meels
asked on
Can a customer sue a webmaster for lost web site sales?
Hi,
I incredulously spoke to a customer who is accusing me of causing thousands of dollars of lost sales from his web site because he says the hits to his site dropped the day after I made changes to his site. http://olypen.com/rdnelson
A local ISP referred this guy to me because he said somehow a link to a porn site got on his site. He called me asking for an emergency web site change, which I made by basically correcting the link to the non-porn site he wanted linked to. That was back in December 2004. Today he calls me saying his site is full of typos since I touched the site.
He requested that I march down to his office (40 minutes away) and fix the problem. He said he had the original source code to prove I made all kinds of changes to his site. I KNOW I didn't. I told him he could email me the original code and I'd be happy to upload it for him but I would not be willing to go to his office for a meeting and fix the problem onsite at no charge. I stood firm about knowing I did not cause the lost sales to his site.
There were typos on his site when I worked on it but he didn't hire me to changes those so I only fixed the porn site link. I think he's not being honest about him changing the site, or he had a previous webmaster that touched it before I fixed it or ??? The date of the filename appears to be the same as when I last touched it. I don't remember what my final timestamp was to compare that.
Anyway, does anyone have any advice to give me? I'm feeling like this guy doesn't have a chance but maybe I'm being naive.
Please help!
meels
I incredulously spoke to a customer who is accusing me of causing thousands of dollars of lost sales from his web site because he says the hits to his site dropped the day after I made changes to his site. http://olypen.com/rdnelson
A local ISP referred this guy to me because he said somehow a link to a porn site got on his site. He called me asking for an emergency web site change, which I made by basically correcting the link to the non-porn site he wanted linked to. That was back in December 2004. Today he calls me saying his site is full of typos since I touched the site.
He requested that I march down to his office (40 minutes away) and fix the problem. He said he had the original source code to prove I made all kinds of changes to his site. I KNOW I didn't. I told him he could email me the original code and I'd be happy to upload it for him but I would not be willing to go to his office for a meeting and fix the problem onsite at no charge. I stood firm about knowing I did not cause the lost sales to his site.
There were typos on his site when I worked on it but he didn't hire me to changes those so I only fixed the porn site link. I think he's not being honest about him changing the site, or he had a previous webmaster that touched it before I fixed it or ??? The date of the filename appears to be the same as when I last touched it. I don't remember what my final timestamp was to compare that.
Anyway, does anyone have any advice to give me? I'm feeling like this guy doesn't have a chance but maybe I'm being naive.
Please help!
meels
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....I'm not a web guy ....but I assume it indicates what the site was like on that date. ...I've only just played around there, setting my google page to the original and stuff like that.
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ASKER
Thanks for all the great comments. I am tempted to just let him sue me because I totally agree that he doesn't have a case. Yes, his site sucks and right now I feel like he's trying to get some free work out of me to "fix" his site. I fixed a web site link that was pointing to a porn site (somehow he says it got there?). I charged a minimum half-hour work. I offered to post his original source code but he refuses to send it to me. He only wants to meet me in person in his office. I've actually never met the guy because it was such a quick transaction over the phone. I was done in about 10 minutes. I also still don't get why he waited over 3 months to make such a big deal about it. Why did he say he approved my work and send me a check?
Thanks for all your answers. I'm not sure how I'm going to award points. I feel like I want to split them amongst all of you. I'll leave this open a little bit longer than close it.
Cheers,
meels
Thanks for all your answers. I'm not sure how I'm going to award points. I feel like I want to split them amongst all of you. I'll leave this open a little bit longer than close it.
Cheers,
meels
ASKER
Me again...so here is his latest response:
"Im not interested in suing anyone, but if you wont meet with me and see what happened I have no other choice but to get it fixed and send you the bill along with all fees incurred. I dont know what you did but its obvious that the problem started after you accessed the site. You can help me fix the problem on your time and I will absorb the thousands of dollars in missed sales or you can get "something in the mail". Im easy to work with, just work with me........"
I KNOW my URL fix did not cause all of the problems he's talking about. Doesn't it sound like he's trying to get more work out of me for free? If he just wants it fixed why doesn't he email me the source code? Just the travel time is almost 2 hours out of my day. Maybe I'm just being stubborn but I really don't appreciate him ACCUSING me of causing his lost sales. It would be one thing if he asked me to fix a problem he has. If it turned out that the problem truly was caused by me (which it could not have been) then I would totally waive any fees.
I took this emergency job as a favor to this ISP that was swamped and I did it so quickly I didn't make this customer sign a contract, which includes a clause about me not being responsible for lost sales. That is in there just as a boiler plate item, not that I ever thought anyone would actually go after me. I guess it's a good lesson to use a contract for even the stupidest little web jobs!
ugh!
meels
"Im not interested in suing anyone, but if you wont meet with me and see what happened I have no other choice but to get it fixed and send you the bill along with all fees incurred. I dont know what you did but its obvious that the problem started after you accessed the site. You can help me fix the problem on your time and I will absorb the thousands of dollars in missed sales or you can get "something in the mail". Im easy to work with, just work with me........"
I KNOW my URL fix did not cause all of the problems he's talking about. Doesn't it sound like he's trying to get more work out of me for free? If he just wants it fixed why doesn't he email me the source code? Just the travel time is almost 2 hours out of my day. Maybe I'm just being stubborn but I really don't appreciate him ACCUSING me of causing his lost sales. It would be one thing if he asked me to fix a problem he has. If it turned out that the problem truly was caused by me (which it could not have been) then I would totally waive any fees.
