" is a little subjective but I know what you mean...  
FYI: http://support.novell.com/cgi-bin/search/searchtid.cgi?/10025255.htm (and it's not the ony example)

During Novell's awkward transition from IPX to IP (4.11 to 5.0) I ran into many problems with client 4.7 and up and, while they may have fixed most of the issues by now, it was a sucky period as consultant having to explain the 'quirks'.  Like I said though, I haven't been with Novell for a few years now.  Hopefully, things are better now.
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 13571299
Well, Client 32 is up to v4.92 now, and dragging out 6 YEAR-old experiences with NetWare v4.x-to-v5.x is a little odd. Do you often compare W2K to NT v3.51? The TID you cite is about 5 YEARS old - what possible relevance do you think it has to the MODERN NetWare environment?

In the NT/SMB environment, it was possible for a 3rd party to request a client to resend its NT credentials - username and password - IN THE CLEAR...unencrypted. Redmond fixed this circa 2000. Is it relevant today? Should I bring it up when discussing the pros and cons of network environments?

If you haven't touched NetWare in 5 or 6 years, then please go download a copy of the modern product and work with it awhile. Don't keep digging up long-dead horses and flogging them.

Personally, I never found the transition from IPX to IP all that awkward. at least not with regard to Novell's products. You had things like the HP JetDirects, which despite having the ability to update the firmware, HP preferred to try to force you to buy a new printer and NIC, as opposed to adding the ability to use NCP over TCP/IP. Which I think has something to do with why HP isn't on top of the printer heap any more. (Yes, there are a number of other reasons, but I know this ticked off a number of otherwise loyal HP customers, and made them a lot more wary of trusting HP)
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LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:stengelj
ID: 13571491
"haven't touched NetWare in 5 or 6 years"

When I said, "hadn't been with Novell for a while", I meant on a full-time consultant level.  I still manage  a NW6 network (and a Windows network) and I can't wait to "get the red out".  

I know exactly how this guy/gal feels because for two years we've had nothing but stupid little 'quirks' with the Novell side and engineer after engineer keeps giving the same recommendations to know avail (patch this on the server, patch that on the server, etc.).  They never are willing to believe that something can be machine or client specific (Like in this case).

"I have verified that this is machine specific.  I can login to another machine with the same user that is having issues and the account works perfect."

I'm curious how this question gets answered because I have similar issues happening - but we run IP. Hopefully you have an answer for us PsiCop.

I have tried:

- Disabling AV
- Setting cards to 1/2 duplex
- Disabled client file caching
- Latest client & latest patches
- Increased record locks on server
- and everything PsiCop mentioned in his first post

There was a pretty good discussion here regarding slowness issues.  Maybe you'll find something useful..
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Networking/Netware/Q_20591484.html
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 13571900
"stupid little 'quirks' "

You mean like the fact that changes to multi-valued attribute objects, made on one DC in the AD tree, can overwrite changes made to the same object on another DC in the AD tree?

You mean like the idiotic requirement to *reboot* a DC into special "directory services repair" mode, with a separately-administered and not-centrally-changeable password, to perform repairs that you can do on-the-fly in the eDirectory environment?

You mean like the fact that AD is chained by the neck to DNS, whether or not the organization's DNS hierarchy is the best way to design its directory services tree?

You mean like the total lack of any meaningful cross-platform support? eDirectory, ZENworks and GroupWise all run *natively* on *at least* 3 server platforms - on how many server platforms are AD, SMS and Exchange available? Lotta choices there, huh?

You mean like the inability of SMS to install software on anything other than C:? Gee, no such limitations in ZENworks.

You mean like the inability to make an existing server into a DC, or make a DC into a simple Member server, without rebuilding the whole thing from scratch? I can add/remove replicas & partitions from my eDirectory environment, at will.

You mean like the total lack of any meaningful time synchronization in the AD environment? Or the inability to partition the directory services tree? The lack of basic data integrity mechanisms in AD ("tombstones"?? cripes they're lame)

Give me the Novell "quirks" any day of the week. At least with their products, I have CHOICES, and not a monopoly trying to lock me into their platform and then jack up the licensing costs (Licensing 6.0, anyone?)
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 13571924
As for a solution here, I have 8 outstanding queries regarding the Asker's Question. Until they become more forthcoming with information, its all guesswork.

As for what you've tried in your environment, stengeli, duplex should match the switch port, for both the client and the server. If the server is plugged into a switch port set to full duplex, then the NIC should be full-duplex, and the whatever the client is set to doesn't affect that. The reverse is true for the client. Beyond matching-layer-1 like that, I've never known duplex settings to be direct cause of a slowdown in the OS. Generally, the only time you get a problem is when the NIC and switch can't auto-negotiate, but that's purely a hardware issue. I like to lock things down on the server side - you don't have your server's getting IP addresses via DHCP, right? No reason they should be negotiating line speed either, IMO.

But without a clearer explanation of what you're seeing, the symptoms and if they are app-specific or user specific, and idea of the load on the network and server, there ain't much to diagnose about your problem, either.
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LVL 4

Author Comment

by:cokeefe77
ID: 13615965
PsiCop....you have 8 outstanding questions.  From your first POST you did nothing but complain.  You have insulted me with several of your comments and literally are a pain in the A$$.  I have not answered because if I wanted insults, I would go home to a wife.  Instead, I get your sarcasim and rude attitude.  Wake up and realize that this is a QA forum, not a bitch session. You argued with another user on 3 of your posts.   I asked a simple question when I needed help the most and this is what I got.  I do not need help from anyone by the likes of you.
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LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:stengelj
ID: 13617285
You tell him!

I wan't even going to bother responding because I didn't want you to keep getting your question bogged down with a bunch of unprofessional rantings.  

Best of luck with your problem.  I wish I had some answers for you, but I've got similar problems with my clients and haven't found a fix yet.
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LVL 34

Expert Comment

by:PsiCop
ID: 13675946
*shrug* Sorry you seem to think I was complaining, cokeefe77. I just looked back at my Comment (3/17 @ 6:39pm EST) where I posed the 8 queries, and I don't see any complaints in there. Just trying to figure out your environment and determine pertinent information.

As for the 3 other Comments, sorry that stengali had to clutter your Question with outdated/inaccurate information. I felt it was important enuf to correct.

If you aren't willing to provide the information necessary to diagnose your issue, I don't see how any Expert can help you. If you wanna get a Moderator to delete this Question and refund your points, no objection here.
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LVL 4

Author Comment

by:cokeefe77
ID: 14068177
I do not accept any of the answers as I found the issue myself.  The problem was related to another server was taken offline a year ago but still inplace.  Removed it out of the Replica ring and the problem ceased.  Please close the issue.
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ID: 14402948
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modulo
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