I took this emergency job as a favor to this ISP that was swamped and I did it so quickly I didn't make this customer sign a contract, which includes a clause about me not being responsible for lost sales. That is in there just as a boiler plate item, not that I ever thought anyone would actually go after me. I guess it's a good lesson to use a contract for even the stupidest little web jobs!
ugh!
meels
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Yeah ..just e-mail him the dated links to the changed websites. Maybe he's incredibly dumb when it comes to computers and one of his kids has been trying to help out. .....or he's a liar trying to scare you. Either way, I don't see much point in trying to engage the guy in a rational discussion.
Out of his own ignorance, he may actually think that you did cause the problem - and his comments clearly demonstrate an ignorance about websites. I agree with phileoca - his site is not very impressive, I can't imagine how he's getting much in sales from it anyway. It's also a one page site - why doesn't he just take 30 seconds and fix the typos?
In your position, I would probably talk to him on the phone to give him a chance to show you what he thinks you changed (you can each look at the site from where you are). If it's easy to fix, I might fix it as a courtesy, but not if he's accusing you and threatening you. Tell him that he clearly has no idea what he's talking about and that you'd be foolish to help him since the last time you did he ended up threatening you.
In your position, I would probably talk to him on the phone to give him a chance to show you what he thinks you changed (you can each look at the site from where you are). If it's easy to fix, I might fix it as a courtesy, but not if he's accusing you and threatening you. Tell him that he clearly has no idea what he's talking about and that you'd be foolish to help him since the last time you did he ended up threatening you.
ASKER
Burbble,
Thanks for explaining that. I didn't get it until I read your post. That's a cool site! I wish it showed December 2004 but this is pretty good.
Thanks a ton!
meels
Thanks for explaining that. I didn't get it until I read your post. That's a cool site! I wish it showed December 2004 but this is pretty good.
Thanks a ton!
meels
ASKER
humeniuk,
originally we talked on the phone and i offered to restore his site to the original code and upload it ASAP but he insists that i go to his office so he can show me the before and after. if he worked 10 min. away i might be more open to going to his office but 40 min. one way, and plus this guy is starting to creep me out, i prefer not to meet him at his office. i prefer to just fix the site at my own desk. plus, i don't have a lot of time to leave my computer for hours to help this threatening guy.
i'm going to let this sit for a day then decide what to do. everyone's input has been really helpful,
meels
originally we talked on the phone and i offered to restore his site to the original code and upload it ASAP but he insists that i go to his office so he can show me the before and after. if he worked 10 min. away i might be more open to going to his office but 40 min. one way, and plus this guy is starting to creep me out, i prefer not to meet him at his office. i prefer to just fix the site at my own desk. plus, i don't have a lot of time to leave my computer for hours to help this threatening guy.
i'm going to let this sit for a day then decide what to do. everyone's input has been really helpful,
meels
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I agree, meels. There's no reason to go to his office.
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^lmao
I would recommend The Big Show ;-)
ASKER
you are all making me laugh! i like sending the bodybuilder over. okay, now, how should i award points on this? i really feel like everyone has been super helpful and just really awesome sounding boards.
- meels
- meels
ASKER
here's another response this morning:
"If I dont hear from you today Im proceeding with an alternative......."
i haven't responded to the email i shared with you all earlier in this thread, which he sent yesterday. i'll offer to upload his original source code one more time otherwise it looks like being the president of my high school debate team and minoring in political science will come in handy.
- meels
"If I dont hear from you today Im proceeding with an alternative......."
i haven't responded to the email i shared with you all earlier in this thread, which he sent yesterday. i'll offer to upload his original source code one more time otherwise it looks like being the president of my high school debate team and minoring in political science will come in handy.
- meels
just split em however. =)
even steven?
even steven?
ASKER
i'll try to split all the points but i want to report back what ends up happening. if i award the points does that automatically close this issue? maybe the moderator can advise me on this?
meels
meels
If you 'close' the question, it will still be here for your review and you will still be able to post updates in it :)
ASKER
OK, I awarded and closed this question. I just wanted to let you know I only awarded a "B" to everyone because I didn't end up getting any official legal advice from anyone that had specific experiences with this type of situation, which is what I was hoping to get originally, but I got great guidance from all of you. By ignoring this guy I hope to call this guy's bluff but if it does get to court I will definitely let you know what happens.
Thanks for your help,
meels
Thanks for your help,
meels
Good luck, meels. Hope it works out.
=) actually, you did get Legal advice. lol.
>>We're not "legally" allowed to offer you legal advice as it's called "practicing law without a license".
but make sure you report back, especially if you send a body builder down there to wet his pants. Heck, if you film it, i'll host the video on my website. :-)
>>We're not "legally" allowed to offer you legal advice as it's called "practicing law without a license".
but make sure you report back, especially if you send a body builder down there to wet his pants. Heck, if you film it, i'll host the video on my website. :-)
ASKER
phileoca,
sorry, i guess i did get legal advice but i originally wondered if there was some law protecting web designers or some precedented case i could reference to help me out. one my customers in a private investigator, maybe i can get him to outfit the bodybuilder with one of those hidden cameras in a necklace. i'll definitely send you the video! :-)
i'm hoping this continues to be a laughing matter. i know i'm taking the risk of this turning really ugly but i'm just going to have faith in my work and the evidence i've racked up against him.
lol
sorry, i guess i did get legal advice but i originally wondered if there was some law protecting web designers or some precedented case i could reference to help me out. one my customers in a private investigator, maybe i can get him to outfit the bodybuilder with one of those hidden cameras in a necklace. i'll definitely send you the video! :-)
i'm hoping this continues to be a laughing matter. i know i'm taking the risk of this turning really ugly but i'm just going to have faith in my work and the evidence i've racked up against him.
lol
Good Luck dude!
ASKER